Kirkland Irons (*** MERGED ***)

[AZGolfNut2]

3 hours ago, snagy2000 said:

3 wedges for $159 = 6 or 7 iron set for < $400 Kirkland Signature Guaranteed 

If the iron heads cost the same to make as the wedge heads, then we might see a sub-$400 price. But a forged hollow-body multi-material head costs at least 3-4x as much to make compared to a cast wedge head (maybe $5-7 for the wedge head and $15-20 for the forged hollow body head). So if you factor another $10-$12 per head that's another $60-$70 cost + typical 15% Costco margin = $70-$80 added to the price. So $160 / 3  = $53/club x 7 clubs =  $371 + additional $70 = $441. But my guess is they'll have a 4-PW set for $499 since the cost of shafts & grips have gone up compared to when they introduced the wedge set. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by jleonard711

[L29]

Among most members, the Kirkland Signature brand is considered a very high quality and trusted product that is desired and chosen over brand names.  For the target audience of these clubs, the logo will be seen as proof these are a great product and would consider buying these over a matching set of TM’s, at a similar price, if they were sitting side by side in the store.  

The general population values knowing they are not getting screwed over financially and Kirkland signature products provide that for people.  Those people don’t care about R&D and if some company loses some profit or goes OOB due to the current market environment.

These products are not for “equipment junkies” who consider tinkering with clubs to be their hobby, other than just another set to try out and mess around with.  Costco is huge because they market to the population as a whole, not to a tiny population of golfers who treat clubs as a hobby and would be afraid of losing those small incremental R&D changes that occur each year that they look forward to trying. 

Personally, I’m in the middle.  Probably won’t buy these clubs, but if they were to assist some day in bringing down the price of my favorite brand name, well…

[spartan6910]

I likely won't be buying these, but they look good enough that I'll at least investigate them. I know at least a couple friends who I think will be very interested in them.

[vtpachyderm]

36 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

Costco makes money on selling memberships.  They keep quality products in stock to attract memberships, it's a strange business model but it's been very successful for them.

 

I'm not seeing the quality issue you are.  Most things branded Kirkland are of better quality than name brands.  I'd guess Costco is paying just as much for the clubs as the big names pay for their components. 

 

Where I see Costco saving money is they don't have to market the product.  All of those name brand commercials we (in the US anyway) see during golf broadcasts cost money and that cost is always passed on to the consumer.

 

24 minutes ago, naj959 said:

Pretty bold claim of inferiority considering you have now raw fitting data to back it up. 

 

14 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

 

This is the part of the criticism of the Kirkland golf products I don't understand (I don't own any). Costco has spent more than a decade building the Kirkland brand as quality products and they're just going to throw that away when it comes to golf products? Really? Not that I think they are trying to compete with anybody but it's certainly not with the uber spec'd out, rivet counters (shout out to the scale modelling world) that post criticism here.

 

I will happily stand corrected then - I have no experience with the Costco model - I assume it's a model based on bulk purchases and sales thus to get costs down and profits up by volume sales. If you pay for membership to gain access to the deals then it makes sense that the product will have a certain level of quality to it. If there is raw fitting data to show that these are quality clubs then more power to Costco (and we'd have to feel sorry for the smaller DTC companies out there I guess?).

 

My experience with made for products has not been good - applies to ski's, mountain bikes, clothing, electronics etc. - a marked decrease in the quality, but like I have said, I don't have Costco where I live so will hold my hands up if I'm wrong on this.

 

BUT - the above post with a mock-up with the Mizuno logo on it - it's kind of what I was implying. If Mizuno were to release the club, there would be a certain expectation of the quality of the product to warrant the Mizuno logo. Now, a cheaper clone of the same club will get the same 'free ride' since it 'looks' like a Mizuno so it must be as good? If it were to be sold as a Mizuno made for Costco model - would people expect the same level of quality? Honestly just curious.

 

I honestly appreciate the civil discussion here 👍

 

[chisag]

6 hours ago, green5 said:

 I instantly made the club acceptable for the serious golfers, although likely at double the price. 

 

I agree Costco should have made the logo smaller but I suspect the marketing team really wanted to make sure the branding is prominent. I do think the Kirkland brand has a certain appeal for Costco fans who believe the Kirkland products are guaranteed to be great value with solid quality, unlike other cheap brands where quality tends to be all over the place.

