Grumpy CC members complaining about Juniors.....

[tiger1873]

5 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Nothing discriminatory, yet you are discriminating.  Sounds like a crappy club to be honest.  My In-Laws are members at a high end club.  Even if my kid wants to play in the men's group there, he is allowed.  Invited to play in the longest running Pro-Am in Florida at the same club as well.

 

What you are saying, is your club doesn't care about good golfers, but appeasing an Old Grumpy membership.

 

What gets me about these people who are so discriminating is they have no idea of how a club works. You supposed to have a Diversified membership  so everyone gets to play when you want.  If you have too many retired people everyone wants the same tee time.  However if you get families there most likely out there in the evening during the week and with  their kids in afternoon and they bring in the same revenue for the club.   

 

Everyone wins and really no one is taking time away from anyone.  The odd tee you lose when someone wants to play a different time is worth it because they allow the club to stay open.

 

Without all a diversified membership club can only support a few members and almost always goes out of business.

[leezer99]

Can we just chill? I swear this sub has more locked threads than anywhere else on WRX. 

[klebs01]

44 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

So why do you have a problem getting prime tee times???  You keep saying everyone is playing in prime time.   No one has 100% membership playing every week and every morning.  Tee times are probably what every 15 minutes?  4 members per tee means you have what  16 members an hour that can play. To me it looks like half your membership  can play every Saturday Morning. No way you have that much demand any given Saturday.   Even if every member played every Saturday you should be able to play a few times a month in the morning.

 

If your one those members who want Saturday tee times between 8-10 every Saturday morning then your the person who is unrealistic.  Clubs are based on shared tee times and no one gets prime tee times every time they want it.

25% playing on Saturday is very realistic. Maybe a bit low. Getting a Saturday prime time is the exact reason to joint a club, especially with a limited membership. Every time. Maybe not. Within the three hour window? Sure. 

[klebs01]

36 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Nothing discriminatory, yet you are discriminating.  Sounds like a crappy club to be honest.  My In-Laws are members at a high end club.  Even if my kid wants to play in the men's group there, he is allowed.  Invited to play in the longest running Pro-Am in Florida at the same club as well.

 

What you are saying, is your club doesn't care about good golfers, but appeasing an Old Grumpy membership.

yeah. It sucks when I’m

discriminates against because we have 4 hours set aside for juniors and another 5 for women. 
 

nah, my family and the other young families love the club. No need to appease old grumpy guys. Can’t say I’ve run into any of them. We have a great membership that gets along. 

[pingfool]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Can we just chill? I swear this sub has more locked threads than anywhere else on WRX. 

 

Locked threads in junior golf forum? I guess thats not surprising given the junior dads who think their heavy hitters. 

[Petethreeput]

I forgot how awesomely contentious the Jr golf forum is, this is fantastic!  Everyone, get off my lawn!

 

We had these conversations often.  I think the reality is there were two reasons juniors were not permitted to play during the weekend mornings.  1. was liability.  For every 14 year old who could play, there was the guy who brought out their 4 year old.  The kid who wouldn't understand "Fore!" and that isn't good, and 2. these spots are coveted by adults because more than likely they had other things to do in the afternoon, like maybe go to a kids soccer game or whatever, and those members pay the bills.  Kids generally don't have outside obligations and are therefore free to golf at just about any time.

 

We handled it like this.  We have a junior program, and once a kid completes the program and plays with the pro in a respectful and timely fashion they get a red towel.  They get expanded tee times, but they have to have the red towel on their bag.  And everyone knows as they walk the fairways they have been approved by the pro.  They still aren't allowed on the course before 1030 on weekends for the liablity of it all, but they can play any other time unless its the "gender" day.

 

The limitations for gender is best encapsulated in the Spokane Country Club, which was forced to liquidate to pay the lawsuit and is now the Kalispel Indian course (if memory is on point).

 

Seeing the kids with the red towels makes me happy.  When that kid beats me straight up, that's a different story.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Petethreeput

[Movingday]

Some interesting points in here. I have a couple thoughts/questions. I start this by saying that I’ve never been a member of a private club so have no insight into how they operate. 
1. I understand the idea of some designated times for the “primary” member of all memberships cost the same. At these clubs is it the same cost for a single person and a family of 4 to be members? If that’s the case could I designate my son as the primary member and he get the preferential tee times instead of me?

