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Man, I am still flipping, but less... (Video)


Mr_Wolfe
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I have been struggling with my flip for some time. I am working on shortening my swing, but I seem to release the club early. I "think" I am getting forward shaft lean at contact, but only when I really focus on getting my shoulders through impact. I tend to get my hips through and my arms follow creating a flip. I think it is getting better, but would love any insight on my swing. Will post a rear video on as well. Thanks for any info.

 

Mr. Wolfe

 

Edited by Mr_Wolfe
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Pretty good setup, but dead legs-too much arms going back- is primary issue on back swing affecting club head routing back and through.   But you stay in the pocket pretty good on the return, for what you're feeding it,  but you're so far ahead the club head has no choice but to kick outside the hands a little.   Take club head in and up going back with torso-shoulders and legs and hips will respond as needed, or reverse it starting the lower body first going back in the same manner.   Your choice.

Edited by RonJon
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55 minutes ago, RonJon said:

Pretty good setup, but dead legs-too much arms going back- is primary issue on back swing affecting club head routing back and through.   But you stay in the pocket pretty good on the return, for what you're feeding it,  but you're so far ahead the club head has no choice but to kick outside the hands a little.   Take club head in and up going back with torso-shoulders and legs and hips will respond as needed, or reverse it starting the lower body first going back in the same manner.   Your choice.

 

Thank you for your observation.

 

Mr. Wolfe

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Your head (and whole upper body, really) moves a good 6"-8" forward by impact from where it starts at set up. The head moves down and back from where it starts at impact in the best players' swings. With you getting your whole upper body moving toward the target like you do, you effectively move the ball farther back in your stance, and so you're really "falsely" getting your hands ahead of the ball at impact when you do (and with no feel of compressing the ball, I'd bet).

 

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15 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

Your head (and whole upper body, really) moves a good 6"-8" forward by impact from where it starts at set up. The head moves down and back from where it starts at impact in the best players' swings. With you getting your whole upper body moving toward the target like you do, you effectively move the ball farther back in your stance, and so you're really "falsely" getting your hands ahead of the ball at impact when you do (and with no feel of compressing the ball, I'd bet).

 

 

Good point. I am working on getting my weight to my lead side before impact, but may be over doing it? I also notice that I am not getting enough hip turn. I need more depth. As far as compressing the ball, I feel really good compression about 3-4 times a round so you would be correct. My standard 7i goes around 160 yards and I when I get that nice compression, it is closer to 170 yards.

 

Mr. Wolfe

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35 minutes ago, Mr_Wolfe said:

 

Good point. I am working on getting my weight to my lead side before impact, but may be over doing it? I also notice that I am not getting enough hip turn. I need more depth. As far as compressing the ball, I feel really good compression about 3-4 times a round so you would be correct. My standard 7i goes around 160 yards and I when I get that nice compression, it is closer to 170 yards.

 

Mr. Wolfe

 

The weight should go there before impact, but not by way of the head and shoulders moving out in front of the ball. Consider how a hockey player does a one-footed stop without falling forward -- all of his weight/momentum has to stay behind the skate blade as he gradually posts up on that leg. Pitchers, batters, kickers are all "staying behind" their front, posted foot into the strike/swing/throw. The hip bump in the swing should give you a head start in loading into that front leg, allowing your upper body to remain back and to load up into it and not through it/over top of it.

 

You're swaying and have very little "behind" the ball at impact.

 

 

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Far too much upper upper movement towards the target going back . Notice how much your head has moved laterally toward the target  going back . This leads to far too much lateral lower torso movement going down. 
SUGGESTIONS 

1. Your stance is too wide . Wider stances encourage more lateral motion and less rotational motion during the swing. Narrow your stance - try practicing hitting balls with your feet about 3 inches part . Initially You will find that it is difficult to retain your balance . In a real sense , rotation is the enemy of lateral motion. 

2. Setup with your lead foot flared more out towards the target . This will encourage lead hip external hip rotation ( and associated movement of the lead knee) going down 

3. During your backswing , your head has rotated considerably going back . This is not an error since most golfers have to rotate their heads in order to make a full shoulder turn . But it can encourage your lateral movement towards the target going back . . To simplify your head movement , rotate your head at setup ala Jack Nicklaus . 

