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What constitutes a "tour" driver and a "tour" fairway wood?

 

For a tour driver, is it just a shorter length, typically 44.5"? Different head?

 

For a tour fairway, is it a smaller head than the regular version, e.g. smaller cc 3 wood head than the normal 3 wood head? Different shaft length?

Driver: Cobra LTDx 10.5° Helium Nanocore

Fairway: Cobra RADSPEED 18.5° Motore X

Hybrids: Titleist TSi2 21°, 24° TENSEI AV RAW Blue

Utility Iron: Titleist 718 AP1 24° Recoil 780

Irons: Titleist 718 AP1 AMT Red

Wedges: Vokey SM8 48°, 54° Dynamic Gold; SM7 60° Modus3

Putter: Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

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It depends. Circa 2009 when most of the drivers were still adjustable, the pro or tour drivers tended to have shorter shafts, and a head with a slightly higher CoG to prevent the ball from ballooning. Also, the pro or tour heads often had a face angle set 1* open to prevent hooks. Some of the heads were less than 460 CC in size. A couple of times I played a tour head with an R-flex shaft.

 

Since then, modern pro or tour driver heads have names such as Callaway LS (low spin) and earlier SubZero, the Ping LST, and the TaylorMade StealthPlus. These have smaller heads, neutral weighting (no fade or draw bias), and launch the ball lower and with less spin. Lower/less spin helps players with high clubhead speed who worry about ballooning tee shots.

 

Rogue ST Max Golf Clubs    
Drivers Fairways    
ST Max ST Max    
ST Max Draw ST Max Draw    
ST Max LS ST Max LS    
ST Max ◊◊◊ LS - -    

 

In the Rogue ST family the three models highlighted in red are the pro or tour models. The ST Max ◊◊◊ LS an even smaller head than the base LS, a the toe is lower to ground.

 

While I have used pro or tour driver heads in the past, I never had good play from tour 3Ws or 4Ws. Just couldn't get the ball up. So for past seasons I have played some version of standard-headed 4W + 7W.  Remember, from a hardware standpoint, the primary factor determining launch of a golf club is its loft, and head design. Shaft is used for fine-tuning.

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What's In The Bag (As of April 2023, post-MAX change + new putter)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5° (base loft); weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  PutterΨSeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT, 33" shaft

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

    * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

     Ψ  Backups:

  • Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip |
  • Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. weight removed) |
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So it's not necessarily true that tour drivers are characterized by shorter shafts - and tour fairway woods are characterized by smaller heads?

 

It's more that if it's a low spin model it's branded as a tour driver/FW?

Driver: Cobra LTDx 10.5° Helium Nanocore

Fairway: Cobra RADSPEED 18.5° Motore X

Hybrids: Titleist TSi2 21°, 24° TENSEI AV RAW Blue

Utility Iron: Titleist 718 AP1 24° Recoil 780

Irons: Titleist 718 AP1 AMT Red

Wedges: Vokey SM8 48°, 54° Dynamic Gold; SM7 60° Modus3

Putter: Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

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It's always seemed to me that deeper faces, wight forward, smaller head sizes, have always characterized "Tour Issue" woods.

 

Sometimes, however, the difference could be as insignificant as a "paint break" allowing lie angle to be changed.

 

Honestly, these days I'd think a bonded model of any OEM driver would be the ultimate "tour issue" club.

Cleveland Launcher HB 10.5* - Stock Miyazaki C. Kua 50 Stiff
Callaway Diablo Octane Tour 13* - Aldila NV 75 Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 15* - Accra Dymatch M5 75
Mizuno F-50 18* - Stock Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Hybrid 21* - Aldila NV 85 Stiff
Callaway RAZR Tour Hybrid 24* - Stock XStiff
5 - PW Cleveland CG7 Tour Black Pearl - DGSL S300
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 50* DG Wedge
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 54* DG Wedge
Callaway X-Series JAWS Slate CC 58* Stock Wedge
Odyssey White Ice #7 - Golf Pride Oversize

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These days it usually just means the OEM has multiple variants of a product, and the "tour" or "pro" is usually slightly more open faced, smaller footprint, and likely comes with a mid or lower launching shaft

 

Thats usually the gist

Srixon ZX5 w/PX Hzrdus Red 60

Srixon ZX 15 w/PX Hzrdus Red 70

Tour Edge C723 21* w/PX hzrdus black 80

Titleist T150 4-AW w/PX LZ 6.0

Titleist Jet Black 54/60 with PX LZ 6.0

Deschamps Crisp Antique 

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The Tour drivers and woods I've messed with tend to be lower spin and may have some unseen design variables compared to retail version, maybe a TX tour shaft.  Often Tour ONLY drivers are prototypes that never make it to mass production.