2. I love the idea of juniors “testing out” with the pro to get more playing privileges. Most of the people in here have kids that can play, but the majority out there can’t and I can see that causing problems. 
3. My boys have a membership at a local public course. It is heavily discounted and comes with time restrictions. As much as it sucks it’s still better than paying full never rate imo. If I wanted them to get priority times I could pay the full adult membership and they would be able to play anytime. 

 

 

[StudentGolfer4]

6 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Guess what...  if the club has a family membership, they are a member.  If the junior has a full membership, they are a member.  No difference than not allowing women or people of color to play at that time.  It is discrimination, you just don't want to admit it because it is disruptive to your mornings.  Glad to be where we are at the the membership actually welcomes competition from the juniors.

I tend to agree with 95% of what I see you post but we differ on this one. 
 

Some clubs don’t have family memberships. One person is a member and has their name on the membership. Their spouse and dependents are listed as so. They have playing privileges based on their relation to the member. During certain times of the week playing privileges are limited to members only or members and a limited about of guests. There are also times where only juniors are allowed to be on the tee sheet. 
 

The club I know best isn’t anti junior golf at all. They host a major junior invitational where they don’t even collect entry fees. The members sponsor promising high school and college golfers by allowing them access to the club for free. And they frequently have Evans Scholars. The club has dedicated junior club and parent child championship ships along with weekly junior camps during the summer. 
 

This is commonly done as a way to maintain a strict member cap. Say the club is capped at 250 members. If you consider spouses and dependents to be members then that number balloons and tee time availability would become an issue. So would space in the bag and locker rooms.

 

For reference, this is a Golf Club without a pool, tennis court, and other amenities found at a typical country club. They also have a no tee time policy. Check in at the golf shop and you will be off within 20 minutes almost guaranteed. 

[tiger1873]

 

2 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I tend to agree with 95% of what I see you post but we differ on this one. 
 

Some clubs don’t have family memberships. One person is a member and has their name on the membership. Their spouse and dependents are listed as so. They have playing privileges based on their relation to the member. During certain times of the week playing privileges are limited to members only or members and a limited about of guests. There are also times where only juniors are allowed to be on the tee sheet. 
 

The club I know best isn’t anti junior golf at all. They host a major junior invitational where they don’t even collect entry fees. The members sponsor promising high school and college golfers by allowing them access to the club for free. And they frequently have Evans Scholars. The club has dedicated junior club and parent child championship ships along with weekly junior camps during the summer. 
 

This is commonly done as a way to maintain a strict member cap. Say the club is capped at 250 members. If you consider spouses and dependents to be members then that number balloons and tee time availability would become an issue. So would space in the bag and locker rooms.

 

For reference, this is a Golf Club without a pool, tennis court, and other amenities found at a typical country club. They also have a no tee time policy. Check in at the golf shop and you will be off within 20 minutes almost guaranteed. 

 

 

There are lot different types of country clubs out there.  What you are describing is what I call more of a golf course then country club. They most likely spell out the membership when you join.  People call it a club but it's not what I call a traditional club by any means and they never promise you that either. 

 

Most of us are talking about a large country club with a very large budget and charging $1500 or more a month to just play in addition to a very large initiation fee which is usually $50k or more upfront to join. They sell themselves as center of your social life with the family. 

 

You basically join it because it a safe place for your family. At least that is what you are told when you joined.  Now if you pay that kind of money you expect everyone in your family to be treated equally and with respect and dignity.   Now imagine if you did this and after a few years your kids can not practice in the morning or play on the course and your kids should not workout in the gym or swim at the pool. or play  even play tennis and be told you can't do social events with the kids anymore and then told you need to sell your house or the HOA will fine you because you don't belong.  How would you feel?

 

 

 

 

 

[StudentGolfer4]

7 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

So what happens when your wife decides to play. Under your logic she is not a member.  I don't know many women who allow their husbands to join with your logic.  I been a member of multiple clubs and they are all the same.  The whole family are all members with all the same privileges as anyone else.

