Grumpy CC members complaining about Juniors.....

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, klebs01 said:

They aren’t a member and it’s not their time to play. Guest are also limited during this those hours. This is the main time that is in high demand and when most of the money games are played. There are other times during the week that are set aside for juniors to play. As well as open play times every day. 

Unless you are joining an all exclusive mens club this policy is just plain stupid. The one I know of like this doesn’t allow women or kids at anytime and lets the guys do what ever they want.  You also can’t ask to join it. They will ask you.  You know what your joining.

 

But if this just a run of a mill club like most of them are  it better change it’s policy and update it rules before it end up having a hard time finding member join a backwards club.

[klebs01]

1 minute ago, tiger1873 said:

Unless you are joining an all exclusive mens club this policy is just plain stupid. The one I know of like this doesn’t allow women or kids at anytime and lets the guys do what ever they want.  You also can’t ask to join it. They will ask you.  You know what your joining.

 

But if this just a run of a mill club like most of them are  it better change it’s policy and update it rules before it end up having a hard time finding member join a backwards club.

works for the members. Long wait list. Not and issue. Not a men’s club. 

[tiger1873]

Just now, klebs01 said:

works for the members. Long wait list. Not and issue. Not a men’s club. 

I can give a long list of members who talked the same way and they were begging to leave. The way you think is why people do not join clubs.

 

A lot clubs that have not modernized to younger and more open membership rules are going to close their doors.

 

I can play multiple premium courses that offer anything most clubs have for less the then $1000-$2000 a month these places with dumpy club houses charge with battered up courses and members who think there to good to play with women and kids.

 

[klebs01]

2 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

I can give a long list of members who talked the same way and they were begging to leave. The way you think is why people do not join clubs.

 

A lot clubs that have not modernized to younger and more open membership rules are going to close their doors.

 

I can play multiple premium courses that offer anything most clubs have for less the then $1000-$2000 a month these places with dumpy club houses charge with battered up courses and members who think there to good to play with women and kids.

 

Glad you solution works for. Not really sure where your irrational hate for private clubs originates, but I’m sure we will be fine with out you or your advice. 

[daegyu]

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

I can give a long list of members who talked the same way and they were begging to leave. The way you think is why people do not join clubs.

 

Any nice club in any big city will have a waitlist at this point. There are many reasons people leave and join clubs, but not really any of those you listed. 

 

I agree that clubs should do more to be family friendly, since it allows spouses and kids to join in the fun and create more of an incentive to keep one's membership for longer. However, not all members have spouses and kids so it's fair to have certain days/times to allow only primary members to play. At our club, we have men's courtesy until 1pm on Wednesdays, Women's courtesy until 11am on Tuesdays, and only 1 guest rule before 9am weekdays, 10am on weekends. As someone with kids of my own, I have no problem with this. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

On 1/29/2023 at 8:45 AM, bwbw said:

She went over to the other course with her boyfriend to play 9.  This course is not a private course.  There was a guy in front who, in her words, was not very good.  He was on the green and her, used to playing ready golf, went out to the fairway to be in position to hit when he cleared the green.

 

They caught up to them on the next hole and the guy scolded her for walking out to her ball when he was in the fairway.  The guy’s wife (who was riding with him) later apologized.  The guy had a rough day and a few to many to drink.

 

Just to clarify, he scolded your daughter for walking out to her ball (walking out from where? The cart?) in the fairway while he was on the green (or fairway?).

What!?

 

She's not hitting into him, right? Just getting to her ball and preparing to hit when the green clears? 

 

Isn't that what you're supposed to do?

 

[heavy_hitter]

14 hours ago, klebs01 said:

They aren’t a member and it’s not their time to play. Guest are also limited during this those hours. This is the main time that is in high demand and when most of the money games are played. There are other times during the week that are set aside for juniors to play. As well as open play times every day. 

Crock of BS!!

[klebs01]

7 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Crock of BS!!

what is BS?

[heavy_hitter]

5 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

what is BS?

