Slow Play Solutions - feedback requested

[ArtMBgolf]

On 12/29/2022 at 1:21 PM, jdubya13 said:

Hello GolfWRX Family,

 

Reaching out to get your feedback on solutions for slow play, as our morning group is putting together a “slow play policy” to make sure we stick to 4 hours or less.

 

A little about our group… On a typical weekend morning, we’ll have anywhere from 4 to 8 groups of guys that range from plus handicaps all the way to 36, but most being in the 4-12 range.  We get the first block of tee times regardless of what’s going on, so we’re spoiled.  

  
You received all the usual strategies and situations, that are mostly pointed at the
entire course.    Whatever rules you make up, your luxury of the first block of tee times, is 
something you can threaten to take away from slow players and embolden fast players to 
speak up to the slow players.    While it may be difficult to suspend full club members, you 
can remove offenders from your early AM group.      
  
Looking for balls that should not need a search can be avoided if everyone watches all 
shots.    I plan to watch all shots.   On the rare occasion when I could not watch, I find 
that often the golfer who hit has poor vision and the other 2 golfers were not looking. 
 
Be in the first group or have someone you trust in the first group, stay at the 18th hole
while your other groups finish, watching which groups are behind and who your suspect
slow player is.  See if that repeats.         
      

[Hacker76]

On 12/30/2022 at 9:46 PM, TM_HOYER said:

The people I was playing with and I had enough of his behavior. He was also forewarned this was going to happen if he did not get in the cart. The others I was playing with and the people playing behind us cheered when I did this. Not much he could do.

I'm not speaking for him I'm speaking for me. I spent way to much time, energy and money on my clubs for someone to disrespect my property like that and I would've clocked you and you would think twice before messing with my possessions again. 

 

[st1800e]

On 12/30/2022 at 6:26 PM, sratacik said:

We have a fast play window for Friday-Sunday mornings….3:45 max rounds

Nice!

[st1800e]

3 hours ago, Hacker76 said:

I'm not speaking for him I'm speaking for me. I spent way to much time, energy and money on my clubs for someone to disrespect my property like that and I would've clocked you and you would think twice before messing with my possessions again. 

 

Agreed, some direct conversation is warranted, but a bag drop and possible broken clubs, not so much.  

[Binson]

On 12/29/2022 at 7:53 PM, 596 said:

There really is nothing you can do to speed up slow golfers.  I play in a Friday group of about the same size as yours.  Our 4some has been playing together on Fridays for years.  One of the guys is super slow.   I've never seen a guy play this slow.  We gave up trying to speed him up and nothing has ever come close.  He doesnt care, he knows he's very slow.  Even off the course he is slow in everything he does.  He analyses everything to the enith.   I've worked on projects with him at a friends house and he drives me crazy with his everyday pace.  Golf is no different.  We are relegated to the last tee time as everyone refuses to play behind him.  We even give him is own cart, as I walk and the other 2 guys are in another cart.  We play ready golf.  Find ball and hit it.  He is ALWAYS the last to play and the last to finish every single hole.

 

Slow play cannot ever be solved as long as there are "slow movers" in the world.  Is it their fault, no.  Do they care, no.  Do they need to care, no.  It is what it is.  

 

BTW....every once in a while when he's playing bad, he'll turn to me and say that he has figured out why he's playing bad..........................he says, in all seriousness, " I have to slow down"!!!!!!!!!   🤦‍♂️

Just curious, is he a pretty good golfer?

[596]

29 minutes ago, Binson said:

Just curious, is he a pretty good golfer?

He's an upper 80s golfer at 72 years old.  We range from 67 to 72 in our 4some. He hits everything low, tough to hold a green.  Can't chip or pitch well. And is a very hitchy putter. We can't give him any putts because he'll probably miss. Long putts are better then his short ones.  He drives the ball quite well. Doesn't take any penalty strokes.  Long game is better then his short game by far.

 

Other then being extremely slow he is a nice guy. 

[caniac6]

If anyone could actually come up with a foolproof solution to slow play they would be the Time Magazine Man of the Year. 

[caniac6]

On 12/30/2022 at 10:18 AM, TM_HOYER said:

I was part of group that slow play was a constant topic of the golf committee and board. Nothing we did helped speed things up. At one event I ran, I told the course if a group fell behind, have them skip a hole. Well, it happened and a foursome was told to skip a hole. The groups behind were told to play a par 4 as a par 3. The only ones to complain were the slow players.

 

One time I was paired with a known slow player. He decided to ball hawk at a lake. After he ignored me telling him to get in the cart, I released the strap lock on the cart and drove away. His bag fell off, he had to carry the bag to the green as we putted, we picked up his ball near the green, and told him his hole was done.

 

Unfortunately slow players are going to play slow, slow, slow, slow.

That is a lousy thing to do. Did you ever think you might damage his clubs, or something in his bag? Taking his bag off is one thing, but making it fall off is something a third grader would laugh at. You shouldn’t forget that etiquette is part of the game, and just because that guy was out of line doesn’t mean you should step out of line.