 

 

 

 

... WRX in a nutshell. Identical at address and with identical performance and you are correct. More than a few here would pay twice as much if it is was a Mizuno while turning their nose up at Kirkland Signature. Personally I have never understood what's "in the bag" has to do with playing golf. While I like a nice look on the sole or back of the club as most, if the performance is there and it looks good at address I really don't care what is on the sole or back of the club. Neither does my scorecard. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by chisag

[JD3]

curious about the price point, at $450 or less will be a real steal. also depends on shaft of course, with their wedges they played it smart and used a TT wedge shaft, just like Vokey. I wonder how the big OEMs respond given how much they've pushed the R&D on the "players distance" design already

Edited January 3, 2023 by JD3

[AZGolfNut2]

3 hours ago, green5 said:

It's a terrible photoshop job but here it is. I instantly made the club acceptable for the serious golfers, although likely at double nearly triple the price. 

 

 

Fixed it. 😉  The Mizuno Pro 225 is a similar style multi-material head with a forged face and hollow body, and those go for $188/club = $1,316 for a set of 4-PW+GW. I'm guessing Costco will have a 4-PW set for under $500. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by jleonard711

[JD3]

Stock shaft will be key to appeal to more serious players. On their wedges they wisely used the same as Vokey, the TT Wedge shaft. My best guess for these will be similar to TM P790 they will go with TT DG105. Since they wont vary flex, id think they go with "S". interested to see how their product designers play this

[KimmerBH]

I think if these are in the $350-$400 range they will sell like crazy but if they end being $500-$600 they might be sitting on the shelves. That extra $100-200 is actually a big deal for the average shopper. I showed these to a few of my buddies who aren't big into golf and they all said they would probably buy them if they were $400 or would definitely be interested in them. 

[larciel]

With inflation, 400 would be too good to be true.

499 makes sense. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, vtpachyderm said:

 

I will happily stand corrected then - I have no experience with the Costco model - I assume it's a model based on bulk purchases and sales thus to get costs down and profits up by volume sales. If you pay for membership to gain access to the deals then it makes sense that the product will have a certain level of quality to it. If there is raw fitting data to show that these are quality clubs then more power to Costco (and we'd have to feel sorry for the smaller DTC companies out there I guess?).

 

 

Yeah, the business model is that the cost of the product in store is the cost of acquisition by Costco with barely enough margin in the actual price to a member as is necessary to cover the supply chain and operations. Corporate profits are intended to be primarily driven by the membership fees. 
 

The appeal of the Kirkland Signature brand itself, however, is that you're getting a quality product. You can buy fine wines and whiskeys with the name "Kirkland" on the bottle. Yeah, you give up selection, but the quality is there and you get a rock-bottom price. Heck, our dog is my wife's favorite member of our family (incl. me lol), and that dog is SPOILED rotten, but she's quite happy with us feeding him Kirkland dog food because she trusts the brand that much. 

 

I suspect Costco got into the game with the wedges and putter (after the ball of course) because they're the least "techy" clubs out there. A simple mallet putter is not rocket science, and they throw a SuperStroke grip on it. Same with wedges, a simple cast head on a TT shaft with a Tour Velvet knockoff grip. So now they copy the exact same hollow-headed players distance iron that you see all over the club world and we're going to assume it's less quality? Nah, I think they know what they're doing. 

 

However, and here is the rub: you give up selection for cost. And that's the barrier for me with Costco irons. I'm tall and need clubs beyond standard length. I'm a big guy and like a heavier shaft (115g) than what they'll probably put in there, so I can't just rely on extensions. I've got large hands and prefer midsize grips whereas I assume they'll use standard. I get fitted because I'm way outside the mainstream and off-the-rack never works for me. So if were to buy these irons, I'd immediately have to reshaft and regrip them, and that will end up eating a HUGE amount of the value I'd get for the lower cost. If I bought the irons, and then bought the shafts and grips I use now that'd be about $50 extra per club before paying for them to be installed. It just doesn't work out for me. But my son just made his HS golf team as a freshman, and they might be in his bag soon (along with the Kirkland wedges I already bought him). 