That a junior wouldn't be able to partake in money games or play in the morning.  Sounds like a club where a bunch of men are afraid to lose money or get beat be a youngster.  Our club welcomes my 17 year old to play on the weekend morning groups.  He has played golf with the men since 15 and most of the time walks away with money in his pocket.  What makes your membership more than a kid under their parents membership or a junior that is a full paying member?  Complete garbage that your club treats juniors this way and you are proud of that.

Edited February 3, 2023 by heavy_hitter

[pingfool]

11 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Crock of BS!!

Dude you might want to expand your perspective wider than the narrow junior golf experience you have. So you have a couple juniors that can play. Great. 

Private clubs have rules. Good luck finding one that’s caters to you and your kids.

If you’re reading the tea leaves your expectations will not be met at too many places.

and if its not a problem. Why protest so much?

[tiger1873]

12 hours ago, daegyu said:

Any nice club in any big city will have a waitlist at this point. There are many reasons people leave and join clubs, but not really any of those you listed. 

 

I agree that clubs should do more to be family friendly, since it allows spouses and kids to join in the fun and create more of an incentive to keep one's membership for longer. However, not all members have spouses and kids so it's fair to have certain days/times to allow only primary members to play. At our club, we have men's courtesy until 1pm on Wednesdays, Women's courtesy until 11am on Tuesdays, and only 1 guest rule before 9am weekdays, 10am on weekends. As someone with kids of my own, I have no problem with this. 

 

The problem is the influx of golfers in the last few years really couldn't care if they played or not. They just joined because they thought is was socially acceptable to play golf with covid.  

 

I met a lot new members who deposed kids because they travel and even worse they don't want kids to travel to tournaments.  

 

People who golf like other people who can play well not matter what they are.

 

[heavy_hitter]

1 minute ago, pingfool said:

Dude you might want to expand your perspective wider than the narrow junior golf experience you have. So you have a couple juniors that can play. Great. 

Private clubs have rules. Good luck finding one that’s caters to you and your kids.

If you’re reading the tea leaves your expectations will not be met at too many places.

and if its not a problem. Why protest so much?

You can't be serious?  Maybe you should get out more.  Sounds like you and Klebs are the Grumpy CC members the OP is talking about.

[tiger1873]

1 minute ago, pingfool said:

Dude you might want to expand your perspective wider than the narrow junior golf experience you have. So you have a couple juniors that can play. Great. 

Private clubs have rules. Good luck finding one that’s caters to you and your kids.

If you’re reading the tea leaves your expectations will not be met at too many places.

and if its not a problem. Why protest so much?

 

Most juniors that can play golf are faster and can play better then the average player out there. They all know the rules and usually much more respectful of the course.

 

Hard to find a junior that can't break 90 while it's hard to find an adult that can break 90.

[tiger1873]

3 minutes ago, pingfool said:

Dude you might want to expand your perspective wider than the narrow junior golf experience you have. So you have a couple juniors that can play. Great. 

Private clubs have rules. Good luck finding one that’s caters to you and your kids.

If you’re reading the tea leaves your expectations will not be met at too many places.

and if its not a problem. Why protest so much?

 

So how do you expect your club to pay it's dues when no one joins because you stupid rules.

 

There is a reason so many clubs have to sell to club corp, concert partners or Troon.   Once that happens they run off people like you and make sensible rules. I seen this happen at lots of places over the years.

[klebs01]

6 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

That a junior wouldn't be able to partake in money games or play in the morning.  Sounds like a club where a bunch of men are afraid to lose money or get beat be a youngster.  Our club welcomes my 17 year old to play on the weekend morning groups.  He has played golf with the men since 15 and most of the time walks away with money in his pocket.  What makes your membership more than a kid under their parents membership or a junior that is a full paying member?  Complete garbage that your club treats juniors this way and you are proud of that.

ha. You state it right there. The junior isn’t a member and just has playing privileges under a parent’s membership. It has nothing to do with being afraid of losing money. It has to do with allocation of a scarce resource. That would be tee times at the most desirable time. The allocation goes preferentially to the members. The gets allocated after that. There is plenty of time for the juniors to play outside those couple hours. We have a great junior program and even have time set aside just for them on the course. Those times just are at the time that is in the most demand for members. 