 

Edited by golfarb1
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Thank you all for the great insight. I will continue to work on this. Last year, I was getting stuck behind the ball and wasn't getting my weight shifted to my lead side. Because of this, I started working on step drills and others to get to my lead side. I think I have now created a new fault. 😞

 

Mr. Wolfe

Edited by Mr_Wolfe
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33 minutes ago, Mr_Wolfe said:

I think this is the video that got me moving toward the ball at impact. Obviously, I am doing something wrong.

 

Mr. Wolfe

M

His issue is that he never shift to the right in the takeaway - so he never recenters but co tinues to move toward the target - you do this too but more exaggerated.    So you are doing what he says.

 

For me, here is a better explanation.  Can se dr kwon for additional drills off his youtube page - see the playlist.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_SXD4MFBJ7/

 

another example - tab shows iron in slo mo    Amg a few years back posted lots of instagram clips of pros from way back all shifting similarly.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/ClKAlwny9oz/?hl=en

 

composite from amg

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bgozuoeh0Cf/?hl=en

Edited by glk
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14 minutes ago, glk said:

His issue is that he never shift to the right in the takeaway - so he never recenters but co tinues to move toward the target - you do this too but more exaggerated.    So you are doing what he says.

 

For me, here is a better explanation.  Can se dr kwon for additional drills off his youtube page - see the playlist.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_SXD4MFBJ7/

 

Yeah, and I almost feel like I am "falling forward" at impact. Whenever I see better players, they are almost leaning back at impact. I am guessing that is from posting their front leg and using the ground? Ben Hogan does that for sure.

 

Mr. Wolfe

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38 minutes ago, Mr_Wolfe said:

I think this is the video that got me moving toward the ball at impact. Obviously, I am doing something wrong.

 

Mr. Wolfe

M

 

This is garbage, don't tell him I said that. People end up tying themselves into knots because they are too focused on hitting the ball with their pivots instead of using their hands to throw the club on the proper plane. 

 

 

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I am trying so many things right now. Monte, I might need some online lessons. I am hell-bent on being a better player next year. I "think" a lot of this swing is decent, but for the life of me, I cannot get my arms ahead of my hips. Damn it. Fastest hips in the north here...

 

Mr. Wolfe

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18 minutes ago, Mr_Wolfe said:

I am trying so many things right now. Monte, I might need some online lessons. I am hell-bent on being a better player next year. I "think" a lot of this swing is decent, but for the life of me, I cannot get my arms ahead of my hips. Damn it. Fastest hips in the north here...

 

Mr. Wolfe


Your head moves way forward on the back swing and then moves way forward on the downswing as well. Your head is so far ahead at impact vs. address that arms will be behind no matter what. You also get external with the right arm and clubhead kicks out which causes even more flipping and hands behind. 

Edited by MK7Golf21
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6 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:


Your head moves way forward on the back swing and then moves way forward on the downswing as well. Your head is so far ahead at impact vs. address that arms will be behind no matter what. You also get external with the right arm and clubhead kicks out which causes even more flipping and hands behind. 

 

Makes sense. I am flipping because my body is too far in front of the ball.

 

Mr. Wolfe

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I'm about as far from being a golf swing instructor as you can imagine. I am also leery of videos in the wild that suggest one do this, that or the other "magic move". But I've also struggled with weight shift, rotation and extension and this drill has helped me quite a bit. Maybe it has something to offer you as well. I rotate backwards trying to keep my head steady and lead shoulder down and then rotate as shown trying to end up with trail shoulder down and belt buckle extended towards the target with chest back and weight on lead foot. I have a long way to go before I get this fully incorporated into my swing but maybe it will help you, too.

 

 

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On 12/2/2022 at 8:07 AM, Mr_Wolfe said:

 

Could you please elaborate? Too strong?