 

You have 1 vote per membership who decides to allocate the vote is up the family.  But my wife could have voted on anything and dispute bills just like me.    In fact when we resigned they didn't care who signed the letter.

 

You view is out of date and something from 1950's that really never existed.

The member is allowed to play whenever the tee sheet is open to members.
 

Many clubs have the tee sheet blocked at specific times for certain groups. On Tuesday and Thursday mornings the tee sheet is blocked off for ladies during the morning for a couple of hours. If you’re a lady you can tee off. No one else can during this time. Wednesday mornings during the summer juniors have the tee box. They are the only ones allowed to tee off. During weekend mornings from when the tee box opens to 10am members have the box. They are permitted to bring 1 guest during that time. 
 

If my wife wanted to join me at 8am Saturday morning that is not permitted, assuming I am the member.  If I wanted to join her at 9am Tuesday morning I am not allowed because the tee sheet is blocked off for ladies.

 

This club also has ladies who are the primary member and can play whenever they want to. It’s their spouse that has restricted hours of play. There are also married couples that each have their own individual membership. The key is the tee sheet isn’t blocked off for men on Saturday mornings. It’s blocked off for members. 
 

These hours of play are well known throughout the club and perspective members are made aware before they join. If someone has a problem with it then they don’t join. 
 

Regarding your pace of play comment that no clubs have pros that drive out to enforce. Pace got a bit slow for a bit, say 4:15ish. All groups were given a little tracker to keep with them during the round. If a group was found to be the one playing slow, members would receive a letter in their locker with a notice. After the 3rd playing privileges were restricted for a week. After 2 months all rounds were back under 4 hours.  
 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by StudentGolfer4

[Abh159]

Man... another somewhat innocent thread in the junior forum has turned into a heated debate! 

 

I don't know what I would do if I came in here and didn't see a chain of posts from tiger talking about how every private club is an apocalyptic hellscape out to punish anyone who joins 🤣.

 

FWIW I've never been involved with a club (as a junior or an adult) where I wasn't made aware of any policies or restrictions during the application process. If you don't like the rules then don't join. Seems pretty simple to me.

[StudentGolfer4]

22 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

 

There are lot different types of country clubs out there.  What you are describing is what I call more of a golf course then country club. They most likely spell out the membership when you join.  People call it a club but it's not what I call a traditional club by any means and they never promise you that either. 

 

Most of us are talking about a large country club with a very large budget and charging $1500 or more a month to just play in addition to a very large initiation fee which is usually $50k or more upfront to join. They sell themselves as center of your social life with the family. 

 

You basically join it because it a safe place for your family. At least that is what you are told when you joined.  Now if you pay that kind of money you expect everyone in your family to be treated equally and with respect and dignity.   Now imagine if you did this and after a few years your kids can not practice in the morning or play on the course and your kids should not workout in the gym or swim at the pool. or play  even play tennis and be told you can't do social events with the kids anymore and then told you need to sell your house or the HOA will fine you because you don't belong.  How would you feel?

 

 

 

 

 

I would agree we are describing different type of clubs. This is also why I specified it’s a golf club and not a country club.

 

I don’t believe the cost has anything to do with it though. The place I am referring to is by far the nicest and most expensive place in the city. From 2010-20 when other clubs were looking for members and cutting initiation and dues they were increasing theirs and the wait list kept getting longer. Several members at this club also belong to the local country club down the road because their wives want to play pickle ball and their kids enjoy the pool. 
 

In your example, I would be upset if there was a sudden change in rules like this. If the rules were in place from the time I joined then that would be my own fault. After reading this thread I didn’t get the feeling that the rules just changed overnight, but maybe i just missed that part. 
 

One of the most important things a club of any sort can do is have explicitly defined rules and enforce them. That will prevent issues like this from occurring.
 

Another club I’m familiar with is currently having a similar issue because of the family membership thing and poorly defined rules/bylaws. Husband wife and 2 kids are on a family membership. Parents get divorced. Both husband and wife want to continue on with their membership but the club is full and has a wait list. Believe it or not it’s caused quite the rift in the clubs social scene as people argue and debate who should be offered the opportunity to keep the membership. 

