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Grumpy CC members complaining about Juniors.....


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A good buddy of mine was telling me about something that happened at his club last weekend.   So his son and a friend went out as a twosome on a busy weekend morning.  The tee sheet was stacked with other foursomes.  On the 4th hole, the juniors were waiting to tee off.  Note that my buddy's son plays the tips at this course and has done so for some time now.  He is 14, but looks like he's 12.   A member from the group behind comes up and starts grilling the kid about how far he hits driver.  The kid answers- I hit it 230-240.  The member states that the kid should not be playing from the tips as he needs to hit it at least 250 to do so.  Mind you, this kid's best score from the tips is -2 from 6,900 yards and he could rather easily spank 90% of the adult members at the club.   Does he hit fairway woods and hybrid into a lot of the par 4's?  Yes, but who cares?   Anyhow, does the member have any standing to complain about a good junior playing the tips if he isn't holding up play?  Come to find out, the member also went to the head pro to complain.  

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5 minutes ago, kekoa said:

A good buddy of mine was telling me about something that happened at his club last weekend.   So his son and a friend went out as a twosome on a busy weekend morning.  The tee sheet was stacked with other foursomes.  On the 4th hole, the juniors were waiting to tee off.  Note that my buddy's son plays the tips at this course and has done so for some time now.  He is 14, but looks like he's 12.   A member from the group behind comes up and starts grilling the kid about how far he hits driver.  The kid answers- I hit it 230-240.  The member states that the kid should not be playing from the tips as he needs to hit it at least 250 to do so.  Mind you, this kid's best score from the tips is -2 from 6,900 yards and he could rather easily spank 90% of the adult members at the club.   Does he hit fairway woods and hybrid into a lot of the par 4's?  Yes, but who cares?   Anyhow, does the member have any standing to complain about a good junior playing the tips if he isn't holding up play?  Come to find out, the member also went to the head pro to complain.  

Most of recreational golfers simply have no idea how good these junior golfers are in every aspect of the game. I'm also 230 off the tee, there's absolutely no way I should be playing anywhere near 6900. If you go strictly by USGA recommendation, the dude is not wrong. Of course, he has his head so far up his a**, he refuses to listen or believe how good the kids are. 

 

I'm not exactly sure what to say. Golf is a great life lesson, and we deal with a******* all the time in life. The kid needs to learn to defend themselves in an appropriate manner. "I play from 6900 all the time, my average round time is 3.5 hours." On the other hands, kid needs to learn to let some comments roll off the back. 

 

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We ran into this several times, but we play at semi-privates.  The foursome behind would almost pick up their putts just to pick a fight or something.

 

 

Funniest story I remeber:

 

My son was playing and for some reason I decided not to play but just carry the bag for him and chat.  He was 14 or 15???

 

This group of 3 guys decide to join us and everyone seemed nice.

 

We got to the first hole.  I went to pull the flag and one of the guys yell out you're casting a shadow.  I gave him the you're sh***y me look right?  My son picked up his ball and said thank you to the other guys and said I am done.  We walked back to the clubhouse.

 

The stare he gave the other guy should've melted him.

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We ran into stuff like this all the time and had even worst things happen to my kids I can't talk about the details yet but it was enough to go after them legally and have the board investigated.

 

There are some good people but a vast majority of people at club can be petty and hate a junior if they start winning.  You would be shocked at how Members, Club Pro's and Management will do everything to destroy your kid.   It unfornatly really hurt my daughters performance.

 

The thing is the worst person was the club pro and general manager in all this.

 

The good thing is we have escaped and I am starting to see improvement again but I lost all repect for private clubs

 

 

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2 hours ago, kekoa said:

 Anyhow, does the member have any standing to complain about a good junior playing the tips if he isn't holding up play?  Come to find out, the member also went to the head pro to complain.  

 

You would be surprised what members at clubs think they are allowed to do. And, you see the same thing of the home crowd at some public courses. Down Texas way, these entitled golfers sometimes pull pistols out of their bags if they feel offended.