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

ha. You state it right there. The junior isn’t a member and just has playing privileges under a parent’s membership. It has nothing to do with being afraid of losing money. It has to do with allocation of a scarce resource. That would be tee times at the most desirable time. The allocation goes preferentially to the members. The gets allocated after that. There is plenty of time for the juniors to play outside those couple hours. We have a great junior program and even have time set aside just for them on the course. Those times just are at the time that is in the most demand for members. 

Guess what...  if the club has a family membership, they are a member.  If the junior has a full membership, they are a member.  No difference than not allowing women or people of color to play at that time.  It is discrimination, you just don't want to admit it because it is disruptive to your mornings.  Glad to be where we are at the the membership actually welcomes competition from the juniors.

[klebs01]

6 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Most juniors that can play golf are faster and can play better then the average player out there. They all know the rules and usually much more respectful of the course.

 

Hard to find a junior that can't break 90 while it's hard to find an adult that can break 90.

You need to get outside your bubble. Most junior can barely hit the ball out of their shadow. The odds a club has a 14 year old that’s a +2 and can hit it 280 is just about zero. Leave Saturday mornings for folks that want to have a money game and play in 3 hours. I’ll then go out with my 5 and 7 year olds at 430 and goof around. It’s funny, at the club EVERYONE gets this and it doesn’t even have to be discussed. The preferred tee times for folks are completely aligned to expectations. It’s only the odd person (very rate) that comes in thinking everyone should change and cater to them that is the issue. 

[tiger1873]

3 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

ha. You state it right there. The junior isn’t a member and just has playing privileges under a parent’s membership. It has nothing to do with being afraid of losing money. It has to do with allocation of a scarce resource. That would be tee times at the most desirable time. The allocation goes preferentially to the members. The gets allocated after that. There is plenty of time for the juniors to play outside those couple hours. We have a great junior program and even have time set aside just for them on the course. Those times just are at the time that is in the most demand for members. 

 

So what happens when your wife decides to play. Under your logic she is not a member.  I don't know many women who allow their husbands to join with your logic.  I been a member of multiple clubs and they are all the same.  The whole family are all members with all the same privileges as anyone else.

 

You have 1 vote per membership who decides to allocate the vote is up the family.  But my wife could have voted on anything and dispute bills just like me.    In fact when we resigned they didn't care who signed the letter.

 

You view is out of date and something from 1950's that really never existed.

[klebs01]

Just now, heavy_hitter said:

Guess what...  if the club has a family membership, they are a member.  If the junior has a full membership, they are a member.  No difference than not allowing women or people of color to play at that time.  It is discrimination, you just don't want to admit it because it is disruptive to your mornings.  Glad to be where we are at the the membership actually welcomes competition from the juniors.

Nope. They aren’t members. They don’t have a share or a vote. We also have times blocked for women’s day and for men’s day. Not the full days. Members are happy with the situation. Nothing discriminatory about it. The different sub groups all have their block of solo access to the course. 

[tiger1873]

2 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

You need to get outside your bubble. Most junior can barely hit the ball out of their shadow. The odds a club has a 14 year old that’s a +2 and can hit it 280 is just about zero. Leave Saturday mornings for folks that want to have a money game and play in 3 hours. I’ll then go out with my 5 and 7 year olds at 430 and goof around. It’s funny, at the club EVERYONE gets this and it doesn’t even have to be discussed. The preferred tee times for folks are completely aligned to expectations. It’s only the odd person (very rate) that comes in thinking everyone should change and cater to them that is the issue. 

 

Actually my view from being a member is most people over 70 take 6 hours to play and can't hit more then 50 yards.  They should be playing mini golf. 