[capking]

2 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Yeah, the business model is that the cost of the product in store is the cost of acquisition by Costco with barely enough margin in the actual price to a member as is necessary to cover the supply chain and operations. Corporate profits are intended to be primarily driven by the membership fees. 
 

The appeal of the Kirkland Signature brand itself, however, is that you're getting a quality product. You can buy fine wines and whiskeys with the name "Kirkland" on the bottle. Yeah, you give up selection, but the quality is there and you get a rock-bottom price. Heck, our dog is my wife's favorite member of our family (incl. me lol), and that dog is SPOILED rotten, but she's quite happy with us feeding him Kirkland dog food because she trusts the brand that much. 

 

I suspect Costco got into the game with the wedges and putter (after the ball of course) because they're the least "techy" clubs out there. A simple mallet putter is not rocket science, and they throw a SuperStroke grip on it. Same with wedges, a simple cast head on a TT shaft with a Tour Velvet knockoff grip. So now they copy the exact same hollow-headed players distance iron that you see all over the club world and we're going to assume it's less quality? Nah, I think they know what they're doing. 

 

However, and here is the rub: you give up selection for cost. And that's the barrier for me with Costco irons. I'm tall and need clubs beyond standard length. I'm a big guy and like a heavier shaft (115g) than what they'll probably put in there, so I can't just rely on extensions. I've got large hands and prefer midsize grips whereas I assume they'll use standard. I get fitted because I'm way outside the mainstream and off-the-rack never works for me. So if were to buy these irons, I'd immediately have to reshaft and regrip them, and that will end up eating a HUGE amount of the value I'd get for the lower cost. If I bought the irons, and then bought the shafts and grips I use now that'd be about $50 extra per club before paying for them to be installed. It just doesn't work out for me. But my son just made his HS golf team as a freshman, and they might be in his bag soon (along with the Kirkland wedges I already bought him). 

Pretty sure before they released their putter their was an article posted here about how they have a golf nut in some high position that legitimately wants them to have their foot in the game.

[snagy2000]

3 minutes ago, capking said:

Pretty sure before they released their putter their was an article posted here about how they have a golf nut in some high position that legitimately wants them to have their foot in the game.

I think that guy retired but the golf itch within is real...

[AZGolfNut2]

3 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

If I bought the irons, and then bought the shafts and grips I use now that'd be about $50 extra per club before paying for them to be installed. It just doesn't work out for me. 

 

If you wanted to stick to the value theme of these irons (big performance, small price), you could get some Apollo Stepless shafts (125g) which are phenomenal shafts at just $6.50/ea, and some Karma Revolution grips (Tour Velvet knock-offs, likely similar to what will come in the Kirkland irons) for $2.29/ea, and then you're at just $8.79 (plus labor) extra per club. So you could likely have them custom fitted to you for as little as $60 total if you do the work, or $150-$200 depending on what you pay for labor. That still keeps things well below what a comparable custom-fitted name brand set would cost you. 

 

But then again, if you're going to go that route you could just pick up one of the many very nice offerings from component brands like Maltby, Wishon, Alpha, etc, and pay far less than the $60-70/head that you'd essentially be paying for the Kirkland's. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 minutes ago, capking said:

Pretty sure before they released their putter their was an article posted here about how they have a golf nut in some high position that legitimately wants them to have their foot in the game.

 

2 minutes ago, snagy2000 said:

I think that guy retired but the golf itch within is real...

 

Yeah, guy by the name of Tim Farmer. Limited googling suggests he's retired. 

[chisag]

1 hour ago, KimmerBH said:

I think if these are in the $350-$400 range they will sell like crazy but if they end being $500-$600 they might be sitting on the shelves. That extra $100-200 is actually a big deal for the average shopper. I showed these to a few of my buddies who aren't big into golf and they all said they would probably buy them if they were $400 or would definitely be interested in them. 

 

 

... Costco is extremely efficient and no doubt has done extensive research, number crunching and focus groups with members to figure out what a good price would be. What anyone else thinks is irrelevant to them. Talking to a local manager, the OG Signature balls selling out almost immediately (thanks to golf forums) was a real thorn in their side. The last thing they want is members asking where a product is and having to tell them they are sold out and they don't when or if they will return. As many have already stated Costco makes their money off membership fees and making a profit with non members on any given product isn't their business model. So in short they really don't care what golf forum members think about pricing as long as their members want the product and they can keep them on their shelves. 