[Petethreeput]

1 hour ago, Movingday said:

Some interesting points in here. I have a couple thoughts/questions. I start this by saying that I’ve never been a member of a private club so have no insight into how they operate. 
1. I understand the idea of some designated times for the “primary” member of all memberships cost the same. At these clubs is it the same cost for a single person and a family of 4 to be members? If that’s the case could I designate my son as the primary member and he get the preferential tee times instead of me?

2. I love the idea of juniors “testing out” with the pro to get more playing privileges. Most of the people in here have kids that can play, but the majority out there can’t and I can see that causing problems. 
3. My boys have a membership at a local public course. It is heavily discounted and comes with time restrictions. As much as it sucks it’s still better than paying full never rate imo. If I wanted them to get priority times I could pay the full adult membership and they would be able to play anytime. 

 

 

I can say our pros are very "pro junior golf" and hold clinics, camps, PGA Jr League, and everything else.  It has been an absolute boon to the membership as these kids expose their parents to the course and the club.  I don't think a pro who isn't invested in junior golf would be willing to do all of this.  They identify the kids based on the clinics/camps and invite them to play for the "red towel."  I have had a couple of parents say these kids covet the red towel more than most other things.

 

Our club has tiered membership since singles have a different impact on the tee times.

 

When I was on the board and then President this was a morass of "if,thens, and buts..." when we began this program.  Once we got that buy in from the both the pro and the director of golf (they both wanted to do it, but how was the question).  We have also been incredibly fortunate to have two excellent individuals in those positions for the past 8 years, prior to these two we had years and years of not much happening in the admin office.

[klebs01]

38 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I would agree we are describing different type of clubs. This is also why I specified it’s a golf club and not a country club.

 

I don’t believe the cost has anything to do with it though. The place I am referring to is by far the nicest and most expensive place in the city. From 2010-20 when other clubs were looking for members and cutting initiation and dues they were increasing theirs and the wait list kept getting longer. Several members at this club also belong to the local country club down the road because their wives want to play pickle ball and their kids enjoy the pool. 
 

In your example, I would be upset if there was a sudden change in rules like this. If the rules were in place from the time I joined then that would be my own fault. After reading this thread I didn’t get the feeling that the rules just changed overnight, but maybe i just missed that part. 
 

One of the most important things a club of any sort can do is have explicitly defined rules and enforce them. That will prevent issues like this from occurring.
 

Another club I’m familiar with is currently having a similar issue because of the family membership thing and poorly defined rules/bylaws. Husband wife and 2 kids are on a family membership. Parents get divorced. Both husband and wife want to continue on with their membership but the club is full and has a wait list. Believe it or not it’s caused quite the rift in the clubs social scene as people argue and debate who should be offered the opportunity to keep the membership. 

I’ve heard stories of those divorce cases causing huge issues. One of the reasons we don’t have “family memberships”. Our bylaws are very clear that there is a person that is a member. Spouse and dependent kids that meet some requirements have access, playing and charging privileges in the members name. Makes those issues much clearer. 

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I would agree we are describing different type of clubs. This is also why I specified it’s a golf club and not a country club.

 

I don’t believe the cost has anything to do with it though. The place I am referring to is by far the nicest and most expensive place in the city. From 2010-20 when other clubs were looking for members and cutting initiation and dues they were increasing theirs and the wait list kept getting longer. Several members at this club also belong to the local country club down the road because their wives want to play pickle ball and their kids enjoy the pool. 
 

In your example, I would be upset if there was a sudden change in rules like this. If the rules were in place from the time I joined then that would be my own fault. After reading this thread I didn’t get the feeling that the rules just changed overnight, but maybe i just missed that part. 
 

One of the most important things a club of any sort can do is have explicitly defined rules and enforce them. That will prevent issues like this from occurring.
 