  • TSR2 10° Ventus Velo TR Blue 58S
  • TSR2 15° Talamonti PD80R
  • T200 17' 2i Tensei AV Raw White Hybrid 95S
  • T100 3i & 4i MMT 85S
  • T100 5i to 9i MMT 105S
  • T100 PW, SM9 F52/12, M58/8, PX Wedge 120S
  • SC/CA Monterey
  • DASH -ProV1x
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Nike Vr Tour

2010ish 420cc glued just a great product. I found one with a Steel Shaft. Was a Radar in the fairway on a Team Golf Day i went to...others were far longer left n right. I was Mr Fairway...and because im on Wrx i sold it........909d2 10.5 is another beauty.......currently 905T 10.5....so i think these have all been sucessful On Tour.

2020 18 July mid winterNZ
Ping Rapture 2006 10.5
Nike VrS 3wood
Callaway Razr Edge5 wood

MP100=33 9876 5/mp63
54     RTX2
60     RTX2
ProPlatinum NewportTwo
2002 325gram +8.NewGrip
Dont hesitate to buy one!






 

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15 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

It depends. Circa 2009 when most of the drivers were still adjustable, the pro or tour drivers tended to have shorter shafts, and a head with a slightly higher CoG to prevent the ball from ballooning. Also, the pro or tour heads often had a face angle set 1* open to prevent hooks. Some of the heads were less than 460 CC in size. A couple of times I played a tour head with an R-flex shaft.

 

Since then, modern pro or tour driver heads have names such as Callaway LS (low spin) and earlier SubZero, the Ping LST, and the TaylorMade StealthPlus. These have smaller heads, neutral weighting (no fade or draw bias), and launch the ball lower and with less spin. Lower/less spin helps players with high clubhead speed who worry about ballooning tee shots.

 

Rogue ST Max Golf Clubs    
Drivers Fairways    
ST Max ST Max    
ST Max Draw ST Max Draw    
ST Max LS ST Max LS    
ST Max ◊◊◊ LS - -    

 

In the Rogue ST family the three models highlighted in red are the pro or tour models. The ST Max ◊◊◊ LS an even smaller head than the base LS, a the toe is lower to ground.

 

While I have used pro or tour driver heads in the past, I never had good play from tour 3Ws or 4Ws. Just couldn't get the ball up. So for past seasons I have played some version of standard-headed 4W + 7W.  Remember, from a hardware standpoint, the primary factor determining launch of a golf club is its loft, and head design. Shaft is used for fine-tuning.

There are a few others as well in the Rogue ST line.  Used to be an article at the Callaway website that went into detail on some of the more esoteric offerings (I recall a TD-S driver head, and a few additional choices in FWs) and naturally I can't find it.

 

For me, my TD-T 3w launches lower (almost too low on course, truth be told) than the ST-LS I demo'd.  Different shafts between the two heads, but AV White keeps it happily running forever.  With spins (indoors, Trackman, no dots or radar balls, so giant grain of salt) in the 3250-3500, launch 9-10.5 range.  The LS 3W launched like a Saturn V from outdoor grass, which was giggle-worthy at the time. 

 

I'm happy enough with it so far.

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I remember the guys at txg said the tour versions are actually not too different than what is out in the market. It’s that they pick out the ones they deem to be the highest quality. Not sure if true.

I remember back in the day, taylormade had the “tp” version (bsg days) but that was the “retail tour” and they also had another version just called “tour”. I believe it started with the r580 or something? Too far back to recall. 

Driver: Mizuno ST-Z 220 Atmos Tour Spec Black

3 wood: Callaway Rogue LS Tensei series white

Hybrid: Mizuno CLK Speeder HB

Irons: Srixon z785 Modus3

50: Cleveland zip core 

56: Vokey sm8

60: Vokey sm9

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1 hour ago, Kenner300 said:

I remember the guys at txg said the tour versions are actually not too different than what is out in the market. It’s that they pick out the ones they deem to be the highest quality. Not sure if true.

I remember back in the day, taylormade had the “tp” version (bsg days) but that was the “retail tour” and they also had another version just called “tour”. I believe it started with the r580 or something? Too far back to recall. 

Depends on the brand. 