 

You keep talking about money games.  If that is what you want why are in a club. Most clubs have terrible money games compared to public courses.  Even if you are having money games what do you care if they are not part of your group.

 

Seriously Why do you care what other groups are out there.  You sound like some the people that the club I was at years ago ran off after club corp brought it. They got sick and tired of people who thought they were entitled to prime tee times over other members. That is the issue isn't it. You want the tee time over other paying members.

[tiger1873]

2 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

Nope. They aren’t members. They don’t have a share or a vote. We also have times blocked for women’s day and for men’s day. Not the full days. Members are happy with the situation. Nothing discriminatory about it. The different sub groups all have their block of solo access to the course. 

 

Not sure you understand that statement there.

[klebs01]

3 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

So what happens when your wife decides to play. Under your logic she is not a member.  I don't know many women who allow their husbands to join with your logic.  I been a member of multiple clubs and they are all the same.  The whole family are all members with all the same privileges as anyone else.

 

You have 1 vote per membership who decides to allocate the vote is up the family.  But my wife could have voted on anything and dispute bills just like me.    In fact when we resigned they didn't care who signed the letter.

 

You view is out of date and something from 1950's that really never existed.

I’ve been a member of multiple clubs and none have been that way. One person is the member and the rest of the family has access privileges. Those privileges varied.  Current club is both adults can play in prime time, past 2 were only the primary member could play in prime time. The woman could be the primary member, that would be up to the family to decide. Odd how this is a very common set up, but you deny that it even existed. 

[klebs01]

3 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Actually my view from being a member is most people over 70 take 6 hours to play and can't hit more then 50 yards.  They should be playing mini golf. 

 

You keep talking about money games.  If that is what you want why are in a club. Most clubs have terrible money games compared to public courses.  Even if you are having money games what do you care if they are not part of your group.

 

Seriously Why do you care what other groups are out there.  You sound like some the people that the club I was at years ago ran off after club corp brought it. They got sick and tired of people who thought they were entitled to prime tee times over other members. That is the issue isn't it. You want the tee time over other paying members.

anyone playing in 6 hours is getting tossed from the club. Over 4 hours is getting a letter. Lol. 
 

access and pace of play are the top 2 reasons for membership. Money games and tournaments are next. No decent money games around here at public courses. 
 

my concern about other groups is mostly limited to pace of play. Secondarily is access to the course. The juniors don’t drive the success of the club members do. The members should have access to the prime spots. I don’t really care if some hotshot plays at 930 for some money and I may want a price of the action, but that can’t come at the expense of a member getting blocked out from those times. 

[tiger1873]

2 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

anyone playing in 6 hours is getting tossed from the club. Over 4 hours is getting a letter. Lol. 
 

access and pace of play are the top 2 reasons for membership. Money games and tournaments are next. No decent money games around here at public courses. 
 

my concern about other groups is mostly limited to pace of play. Secondarily is access to the course. The juniors don’t drive the success of the club members do. The members should have access to the prime spots. I don’t really care if some hotshot plays at 930 for some money and I may want a price of the action, but that can’t come at the expense of a member getting blocked out from those times. 

 

Dude you haven't been around many clubs if you haven't seen the 6 hour round. Country clubs are all about getting as many paying members as they can.   Does your club vet new members? If not don't lie.  I guarantee no club would toss a member for being slow after they paid a hefty initiation fee. Pretty easy lawsuit there. 

 

I belonged to 100k iniation dues to join and it was the slowest place around.  People pay money to play slow. The fast place around is the muni with an egressive ranger.

[tiger1873]

18 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

I’ve been a member of multiple clubs and none have been that way. One person is the member and the rest of the family has access privileges. Those privileges varied.  Current club is both adults can play in prime time, past 2 were only the primary member could play in prime time. The woman could be the primary member, that would be up to the family to decide. Odd how this is a very common set up, but you deny that it even existed. 