Another club I’m familiar with is currently having a similar issue because of the family membership thing and poorly defined rules/bylaws. Husband wife and 2 kids are on a family membership. Parents get divorced. Both husband and wife want to continue on with their membership but the club is full and has a wait list. Believe it or not it’s caused quite the rift in the clubs social scene as people argue and debate who should be offered the opportunity to keep the membership. 

what i am describing is exactly what happened. Basically all started after club decided they needed to merge with the local Hoa and new president took over because they didn’t like the board who recruited families and younger members  to move in and join the club because it was failing financially. The plan actually worked until they ran off families.

 

It’s one thing if you join a club and then don’t like the rules  it totally another thing if they decide to change things that effect your membership value after you join.

 

Based on conversations with other parents A lot other clubs in south florida have really become anti junior.   

 

Not all clubs are bad but if you end up dealing with a bad one it hard to join another one.  
 

If you have heard how crazy HOA’s act just imagine if your club became one and took over the HOA that runs your house.  
 

This is new thing that clubs are doing in south florida and is being sold to members and hoa in their communities.  

 

After the merger only people who love in the community can be members. 

 

Best clubs are ones that just care about the golf course or run by corporate managers. 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by tiger1873

[tiger1873]

5 hours ago, Abh159 said:

Man... another somewhat innocent thread in the junior forum has turned into a heated debate! 

 

I don't know what I would do if I came in here and didn't see a chain of posts from tiger talking about how every private club is an apocalyptic hellscape out to punish anyone who joins 🤣.

 

FWIW I've never been involved with a club (as a junior or an adult) where I wasn't made aware of any policies or restrictions during the application process. If you don't like the rules then don't join. Seems pretty simple to me.

I know it sounds simple if you don’t like the rules don’t join. 
 

But a lot clubs change rules after you join. Sometimes all it takes is someone to bring up a issue that never happens to institute a new rule. 
 

So in a few years after you make a little money join a club let me know how it is after they tell you you can’t play golf with your son who is better then half the membership.
 

Believe it or not that is the type of stupid things some these newer members bring up who never played much golf.

Edited February 4, 2023 by tiger1873

[kekoa]

11 hours ago, klebs01 said:

You need to get outside your bubble. Most junior can barely hit the ball out of their shadow. The odds a club has a 14 year old that’s a +2 and can hit it 280 is just about zero. Leave Saturday mornings for folks that want to have a money game and play in 3 hours. I’ll then go out with my 5 and 7 year olds at 430 and goof around. It’s funny, at the club EVERYONE gets this and it doesn’t even have to be discussed. The preferred tee times for folks are completely aligned to expectations. It’s only the odd person (very rate) that comes in thinking everyone should change and cater to them that is the issue. 

 And you need to get out of yours.  You obviously don't have a clue about real jr. golf.  I'm not talking about the 5 yr old who tags along with their dad to the club once in a while to chop it up.  That's great as well too though.  I never said the kid was a +2.  Just threw out a score to prove he can actually play the tips at said course.  Anyhow, he was obviously within the rules to play on a busy weekend morning because the starter let him go.

[Movingday]

29 minutes ago, kekoa said:

 And you need to get out of yours.  You obviously don't have a clue about real jr. golf.  I'm not talking about the 5 yr old who tags along with their dad to the club once in a while to chop it up.  That's great as well too though.  I never said the kid was a +2.  Just threw out a score to prove he can actually play the tips at said course.  Anyhow, he was obviously within the rules to play on a busy weekend morning because the starter let him go.

It’s hard for people to imagine how good a lot of these kids are. I had no idea how good junior golf was until my kids started playing. 1st tournament was an eye opener! 

[MWhack]

16 hours ago, klebs01 said:

ha. You state it right there. The junior isn’t a member and just has playing privileges under a parent’s membership. It has nothing to do with being afraid of losing money. It has to do with allocation of a scarce resource. That would be tee times at the most desirable time. The allocation goes preferentially to the members. The gets allocated after that. There is plenty of time for the juniors to play outside those couple hours. We have a great junior program and even have time set aside just for them on the course. Those times just are at the time that is in the most demand for members. 

what if the junior has a paid membership? its very common here that juniors have to pay either a much higher family price or junior membership for a reduced price. so they are full members, you still would say they shouldnt be allowed to play prime time?