 

Years ago at the public course down in Lawton, OK, I showed up on a busy day and became part of a threesome of singles. The 10th hole was wide open, and the cash register guy told us to go ahead and tee off.

 

We were down in front of 10 green chipping on when a group behind us hit their drives. We putted out and headed for No. 11 tee, and some big came over in his cart and demanded to know why we had "cut in front of his group." Turned out  he was the offensive line coach of a local football team.

 

I told him the sequence, and he said I should have known that the clerk was "not authorized" to start people from 10 tee - only the Starter was. I loudly said he needed to go finish hole #10 because he was holding up play. We all turned our backs on him and played on. He made some remark about how "we hadn't heard the last of this," but we didn't see him after that. 

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2 hours ago, kekoa said:

A good buddy of mine was telling me about something that happened at his club last weekend.   So his son and a friend went out as a twosome on a busy weekend morning.  The tee sheet was stacked with other foursomes.

 

They guy that approached them is definitely a jerk, but this part of your comment threw me a bit.

 

Juniors or not, why was the club allowing a twosome out on a busy weekend morning surrounded by foursomes? That is a much more valid reason to complain than the tees they chose to play from.

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2 hours ago, kekoa said:

A good buddy of mine was telling me about something that happened at his club last weekend.   So his son and a friend went out as a twosome on a busy weekend morning.  The tee sheet was stacked with other foursomes.  On the 4th hole, the juniors were waiting to tee off.  Note that my buddy's son plays the tips at this course and has done so for some time now.  He is 14, but looks like he's 12.   A member from the group behind comes up and starts grilling the kid about how far he hits driver.  The kid answers- I hit it 230-240.  The member states that the kid should not be playing from the tips as he needs to hit it at least 250 to do so.  Mind you, this kid's best score from the tips is -2 from 6,900 yards and he could rather easily spank 90% of the adult members at the club.   Does he hit fairway woods and hybrid into a lot of the par 4's?  Yes, but who cares?   Anyhow, does the member have any standing to complain about a good junior playing the tips if he isn't holding up play?  Come to find out, the member also went to the head pro to complain.  

My issue isn't with the member speaking up (you'd be surprised how often rounds slow up because people just mind their own business and allow people to play their game that is unnecessarily slow) but HOW he spoke up. With no indication of how good the kid was, he immediately assumes the worst and grills him. Even after presumably watching the kid make a decent swing on the ball- feeling the need to tell the head pro is ridiculous.  

I've recommended guys move up a set of tees before but only after being stuck behind them for a handful of holes, or because they got paired up with me and felt the need to play the same tees despite the obvious skill gap. To comment on it without any knowledge is bad. Hope the pro told him to GTFO.

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Here is my thing. If the kid looked like an actual 14 yr old im not sure the member would say s***.  The kid is definitely a late bloomer and already has a complex that everyone and their mom is bigger/stronger than him.  This kid can flat out play and has slowly learned to challenge himself to stay motivated.  I really wish the kid told the member to F off and im all about respecting adults 🤣🤣

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We have had very good relationships with juniors at our club. We have a local high school girls team that was nationally ranked a couple years ago, and they practice at our course. Several have received D1 scholarships, and they can really play. They are all nice kids, and our club is very proud of them.

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It’s not ok, but it’ll never change. Some people are just a-holes. It’s why I almost always walk with mine on busy days. They know how to play, know when to let people play through, and know not to hit into people. With that said they are respectful KIDS and while they are learning to stand up for themselves, a-hole adults are tough. Those people were terrible golfers (if they played at all) as juniors and can’t comprehend the skill of todays players. If the juniors aren’t skilled then that’s a whole different discussion 
 

We laugh all the time as we catch and pass 4-somes in carts while the boys are walking. Easily walking 3-3:30 hour rounds. 

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Anyone can and may complain whether they are members or not.  If the junior player was not holding up play the issue is that the complainer is way out of bounds .  Hopefully the club pro educated the complainer,  and someone in his foursome told him to loosen this grip.  The junior player will meet jerks  in one form or another the rest of his life.  The golf course is a great place to learn life lessons. I bet this junior will become a gentleman and demonstrate class and   decorum that was missing from his interaction with the "adult"  belly acher.   