 

Mr. Wolfe


Positionally your hands are VERY far apart. This is a common initial setup for kids as they need that separation to allow for more control with both hands until they are strong enough. As an adult though this sticks around almost exclusively as a means to compensate for swing faults that require a lot of hand action to save, namely the position that Fuscinator and Monte identified. With your hands further apart its easier to flip, and you need to flip to save that lagging P6 position. The issue is the chicken/egg problem this creates as "fixing" your grip and getting your hands joined together correctly will reduce your ability to flip, and thus you'll hit worse shots initially until the flaws causing the P6 sequencing issues are addressed. 

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2 hours ago, Valtiel said:


Positionally your hands are VERY far apart. This is a common initial setup for kids as they need that separation to allow for more control with both hands until they are strong enough. As an adult though this sticks around almost exclusively as a means to compensate for swing faults that require a lot of hand action to save, namely the position that Fuscinator and Monte identified. With your hands further apart its easier to flip, and you need to flip to save that lagging P6 position. The issue is the chicken/egg problem this creates as "fixing" your grip and getting your hands joined together correctly will reduce your ability to flip, and thus you'll hit worse shots initially until the flaws causing the P6 sequencing issues are addressed. 

 

I am not disagreeing with you because I always thought the same thing. Every time I watch a video of my swing, I noticed that my hands look like they are apart. Here is a picture of my grip. I am not sure what I am doing wrong that look apart, but would love any input. Please ignore the grip pressure, I was holding the club for a long time while my daughter was fiddling with the camera to get pictures. lol

 

Also, I do have short, fat fingers.

 

Mr. Wolfe

IMG_1966 copy.jpg

IMG_1969 copy.jpg

Edited by Mr_Wolfe
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On 12/3/2022 at 10:00 AM, Mr_Wolfe said:

I think this is the video that got me moving toward the ball at impact. Obviously, I am doing something wrong.

 

Mr. Wolfe

M


Terrible video, guy totally misunderstood recentering. His demonstration his head stays steady on backswing and then says the head has to then recenter on downswing and continues to move his head way ahead of address position, how is that recentering? Throws Rory name out as his model, lol.

 

OP, watch this video. Does it look like Rory’s head does any of that nonsense? Tell me what it does. Then watch you swing and compare.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mr_Wolfe said:

 

I am not disagreeing with you because I always thought the same thing. Every time I watch a video of my swing, I noticed that my hands look like they are apart. Here is a picture of my grip. I am not sure what I am doing wrong that look apart, but would love any input. Please ignore the grip pressure, I was holding the club for a long time while my daughter was fiddling with the camera to get pictures. lol

 

Also, I do have short, fat fingers.

 

Mr. Wolfe

IMG_1966 copy.jpg

IMG_1969 copy.jpg


This is the area that would be considered abnormal:

image.png.ae0976d49d16f01644ddbaf87f25eb4e.png

Your left thumb is very very "short" likely due to how/where you're gripping with your top hand. A pretty standard starting point has your right middle finger on your left thumb knuckle and your right ring finger on the side of the thumb tip, like we with Tiger's grip:

image.png.a46178558fa4088d782df0fb5fbbcb52.png

Many pros actually go much further than this as well, guys like DJ/Morikawa/Spieth/Simpson and others with left thumbs visible in the "V" of their right hand:

image.png.e7b230ff73d10e4e92c82696e891f294.png

There are more extreme though and absolutely not a recommended starting point.

That "V" your right hand forms is a little strange as well in that your thumb is quite off the grip. The connection between your right thumb and forefinger is an important point of strength in the grip and your setup looks like it weakens that. Make sure that you're holding the club with those two fingers in such a way that you can support and even lightly swing it with just that connection.

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12 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:


Terrible video, guy totally misunderstood recentering. His demonstration his head stays steady on backswing and then says the head has to then recenter on downswing and continues to move his head way ahead of address position, how is that recentering? Throws Rory name out as his model, lol.

 

OP, watch this video. Does it look like Rory’s head does any of that nonsense? Tell me what it does. Then watch you swing and compare.

 

 

 

I most certainly see the difference, thank you.


Mr. Wolfe

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