[MWhack]

Btw by reading all this, I think, you argue about two different things.
If you have one member paying and he can have guests or family, they shouldnt get prime time. (I agree, thats why I always would put down my daughter as primary member, if the clubs accpet her, and i guess she would be checked on in most clubs and not just instantly refused)
If you have a Family membership, Junior membership, or the junior is paying full price, the family/junior is officially a member (primetime should be available for everyone if Club policies like pace of play or hdcp, not sure what you guys have there over sea, but nobody should be discriminated by age or gender in that case)

As said I think you guys talking about two complete different examples, Members by Contract should be able to play primetime, who really is considered as member you know it before you join, no reason to insult anyone for that here.
If I pay for example a family membership which cost 2x or similar and my wife and daughter are officially members i dont see a reason why they shouldnt play primetime (okay my wife dont play golf, but in genearl)

So I would say cool down and stop this pointless discussion as both have valid points and the type of memberships seem to be very different in every club.
As always I see Tiger here going crazy, but I personally doubt if you buy a family membership and in the contract you sign your kids are full member, that they can take away their status, pretty sure it would break laws, if your kids never have been considered as full member, they just had privileges to play its a different type of story this can be changed on demand

[Abh159]

13 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

I know it sounds simple if you don’t like the rules don’t join. 
 

But a lot clubs change rules after you join. Sometimes all it takes is someone to bring up a issue that never happens to institute a new rule. 
 

So in a few years after you make a little money join a club let me know how it is after they tell you you can’t play golf with your son who is better then half the membership.
 

Believe it or not that is the type of stupid things some these newer members bring up who never played much golf.

I’ve been a part of 5 different private clubs over the past 20+ years both as a junior player and now as an adult. Some had tee time restrictions for certain groups (including men) and some didn’t. 

Never once at any of those clubs have they “instituted new rules”.

 

If all the clubs you’ve been a part of started changing the rules after you joined you might want to take a moment and think about why that is…

[heavy_hitter]

18 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I tend to agree with 95% of what I see you post but we differ on this one. 
 

Some clubs don’t have family memberships. One person is a member and has their name on the membership. Their spouse and dependents are listed as so. They have playing privileges based on their relation to the member. During certain times of the week playing privileges are limited to members only or members and a limited about of guests. There are also times where only juniors are allowed to be on the tee sheet. 
 

 

This simply isn't true anymore.  It may be in your area, but not in Florida and other places.

Edited February 4, 2023 by heavy_hitter

[heavy_hitter]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:12 AM, klebs01 said:

The odds a club has a 14 year old that’s a +2 and can hit it 280 is just about zero. Leave Saturday mornings for folks that want to have a money game and play in 3 hours. 

You really need to get out more.  Most of the juniors in this forum that are 14+ are better than your 0.8 and hitting it more than 280.  These kids will walk in less than 3 hours.  Several kids at our club and others in our town at 14 that are + handicaps.  They are honestly a dime a dozen in Florida.  As a 0.8 playing in a USGA Junior Qualifier you are probably coming in the last 1/3 of the competition.

[klebs01]

5 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

You really need to get out more.  Most of the juniors in this forum that are 14+ are better than your 0.8 and hitting it more than 280.  These kids will walk in less than 3 hours.  Several kids at our club and others in our town at 14 that are + handicaps.  They are honestly a dime a dozen in Florida.  As a 0.8 playing in a USGA Junior Qualifier you are probably coming in the last 1/3 of the competition.

 Nah. I’m good. Are the really kids in this forum or is it mostly parents living vicariously through their kids?  
 

there are several plus kids at your club? Cool. That’s probably less than 1% of the kids at your club. Real junior golf is the other 99% and what club rules address. 

 

I’m familiar with competitive golf, but I’m not playing in any junior events. That ship sailed a long time ago. 
 

What’s great is that club cultures and rules can vary. I have no interest in being a part of a club like you describe are common in south Florida. That club culture is seems very different that exists in my region. Y’all have fun at your clubs in south Florida that constantly change rules. I’ll keep enjoying my club and our excellent real junior program that keeps it fun for kids and somehow still managed to produce some pros (not that I would encourage my kids to pursue that).