 

What do you have 5000 members per course or something? Maybe you need to join something where tee times are actually available.  Most places I joined had less than 400 members per course.  If you join a club with correct amount of members you can always get a decent tee time unless the club lied to you and oversold the membership

[klebs01]

11 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

What do you have 5000 members per course or something? Maybe you need to join something where tee times are actually available.  Most places I joined had less than 400 members per course.  If you join a club with correct amount of members you can always get a decent tee time unless the club lied to you and oversold the membership

Nah. Membership is capped at 175. Can’t just go after unlimited new members when we are already maxed out. 
 

the truth is, no one plays in 6 hours. I’ve never seen a club round close to that at any club. It the pace is approaching 4 hours the pro is driving out on the course to get people to pick it up. 

[tiger1873]

10 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

Nah. Membership is capped at 175. Can’t just go after unlimited new members when we are already maxed out. 
 

the truth is, no one plays in 6 hours. I’ve never seen a club round close to that at any club. It the pace is approaching 4 hours the pro is driving out on the course to get people to pick it up. 

 

Doesn't sound right. If you only have a 175 members there isn't enough people to take up the rounds in the morning.  Any club below 200 is in danger of going out of business  which makes sense based on the rules you are saying that is unless there charging 35k a year to members.

 

I also never seen a pro go out and complain to a member that is approaching 4 hours. Any pro that did that would get fired by the membership. Especially if this is a high end place.   You join a club to not be bothered.    With 175 members your course should be almost always empty.

 

It really sounds like your a member of a semi private club with rules to make people pay rack rate.

[klebs01]

1 minute ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Doesn't sound right. If you only have a 175 members there isn't enough people to take up the rounds in the morning.  Any club below 200 is in danger of going out of business  which makes sense based on the rules you are saying that is unless there charging 35k a year to members.

 

I also never seen a pro go out and complain to a member that is approaching 4 hours. Any pro that did that would get fired by the membership. Especially if this is a high end place.   You join a club to not be bothered.    With 175 members your course should be almost always empty.

 

It really sounds like your a member of a semi private club with rules to make people pay rack rate.

not sure where you live but clearly we have different expectations of a club experience. The pro going out is exactly what the members want and would be more like to lose his job if he didn’t go out. 
 

175 members and very heathy financially. No danger of going out of business. Been around for over 100 years. Any club with over 275 members per 18 is a huge red flag and it would be over crowded. Or maybe the members at the clubs I’ve been at are just much more active than you’ve experienced. 

[tiger1873]

16 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

not sure where you live but clearly we have different expectations of a club experience. The pro going out is exactly what the members want and would be more like to lose his job if he didn’t go out. 
 

175 members and very heathy financially. No danger of going out of business. Been around for over 100 years. Any club with over 275 members per 18 is a huge red flag and it would be over crowded. Or maybe the members at the clubs I’ve been at are just much more active than you’ve experienced. 

 

So why do you have a problem getting prime tee times???  You keep saying everyone is playing in prime time.   No one has 100% membership playing every week and every morning.  Tee times are probably what every 15 minutes?  4 members per tee means you have what  16 members an hour that can play. To me it looks like half your membership  can play every Saturday Morning. No way you have that much demand any given Saturday.   Even if every member played every Saturday you should be able to play a few times a month in the morning.

 

If your one those members who want Saturday tee times between 8-10 every Saturday morning then your the person who is unrealistic.  Clubs are based on shared tee times and no one gets prime tee times every time they want it.

Edited February 3, 2023 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, klebs01 said:

Nope. They aren’t members. They don’t have a share or a vote. We also have times blocked for women’s day and for men’s day. Not the full days. Members are happy with the situation. Nothing discriminatory about it. The different sub groups all have their block of solo access to the course. 

Nothing discriminatory, yet you are discriminating.  Sounds like a crappy club to be honest.  My In-Laws are members at a high end club.  Even if my kid wants to play in the men's group there, he is allowed.  Invited to play in the longest running Pro-Am in Florida at the same club as well.

 

What you are saying, is your club doesn't care about good golfers, but appeasing an Old Grumpy membership.