[TM_HOYER]

30 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

That is a lousy thing to do. Did you ever think you might damage his clubs, or something in his bag? Taking his bag off is one thing, but making it fall off is something a third grader would laugh at. You shouldn’t forget that etiquette is part of the game, and just because that guy was out of line doesn’t mean you should step out of line.

It was a cheap bag with cheap, old clubs. My driver cost more than everything in his bag. And the person was someone that no one wanted to be paired with and hated playing with. That is why everyone cheered what I did. And being polite over the course of the round did not get any results in catching up with the group in front of us.

[caniac6]

2 minutes ago, TM_HOYER said:

It was a cheap bag with cheap, old clubs. My driver cost more than everything in his bag. And the person was someone that no one wanted to be paired with and hated playing with. That is why everyone cheered what I did. And being polite over the course of the round did not get any results in catching up with the group in front of us.

As long as you can justify poor behavior it must be ok.

[TM_HOYER]

4 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

As long as you can justify poor behavior it must be ok.

I guess you are a lucky one that you never had to play in a foursome with someone many times that you got to the point of were you said enough of their behavior.

[caniac6]

19 minutes ago, TM_HOYER said:

I guess you are a lucky one that you never had to play in a foursome with someone many times that you got to the point of were you said enough of their behavior.

I have, but that didn’t give me the right to mess with his stuff. How would you feel if someone did this to you?

[Golferpaul]

On 12/29/2022 at 12:21 PM, jdubya13 said:

Hello GolfWRX Family,

 

Reaching out to get your feedback on solutions for slow play, as our morning group is putting together a “slow play policy” to make sure we stick to 4 hours or less.

 

A little about our group… On a typical weekend morning, we’ll have anywhere from 4 to 8 groups of guys that range from plus handicaps all the way to 36, but most being in the 4-12 range.  We get the first block of tee times regardless of what’s going on, so we’re spoiled.  We’re a mix of walkers, push cart users, and riders.  We use Golf Genius for our scoring, so one lucky fella will get scoring duties per group.

 

My questions for you are… What has your group/club/course done unique to speed up play?  What have you found that DOESN’T work?  How do you police the slow play and have you imposed “punishments” for those that habitually hold up the pace?

 

Any input is appreciated.  Cheers.

I think you are ignoring 50% of the problem.  Course set up has just as much to do with pace of play as golfer behavior.

[JZ75]

I think this is one of those things that private clubs solve very easily that is very hard to fix at most public tracks. There are still slow players at private clubs but you can actually accommodate a slow player if the others are attentive to keeping up with the group in front of you.

 

 There’s a few slow players in our large group of friends and we have to be mindful not to group them together.  The rule is if you play in over 3:59 you get a letter in your locker the first time and suspended the 2nd.  Now if you play in 4:01 will you get a letter? No. But if you get warned at the turn to speed it up, and you back up the whole course and play in 4:15 you’re going to have a letter in your locker.

[Golferpaul]

3 hours ago, caniac6 said:

If anyone could actually come up with a foolproof solution to slow play they would be the Time Magazine Man of the Year. 

Actually, speeding up play is quite easy.  The course manager just has to WANT to speed up play.  Most don't really care.

 

Two solutions make this an easy problem to solve.

 

1. Set up the course for fast play. Widen fairways, eliminate tall rough so golfers don't look for balls, reduce green speeds, reduce rough and hazards on the right side of all holes.  And make tee times 10 minutes apart.
2. Hire a Marshall with the authority to tell players to speed up or skip a hole.

[david.c.w]

2 hours ago, TM_HOYER said:

I guess you are a lucky one that you never had to play in a foursome with someone many times that you got to the point of were you said enough of their behavior.

 

Sorry man.  That is Bush League.  Grow up.

 

For our non-American friends:  Bush-league Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

 

 

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

Actually, speeding up play is quite easy.  The course manager just has to WANT to speed up play.  Most don't really care.

 

 

... Everyone should experience being a ranger at least once. Friend of mine was the Mgr at a blue color muni and asked me to ranger one Friday afternoon when 3 employees came down with the flu. Since he let me play free when he was working and joined me when he wasn't I couldn't say no. To be fair about 80% of golfers were pretty typical players and kept up with the group in front. But there were several groups that got a hole behind but making things worse the group(s) behind them were impatient to a fault.

... One group hit into the slow group on a par 3!?! The slow group called the clubhouse and when I went out to let the group behind know the entire course was packed and even if the group in front closed the gap it would just slow down again. They said they didn't care and would hit into them again if they didn't speed up. I told them we would have to call the police if they did and one of them pulled out his badge and said "We are the f*****g police! 😳

... I let my friend know and he said yea, they take good care patrolling the course/parking lot since it was a sketchy neighborhood and they play for free but sometimes drink a little too much and get aggressive. 