[TreeHugger73]

Is it bad that I want to game a set of these just to make my brand ho friends embarrassed to play with me? 

[green5]

18 minutes ago, jleonard711 said:

 

If you wanted to stick to the value theme of these irons (big performance, small price), you could get some Apollo Stepless shafts (125g) which are phenomenal shafts at just $6.50/ea, and some Karma Revolution grips (Tour Velvet knock-offs, likely similar to what will come in the Kirkland irons) for $2.29/ea, and then you're at just $8.79 (plus labor) extra per club. So you could likely have them custom fitted to you for as little as $60 total if you do the work, or $150-$200 depending on what you pay for labor. That still keeps things well below what a comparable custom-fitted name brand set would cost you. 

 

But then again, if you're going to go that route you could just pick up one of the many very nice offerings from component brands like Maltby, Wishon, Alpha, etc, and pay far less than the $60-70/head that you'd essentially be paying for the Kirkland's. 

 

Is there a really good component brand alternative? It's a classic looking forged head with a tungsten weight and there aren't too many of them I can find outside Chinese knock offs.

[PowderedToastMan]

I was planning on buying my 12 year old son a set of Takomo 101's, but if the price is even better on these, I'll brave the journey to Costco and hope I don't get trampled by the other shoppers. 

[green5]

2 hours ago, vtpachyderm said:

 

BUT - the above post with a mock-up with the Mizuno logo on it - it's kind of what I was implying. If Mizuno were to release the club, there would be a certain expectation of the quality of the product to warrant the Mizuno logo. Now, a cheaper clone of the same club will get the same 'free ride' since it 'looks' like a Mizuno so it must be as good? If it were to be sold as a Mizuno made for Costco model - would people expect the same level of quality? Honestly just curious.

 

 

I don't think it looks particularly like a Mizuno product and wouldn't call it a clone as it's a very generic classic iron design. I chose Mizuno just because Mizuno is one of most beloved iron makers among enthusiasts. To be fair Kirkland has already set an expectation for their golf products with their balls, wedges, and putter which all have been decent to excellent value 

 

I know it seems silly but we cannot discount intangibles of a brand. I myself would feel much different holding a product if it's from a brand with a long hallowed history and more clout. We all like to think we're rational but golf is so much about personal feelings anyway. In some ways I believe golf club is like cars and watches, any technical superiority is really an excuse to buy images and stories associated with that product and the brand.

Edited January 3, 2023 by green5

[NevinW]

They look really good to me and I've never seen a bad quality Kirkland product.  If the reviews are good and the price is right, I bet they sell a bunch of these.  For those whose vanity won't let them play a Kirkland golf club, that is one of the reasons lead tape exists.  Slap a piece over the Kirkland and suddenly you are too cool for school.  

Edited January 3, 2023 by NevinW

[pjc]

3 hours ago, JD3 said:

Stock shaft will be key to appeal to more serious players. On their wedges they wisely used the same as Vokey, the TT Wedge shaft. My best guess for these will be similar to TM P790 they will go with TT DG105. Since they wont vary flex, id think they go with "S". interested to see how their product designers play this

Elevate 95 if you're lucky, plus they will probably be .370 parallel tip hosels.  

[landolakes]

Kirkland clubs = Northwestern clubs

[wantacigar]

Now here's the conundrum.  I was going to buy the Maltby KE4 max irons with the Score shaft because my Sim2 irons have stiff flex KBS shafts and I'm coming to terms with the fact that my age and physical fitness level is ready for R flex shafts.  NOW THIS.  I have the Ksig putter (love it) and the wedges (great wedges).  Now I have to wait until they are released and if they are in the $399 - $450 range I have a very hard decision to make.  

 

For me, I can't afford to buy $1,200 - $1,400 set of P790's nor do I have $899 for a set of Tacomo's.  I have a daughter that just got married 8 months ago and another getting married in 11 months.  My 4th and last child will be finishing his Masters in Mech. Eng. in December (FINALLY NO MORE KIDS IN COLLEGE).  If these Kirlands have the performance and quality that is synonymous with their branding, I will have absolutely no problem gaming these clubs.  There is nothing more satisfying than beating the guys in my Sunday league with my Ksig balls, wedges and putters against their ProV-1's,  Vokey's and Scotty's.  LOL.   