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5 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

They guy that approached them is definitely a jerk, but this part of your comment threw me a bit.

 

Juniors or not, why was the club allowing a twosome out on a busy weekend morning surrounded by foursomes? That is a much more valid reason to complain than the tees they chose to play from.

I get that, but at some private clubs members can chose whether to play with another 2-some or not.  Also, if the sheet is filled with foursomes and there is a two-some mixed in between there really isn't anything you can do about it.  In the end, the two-some isn't really holding things up.

 

Some members make a tee time for a four-some on purpose knowing full well they only have two players.   They feel like there is no reason to play with other random strangers when they are paying good money to be a member in the first place.   

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15 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

They guy that approached them is definitely a jerk, but this part of your comment threw me a bit.

 

Juniors or not, why was the club allowing a twosome out on a busy weekend morning surrounded by foursomes? That is a much more valid reason to complain than the tees they chose to play from.

 

Maybe all that had were foursomes who wanted to go out. Maybe a last minute cancellation... Plenty of reasons to let a twosome go off.

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9 hours ago, kekoa said:

I get that, but at some private clubs members can chose whether to play with another 2-some or not.  Also, if the sheet is filled with foursomes and there is a two-some mixed in between there really isn't anything you can do about it.  In the end, the two-some isn't really holding things up.

 

Some members make a tee time for a four-some on purpose knowing full well they only have two players.   They feel like there is no reason to play with other random strangers when they are paying good money to be a member in the first place.   

 

Our course charges you $20 per no show.

 

This sounds like a ClubCorp course to me.

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15 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

They guy that approached them is definitely a jerk, but this part of your comment threw me a bit.

 

Juniors or not, why was the club allowing a twosome out on a busy weekend morning surrounded by foursomes? That is a much more valid reason to complain than the tees they chose to play from.


Agreed that a good general rule is not to put a twosome out at busy prime-time, but there are plenty of times where it works. If the guy berating the juniors was hacked off, he should take that up with the shop or the starter, never with the juniors, that is just not acceptable and if that were my son, I’d be having a chat with that member. 

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18 hours ago, Medson said:

I'm not exactly sure what to say. Golf is a great life lesson, and we deal with a******* all the time in life. The kid needs to learn to defend themselves in an appropriate manner. "I play from 6900 all the time, my average round time is 3.5 hours." On the other hands, kid needs to learn to let some comments roll off the back. 

Great answer.  I concur.

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11 hours ago, kekoa said:

I get that, but at some private clubs members can chose whether to play with another 2-some or not.  Also, if the sheet is filled with foursomes and there is a two-some mixed in between there really isn't anything you can do about it.  In the end, the two-some isn't really holding things up.

 

Some members make a tee time for a four-some on purpose knowing full well they only have two players.   They feel like there is no reason to play with other random strangers when they are paying good money to be a member in the first place.   

 

If you belong to a private club and pay enough you. It should be no problem to go out in a two some or what ever combination you want.  Also they usually have no need to overbook.   Since most people can play golf and understand pace of play everything  should work out. This how it actually does work at good clubs. 

 

When I first joined the club I had issues with I  never had any problems when I first joined. The problem happened  after I joined because the director of golf was lazy and didn;t care about pace of play. It didn't take long to run off all the assistants that actually ran the course and made sure everyone understand the rules.  At the end of the day when the  Director of Golf wants to be top dog  and alpha golfer you get issues.   

 

Prior to covid a lot courses were scared of going out of business. After Covid they don't want to deal with real golfers because there too demanding.  It a lot easier job if you have people who can't play join. Those are also the people who are causing all the issues.  The key is avoid those clubs that do cater to golfers and let them go out of business.

 

Right now a Junior golfer or really any serious golfer is better to play a handful of public courses then join a club.   Anyone who reads this should be joining youth on course and asking around for junior rates at local courses. 