[tiger1873]

33 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

I’ve been a part of 5 different private clubs over the past 20+ years both as a junior player and now as an adult. Some had tee time restrictions for certain groups (including men) and some didn’t. 

Never once at any of those clubs have they “instituted new rules”.

 

If all the clubs you’ve been a part of started changing the rules after you joined you might want to take a moment and think about why that is…

All clubs change rules all the time. Some times it makes sense like the first club that fired the ranger and kicked out a few members who thought they were above women and juniors who didn’t like the new rules allowing everyone to play on any tee time.

 

would be still at this club if it wasn’t for relocation.

 

[tiger1873]

S

43 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

 Nah. I’m good. Are the really kids in this forum or is it mostly parents living vicariously through their kids?  
 

there are several plus kids at your club? Cool. That’s probably less than 1% of the kids at your club. Real junior golf is the other 99% and what club rules address. 

 

I’m familiar with competitive golf, but I’m not playing in any junior events. That ship sailed a long time ago. 
 

What’s great is that club cultures and rules can vary. I have no interest in being a part of a club like you describe are common in south Florida. That club culture is seems very different that exists in my region. Y’all have fun at your clubs in south Florida that constantly change rules. I’ll keep enjoying my club and our excellent real junior program that keeps it fun for kids and somehow still managed to produce some pros (not that I would encourage my kids to pursue that).

You don’t get it do you. Almost everyone I know joins a club because it’s a place to relax.  Most them are horrible golfers. 

 

There the type of golfers who switch out a bad ball to go over water.  
 

This may not be your club but that is what the vast majority of clubs are out there. You club sounds a lot like how cheap public courses are run with crazy rangers and rules.

 

The best golfers are tournament golfers who travel around.  Kids who get into golf end up playing a lot tournaments if they play a lot.  The are the ones buying clubs and taking lessons not the average member.  They also are the ones who can educate people like you on rules and how to play ready golf.

 

If regular member brings a kid out maybe that kid can’t play but i guarantee you will not see them ever again. If a kid likes golf they almost always get lessons and end up being one the best golfers out there in less then 6 months. I never met a kid who played golf on a regular basis that wasn’t a great playing partner.

You never mentioned why you care who is playing in other peoples group. Why do you care? Maybe you are doing something your ashamed when your out there on a Saturday morning??

Edited February 4, 2023 by tiger1873

[StudentGolfer4]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

This simply isn't true anymore.  It may be in your area, but not in Florida and other places.

What I said is 100% true. “Some clubs don’t have family memberships.” I never claimed it was that way in Florida or at the majority of clubs. I agree, the majority of courses do offer a family membership. Near me, there’s usually a full golf membership that is a family membership like you’re referring to, and a single adult membership that is just for 1 person.
 

Again, some clubs don’t offer a family membership. Go ask Whisper Rock about a family membership and see what they say. I know a handful of caddies at Seminole. They have restricted times for members as well. That does not include spouses or dependents. 
 

@tiger1873 sorry that your club changed the rules overnight like that. Hopefully there’s a positive resolution for you and your family. 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by StudentGolfer4

[klebs01]

42 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

S

You don’t get it do you. Almost everyone I know joins a club because it’s a place to relax.  Most them are horrible golfers. 

 

There the type of golfers who switch out a bad ball to go over water.  
 

This may not be your club but that is what the vast majority of clubs are out there. You club sounds a lot like how cheap public courses are run with crazy rangers and rules.

 

The best golfers are tournament golfers who travel around.  Kids who get into golf end up playing a lot tournaments if they play a lot.  The are the ones buying clubs and taking lessons not the average member.  They also are the ones who can educate people like you on rules and how to play ready golf.

 

If regular member brings a kid out maybe that kid can’t play but i guarantee you will not see them ever again. If a kid likes golf they almost always get lessons and end up being one the best golfers out there in less then 6 months. I never met a kid who played golf on a regular basis that wasn’t a great playing partner.

You never mentioned why you care who is playing in other peoples group. Why do you care? Maybe you are doing something your ashamed when your out there on a Saturday morning??