[propman]

14 minutes ago, wantacigar said:

Now here's the conundrum.  I was going to buy the Maltby KE4 max irons with the Score shaft because my Sim2 irons have stiff flex KBS shafts and I'm coming to terms with the fact that my age and physical fitness level is ready for R flex shafts.  NOW THIS.  I have the Ksig putter (love it) and the wedges (great wedges).  Now I have to wait until they are released and if they are in the $399 - $450 range I have a very hard decision to make.  

 

For me, I can't afford to buy $1,200 - $1,400 set of P790's nor do I have $899 for a set of Tacomo's.  I have a daughter that just got married 8 months ago and another getting married in 11 months.  My 4th and last child will be finishing his Masters in Mech. Eng. in December (FINALLY NO MORE KIDS IN COLLEGE).  If these Kirlands have the performance and quality that is synonymous with their branding, I will have absolutely no problem gaming these clubs.  There is nothing more satisfying than beating the guys in my Sunday league with my Ksig balls, wedges and putters against their ProV-1's,  Vokey's and Scotty's.  LOL.   

But in your case, the Indian can't brag about how much was paid for his golf equip.😆

[drbonesvt]

On 12/31/2022 at 11:47 AM, sleuth said:

Not a bad idea to provide a clone at a great price. I'm sure they'll sell a decent amount, at first. What they missed is getting rid of that silly Kirkland Signature brand. Whoever is in charge of procuring this for Costco doesn't understand that golfers actually care about visual appearance.

Tour issue Kirkland TP B stamp 🤤

 

Miura  Forged 

Edited January 4, 2023 by drbonesvt

[Seidinho]

12 minutes ago, Ned Ryerson said:

Costco had sales of $226B in '22 with $5.8B in profit. Membership is 67m households at $60 per year. The $407m in memberships is less than .2% of revenue. I don't think memberships is key driver in strategy. The Kirkland Brand Represents $69B of the Costco sales, I don't think golf even scratches the surface as a contributor either. These would either be pet projects or in keeping with the SOP special projects that are targeted builds that make a targeted profit. 

what you’re writing is completely wrong.

 

For starters, 67M household members x $60 annual fee is 4Bn, not $400M.

 

You also can’t look at that number as a percent of revenue, but think about it as a share of their operating profit of $8Bn. So yeah, it’s very substantial. 

[Ned Ryerson]

6 minutes ago, Seidinho said:

what you’re writing is completely wrong.

 

For starters, 67M household members x $60 annual fee is 4Bn, not $400M.

 

You also can’t look at that number as a percent of revenue, but think about it as a share of their operating profit of $8Bn. So yeah, it’s very substantial. 

Yup, bad math hence deleted. You typed faster than I deleted. 
 

I still challenge that golf product is not even a remotely part of a significant strategy or a membership incentive.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Ned Ryerson

[rlb4]

4 minutes ago, Seidinho said:

what you’re writing is completely wrong.

 

For starters, 67M household members x $60 annual fee is 4Bn, not $400M.

 

You also can’t look at that number as a percent of revenue, but think about it as a share of their operating profit of $8Bn. So yeah, it’s very substantial. 

And their Executive membership is $120 so its membership revenue is well over 4 billion.

[jpdx]

11 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Costco makes money on selling memberships.  They keep quality products in stock to attract memberships, it's a strange business model but it's been very successful for them.

 

I'm not seeing the quality issue you are.  Most things branded Kirkland are of better quality than name brands.  I'd guess Costco is paying just as much for the clubs as the big names pay for their components. 

 

Where I see Costco saving money is they don't have to market the product.  All of those name brand commercials we (in the US anyway) see during golf broadcasts cost money and that cost is always passed on to the consumer.

attracting memberships is a strange business model? Tell that to amazon (prime), netflix, spotify, hello fresh or any other subscription based company/service.  Seems like a pretty common business model some companies just do better job of creating loyalty and perceived value of the subscription. 
 

The rest i agree with you ☺️