 

Most Taylormade "tour" heads are what you described. Regular retail heads that have been fully measured to verify all specs. 

 

Most Taylormade "TP" Products available at retail were regular clubs with "real deal" shafts at an upcharge, usually the heads were marked TP even though they didn't vary. 

 

Other brands like Callaway does indeed make some "tour only" clubs like drivers and fairways with different head sizes, shapes, and profiles that you can't easily get as a regular consumer. I remember a while ago on Callaway pre-owned Callaway released a limited number of tour only Mavrik sub-zero 7w heads. Neat stuff

 

 

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This varies quite a bit based on time period, brand, and model as we can see by the variety of answers. 

Generally speaking the things that have been available as retail products with "Tour" in the name have been a mishmash of generally tour-like specs. Different head sizes (often smaller), CG adjustments (sometimes higher, sometimes lower, often fade bias), visual adjustments (paint lines/breaks, more open face angles, flatter lie angles, scoring lines etc). 


In terms of tour issue/tour only stuff, some of the above applies but with brands like Callaway you'll end up with an even more complicated mishmash with several design iterations on single models and one off prototypes etc. Taylormade has also had noticeable differences in their bonded fairway heads with different grooves, lie angles, face angles, hotmelt ports etc that the retail heads don't have. That seems to vary year to year though as the current Stealth bonded fairways appear no different than the retail ones, whereas the M2/M4/M6/SIM bonded fairways all had noticeably different tour issue models. Other brands like PING and Titleist seem to have no differences other than serial numbers and occasionally a one-off loft or something like that. 

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Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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5 hours ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

There are a few others as well in the Rogue ST line.  Used to be an article at the Callaway website that went into detail on some of the more esoteric offerings (I recall a TD-S driver head, and a few additional choices in FWs) and naturally I can't find it.

 

irons-ta-x-prototype___1.png?sfrm=png&sw=500I've heard about these models, and it's often difficult to tell if these are general sales items or specialty only. Can everyday golfers gain access to these models?

 

On the iron side of things, I remember when the Razr family of irons came out. Big debate among Callaway watchers was whether the Razr Prototype irons were general sales or pro only.

What's In The Bag (As of April 2023, post-MAX change + new putter)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5° (base loft); weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  PutterΨSeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT, 33" shaft

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

    * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

     Ψ  Backups:

  • Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip |
  • Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. weight removed) |
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1 hour ago, ChipNRun said:

 

irons-ta-x-prototype___1.png?sfrm=png&sw=500I've heard about these models, and it's often difficult to tell if these are general sales items or specialty only. Can everyday golfers gain access to these models?

 

On the iron side of things, I remember when the Razr family of irons came out. Big debate among Callaway watchers was whether the Razr Prototype irons were general sales or pro only.

I'm about as everyday as it gets...  Basically, I liked the Trip Diamond LS (or S, I forget) Driver head I demo'd, which launched lower than the Rogue ST-LS.  I liked the ST-LS 3W, but it ballooned too high.  So, I ask, "What about a trip diamond FW?  Would that work the same as the driver did?" 

 

They don't make one.  "But, but Rahm has one?!  I've seen it!"  (LOL).  Yeah, and I ain't him.  Nonetheless I saw a post here about them, and that fairwaygolf had some for sale (though with the 'wrong' serial numbers TA, instead of TC.  Whatever.)  So I bought one, in best club 'ho fashion.  It indeed lowered my ball flight.  Considerably. 

 

Plus the ball speeds I've measured (154-158) are uncomfortably close to my driver.  Which means I need to get that driver efficiency up and finally watch "Drive For Dough", instead of feeling like I've accomplished something by just ordering it...

 

But that's how I found mine.

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I agree with what @Valtiel, @LUXOR54 and others have noted about tour clubs and quality control.

 

In recent generations (say last 10 years), there is very little different from tour versions (for example. where "T" is present in the serial number of a Titleist wood) vs non, for most brands.  Other than one thing - that the club in question matched the spec sheet.

 

So you can count on a 9* tour driver having 9* of loft (maybe +/- a few percentage points of a degree). Versus an off-the-rack 9* driver that might have loft of 8.3* or 9.6* etc.  Granted, these days with adjustable hosels, that variance is less of a concern IF you get the club measured and you know what you are starting with.

 

The main issue, as I see it, is that we mortals usually don't have access to the spec sheet, so we don't always know the starting point. 