You’re funny. I’m not exactly sure what I don’t get. I joined a club to relax as well and agree most members aren’t good golfers. Haven’t seen any switch to a water all though. 
 

Club doesn’t really have many rules, no rangers or starters. Just started having tee times two years ago. Pretty casual actually. Pace of play is generally around 3:30 walking on weekend mornings, even with 5 somes. The nice thing about a small membership with social cohesion is that people voluntarily adhere to expectations without much need for enforcement. 
 

Do the best kids play tournament golf, sure. They don’t represent a material percent of the junior rounds played at the club. Most of those are just families having fun. This is the group that rules reflect.
 

I did address why I care who plays at certain times, and it has to do with retaining value for members, who generally work during the week, and drive the financial success of the club. As stated before, I don’t have a problem with one 17yo scratch or +4 playing with a group at 8am. Open that up and have 50 kids without skill playing, slowing down play and taking spots from members and the club would be in trouble. 
 

So, why should a successful club that meets its members’ needs change to accommodate you outlier kid?

[ChipDriver]

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

S

You don’t get it do you. Almost everyone I know joins a club because it’s a place to relax.  Most them are horrible golfers. 

 

There the type of golfers who switch out a bad ball to go over water.  
 

This may not be your club but that is what the vast majority of clubs are out there. You club sounds a lot like how cheap public courses are run with crazy rangers and rules.

 

The best golfers are tournament golfers who travel around.  Kids who get into golf end up playing a lot tournaments if they play a lot.  The are the ones buying clubs and taking lessons not the average member.  They also are the ones who can educate people like you on rules and how to play ready golf.

 

If regular member brings a kid out maybe that kid can’t play but i guarantee you will not see them ever again. If a kid likes golf they almost always get lessons and end up being one the best golfers out there in less then 6 months. I never met a kid who played golf on a regular basis that wasn’t a great playing partner.

You never mentioned why you care who is playing in other peoples group. Why do you care? Maybe you are doing something your ashamed when your out there on a Saturday morning??

I don't think that you get it either.  You use hyperbole and nameless faceless examples to try and make your points.  It seems clear to me that your experience is limited with top level clubs and their members.   With respect - I call BS.  What you suggest are emotional reactions to situations you're creating out of fantasy - not reality.   I am familiar with several recognized clubs in DC/SF/HI and there are several excellent young players - who play "all the time" with the members without any issues.   Why?  B/c they are good players; courteous; and they don't act like prima donnas.   In a word - they were raised the right way to respect golfers who play the game....they don't hold themselves out as prima donnas as you seem to do - based on their ability.   As with any golfers - we don't care how well you play - we care THAT you play...and that you are friendly, courteous, and civil.     ANYONE who doesn't exhibit those characteristics is a problem - and will often garner a complaint.  To be clear - we've had several A-list celebrities and even a former POTUS or two who have sought but not been offered membership b/c of the way they have acted towards others.   It's not just kids.  In a word if the kid is good - the head pro will know.  And he'll make a good decision that respects the complaining member; the kid; and the kid's parent/member.  That's how most clubs know how to handle things IMO.  You may know of clubs and know about members - but you clearly don't really "know".  I am guessing that your exposure has been limited - perhaps in part due to your attitude.  Kidding.   But seriously -  NONE of the things you complain about actually happen at the several clubs where I am a member or play regularly. NONE.  Young talented players are as accepted everywhere there - and the touchstone is civility...not talent.

Edited February 4, 2023 by ChipDriver

[tiger1873]

Some you don’t get and never will.  The anger some you have is obvious over juniors.

 

you all think you belong to Augusta national but don’t.

The best thing about this thread is it will be here to see for other parents to see how they may be treated by so called righteous members.

 

Nobody said there joining a club where a bunch of drunks play. No one that has kids join that. We we are talking about clubs that encourage families to join.

 

Also just because it doesn’t happen or you choose to ignore what goes doesn’t mean stuff doesn’t happen.

 

also a lot head pro’s are actually treat juniors really bad.  Ask Rick Pano and he will tell you stories that happened to alexa that will make you sick that anyone would treat little girl the way she was treated.