... One slow group admitted they weren't very good and knew they were behind and would try and catch up, although they never did. The other slow groups just swore at me with versions of the ole "We paid our money and will play the way we want". Unless the golf course is willing to lose customers and most aren't, they will only have rangers suggest picking up their pace but don't give their rangers the authority to do anything else. Inconsiderate people don't care about anyone but themselves and nothing anyone says will make a difference. Being a ranger really is a thankless job. 

 

[Golferpaul]

2 minutes ago, chisag said:

... One slow group admitted they weren't very good and knew they were behind and would try and catch up, although they never did. The other slow groups just swore at me with versions of the ole "We paid our money and will play the way we want". Unless the golf course is willing to lose customers and most aren't, they will only have rangers suggest picking up their pace but don't give their rangers the authority to do anything else. Inconsiderate people don't care about anyone but themselves and nothing anyone says will make a difference. Being a ranger really is a thankless job. 

 

If the course manager wants to solve this problem, he will give the ranger the authority to kick them off the course.   Most course managers don't really want to solve pace of play problems.

 

And BTW, you can call the cops on cops.  They are not above the law and if they purposely hit into the group ahead, they should be fired and charged with assault.

[Double Mocha Man]

19 minutes ago, chisag said:

One group hit into the slow group on a par 3!?! The slow group called the clubhouse and when I went out to let the group behind know the entire course was packed and even if the group in front closed the gap it would just slow down again. They said they didn't care and would hit into them again if they didn't speed up. I told them we would have to call the police if they did and one of them pulled out his badge and said "We are the f*****g police!

 

Those police should have arrested you for impersonating a marshal.  😀😄😁

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, caniac6 said:

I have, but that didn’t give me the right to mess with his stuff. How would you feel if someone did this to you?

 

I thought he already told you,,,,,,,,,,,, 🙃

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

I think you are ignoring 50% of the problem.  Course set up has just as much to do with pace of play as golfer behavior.

 

There are SO many factors going into pace of play it's almost silly to keep going into it time after time after time,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Have a ranger or 2 that knows what they're doing and have them keep an eye on the slower group(s). They don't have to say a work; just give the slow movers the stink eye. They'll understand.

 

And if the group doesn't pick up the pace (the ranger should be able to watch and know whether or not the group took the hint), then he talks to them, then watches a bit more closely, and finally asks them to skip a hole.

[Mtn_Mikey]

One of the simpler things that can be done is placement of the hole by the hole cutter. It doesn't need to be 6 feet from the edge of the green. It doesn't need to be right at the top or bottom of a of a tiered green. A well-designed green should still allow a variety of positions both easy and difficult that will minimize traffic patterns in any one area. Coordination between the pro shop and maintenance staff on busy days is helpful.

[bcjim]

If it was truly that bad, I'd suggest just calmly waling to the rear of the cart, unstrapping the bag, and flinging the whole thing would be far more satisfying. 

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by bcjim

[caniac6]

Within our group, we have a couple guys that are very “methodical “. Occasionally, they will get paired with three guys  in individual carts. After having to move fast to keep up, they get the message. Overall, slow play at our course isn’t an issue. A four hour round is a slow round. Our course is almost 70 years old, and the greens and tees are very close together. We usually walk in about 3.5 as a foursome.

[chisag]

3 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

If the course manager wants to solve this problem, he will give the ranger the authority to kick them off the course.   Most course managers don't really want to solve pace of play problems.

 

And BTW, you can call the cops on cops.  They are not above the law and if they purposely hit into the group ahead, they should be fired and charged with assault.

 

 

... My friend was caught between being a golfer himself and hating slow play and towing the Park District line from a bunch of non golfers that basically said if you pi$$ off golfers you will be fired. As I said, a blue color muni. And those cops were pretty hammered but were "friends of the course" and calling on duty cops to report off duty cops in that crime ridden suburban Chicago neighborhood would not be a good idea. 

[Double Mocha Man]

11 minutes ago, chisag said:

calling on duty cops to report off duty cops in that crime ridden suburban Chicago neighborhood would not be a good idea. 

 

True.  Some 10 year old could shoot you.

[chisag]

10 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

True.  Some 10 year old could shoot you.

 

 

... LOL, Chicago isn't as wild as the media would have you believe. Gang controlled neighborhoods are responsible for most of it and no Chicagoan would even drive though those neighborhoods. This is just a typical low income blue collar area with run of the mill theft, vandalism, etc. 

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, chisag said:

 

 

... LOL, Chicago isn't as wild as the media would have you believe. Gang controlled neighborhoods are responsible for most of it and no Chicagoan would even drive though those neighborhoods. This is just a typical low income blue collar area with run of the mill theft, vandalism, etc. 

 

Chicago is a beautiful city.  The best pizza...

[chisag]

5 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Chicago is a beautiful city.  The best pizza...

 

 

... Couldn't agree more. In summer. Winter makes Siberia seem like Hawaii.  

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Couldn't agree more. In summer. Winter makes Siberia seem like Hawaii.  

 

They forgot to add the word "Cold" to the Windy City.