 

I have had several tour-issue clubs.  Most recently a 12* 917D2 that I used for several years as a 2W (with a shorter/heavier shaft).  It only left the bag when its idiot owner let the cap on the end of the head weight slide back down into the weight port, where it then fell into the head and is still rattling around.  Grrrr.  I can't tell you what was different about it, but i shot my best rounds when it came out and driver stayed in the bag.  

Titleist TSR3 10*: LA Golf Olyss 65S

Titleist TSi2 16.5*: Aldila Rogue Silver 125 70S

Titleist TSR3 19*:  LA Golf Ozik Black Tie 105S

Titleist TSi2 22*: Aldila Tour Blue 105TX

Grindworks PR-202 6-PW: Nippon Modus3 120X

Edel SMS 48*V / 60*T:  Nippon Modus 125 Wedge 

Grindworks Barrett 52* / 56*: Nippon Modus 125 Wedge 

Scotty Cameron 2014 Select Fastback

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"Tour issue" drivers and fairways are usually slightly to very open when set to neutral setting.  The size, cc wise, may be smaller.  COG and MOI might be different and it may spin less. 

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Callaway AI Smoke Paradym 💎💎💎9* - Tour AD VF-7TX

TM SIM ti 15* - Diamana GT 80TX

TM Tour Issue Rescue 11 TP Deep Face Proto 16* - Ventus Black HB 9TX

New Level NLU-01 21* - KBS Hybrid Proto 105X

New Level 623-M 5-PW - MMT 125TX

Miura Tour 54* HB - KBS 610 125 S+, New Level SPN forged M-grind 58* - KBS Tour 130X

Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2

 

 

 

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Theres nothing different from a retail and tour driver - within the exact same model - except the specs being available to be hand picked.

 

Now there are sometimes models not available to retail but theres nothing to compare them to so they just live on their own as separate heads with different aspects. Theres any number of things that can be different about them to achieve a desired result.

PRDYMTC TOUR  9.8° + CQ6 / MVRKTC 15° + UB6 / MVRKTC 18° + UB8 G430 26°@25+ IZ95 / FRGD TEC5-G + MODUS115 / MD5TC / SPDR EXTC + GPS

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I'm a little surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet, but some tour drivers/woods have significantly different faces.  Either by thickness, strength, or design in general.  

 

I had the good fortune to play golf with the lead engineer at Callaway responsible for the Rogue ST Triple D.  I talked to him about a lot of things, but one of the things that truly stood out was his remark about some of the "Tour Only" variations from manufacturers using entirely different metals in some of the driver faces.  He also remarked that this would be to the detriment of performance for 99% of golfers and even many tour pro's.  Pro's pound the center of the face so often that the retail version of the face would actually become too hot and non conforming within only a couple of months.  Hence, the need for a stronger and more durable face material.  Off topic, but also a reason why many of us have older drivers that perform better than new ones..  We finally break in the face after a few years--driver becomes hotter and more forgiving...

 

Also, the tour only driver faces can lose upward of 5-8 MPH on MIDDLE strikes below 115 MPH.  

 

Anyway, one of my favorite rounds of golf of the year.

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3 hours ago, B.Easy said:

 

 

I had the good fortune to play golf with the lead engineer at Callaway responsible for the Rogue ST Triple D.  ...  Pro's pound the center of the face so often that the retail version of the face would actually become too hot and non conforming within only a couple of months.  Hence, the need for a stronger and more durable face material.  Off topic, but also a reason why many of us have older drivers that perform better than new ones..  We finally break in the face after a few years--driver becomes hotter and more forgiving...

 

This is a really interesting point that I've wondered about myself - especially with the resurgence of carbon fiber faces in drivers. The reason I'm curious about this effect is that I used to coach competitive youth baseball and there was a phase about a 15-20 years ago where "rolling" bats was a big thing. The gist of this was that folks noticed that the composite bats got noticeably hotter as they broke in with repeated hitting, so some enterprising companies got into the game of rolling the bats in a special press to "artificially" break in the bat to the hotter state. This all got clamped down on relatively quickly and while rolling/shaving services still exist, it's now explicitly banned by all youth baseball organizations so only those wanting to explicitly cheat are still doing it. Earlier, it wasn't so well known or regulated, so technically it wasn't illegal.

 

So, I wonder if composite club faces exhibit this same effect? The comments from the Callaway engineer seems to indicate it may well do so even in metal faces. Are clubs ever checked on Tour after they're put into play? (I know face shaving services exist, but that's another topic..) Has anybody heard of Stealth drivers getting hotter as they age?

 

 

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