Edited by tiger1873
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54 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

All you have to do is read social media posts about CW or even the Charlie Woods thread in these forums to understand that the general golf playing adult and head pro has no idea about Junior Golf.

 

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Did you know that Charlie is named after Charlie Sifford and that his middle name, Axel, is a nod to Elin's dad and her older brother? And Axel means King of Peace in Swedish.

 

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I guess we are lucky our club has cool members and cool pro's. We are there so often, that most members know my daughter and many have played with her so everyone treats her like royalty. I was telling my wife how nice it is when she's out there and most other foursome passing will stop and watch her play...cheering for her when she hits good shots.

 

 

 

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From what i have seen, members will complain about anyone. A lot of CC's are like high school....In my experience i'm not sure juniors get it any worse than just general, people complain about everyone when it comes to behavior on course. This situation in the OP definitely sounds like a jerk though

 

One area that i will say i have seen many complain is playing privileges of juniors because they pay less in dues. A lot of older guys don't want them playing in prime hours or in any of the comps....i for one don't really agree with that

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3 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

From what i have seen, members will complain about anyone. A lot of CC's are like high school....In my experience i'm not sure juniors get it any worse than just general, people complain about everyone when it comes to behavior on course. This situation in the OP definitely sounds like a jerk though

 

One area that i will say i have seen many complain is playing privileges of juniors because they pay less in dues. A lot of older guys don't want them playing in prime hours or in any of the comps....i for one don't really agree with that

 

It has nothing to do with Dues.  I paid the same Dues and initiation just like everyone else. Most these clubs got a lot older golfers who flocked to golf after covid. These golfers are a different animal and some these GM's are running the clubs into the ground because these new golfers are easy money and don't care about the course and are ok with 6 hour rounds.

 

The key is to find a club that values golf.  The better clubs tend to be the ones with small  or non existent clubhouses that doesn't attract.a member who wants to have social events every day.

 

A lot clubs and members are just out of touch.  Any Club that doesn't understand you need to have a variety of members to survive is going to find out that there is too many courses when all these part time golfers go back to watching concerts and theater every week.

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54 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

It has nothing to do with Dues.  I paid the same Dues and initiation just like everyone else. Most these clubs got a lot older golfers who flocked to golf after covid. These golfers are a different animal and some these GM's are running the clubs into the ground because these new golfers are easy money and don't care about the course and are ok with 6 hour rounds.

 

The key is to find a club that values golf.  The better clubs tend to be the ones with small  or non existent clubhouses that doesn't attract.a member who wants to have social events every day.

 

A lot clubs and members are just out of touch.  Any Club that doesn't understand you need to have a variety of members to survive is going to find out that there is too many courses when all these part time golfers go back to watching concerts and theater every week.

 

I think clubs focusing on golf is a good thing, and etiquette, pace of play etc are very important. 

 

But clubs do need to have the restaurant, events portion too because that earns a great deal of revenue. It's possible to have both if you have good members and management 

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I've been a member of a higher tier course before kids, and was pretty annoyed with how some "adults" treated me!   We're at a mid tier Club Corb managed/member owned course now that my 14 yo has gotten to be a pretty competitive jr golfer and he's out there every day, has a relationship with the pros, and managers, and it the board president has a top ranked jr as son, and by and large they treat him great.   There will be a few members who will make a silly complaint about something to him and go to the pro shop and the pro shop will talk to him, but tell him that guy is an a****** so don't worry about it at all or something like that.   

 

The head pro (who is not his coach) will often go out and play with him.   It just all depends on the culture.   I can totally believe that there are some private clubs that are horrible to kids.

 

Our local private clubs are all very generous to the high school teams and give the team free access all golf season.   The club my son's public high school team plays at is a much higher initiation private club than ours, and is great to the kids on the team and pretty much unofficially gives them free access to practice and walk on in the afternoons.    Supporting junior golf has to be in the best interest of the future of these clubs, and it's good to see around here that a lot of them are realizing it.

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