Grumpy CC members complaining about Juniors.....

[heavy_hitter]

On 2/11/2023 at 6:56 PM, mizuno player said:

 

 

The big one was our driving range was limited in distance. We did have a higher fence that made the carry over a good poke. We even had restricted flight balls to help. But if were a big hitter you could hit it over and most balls were not retrievable. 

 

Anyway these three teenagers were doing nothing except swinging as hard as they could to keep hitting balls over the fence. It went on for awhile I said. Guys please. I know it's fun but those balls are lost. Then we run short and won't have enough to practice with. You hit a few over cool. Now move to a club that doesn't go over. Thanks. Yes, they got all pissed and said some BS. I didn't care as I was polite. 

 

 

Not your job to say anything.

[StudentGolfer4]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

Not your job to say anything.

Why is that? Members need to show pride and take ownership of their course. If someone in my group isn’t following cart path rules or fixing ball marks and replacing divots I’m 100% going to say something. The “not my problem” attitude makes no sense. 

[heavy_hitter]

15 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Why is that? Members need to show pride and take ownership of their course. If someone in my group isn’t following cart path rules or fixing ball marks and replacing divots I’m 100% going to say something. The “not my problem” attitude makes no sense. 

 

Again, not your job to say anything.  My response to you in either of those situations would be the same.  "Mind your own business."  If you have a problem talk to the Pro and allow him to say something.  The first time a member said something to me at our club was the last time.  The same if you said something.

Edited February 13, 2023 by heavy_hitter

[mizuno player]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

Not your job to say anything.

May I ask why not?  I'm a dies paying member whose dues will go up because of their actions. I was nice. Also, I was president of the member council. Regardless, it was appropriate to say something. Nicely. 

[tiger1873]

54 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Why is that? Members need to show pride and take ownership of their course. If someone in my group isn’t following cart path rules or fixing ball marks and replacing divots I’m 100% going to say something. The “not my problem” attitude makes no sense. 

 

The reason this becomes a problem is other members decide they can complain about anything. Going around tattling on other members is what causes problems.  It makes members think they can control others which is a major issue and can cause fights.

 

This the job of the staff to protect and enforce rules.  Someone should be out there watching ranges and the course at all times it is open.  It's not your job or place to enforce rules.   

 

If staff doesn't enforce the rules someone should be fired. So many of these clubs keep lazy pro's who do not do their job.

 

In this case the design of the range is very poor. If your losing balls because someone pulls out a driver and this is not a temporary issue then something needs to change.   No reason a net is not installed to stop the ball or deflighted balls are brought so they can't hit out the range.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by tiger1873

[tiger1873]

Here is why people need to mind there own business on their range.  My daughter see's one the top ranked coaches in the world.  Has what most would describe as pretty nice swing and technique

 

At the club I left people would complain she was taking divots on the range and she needs to learn how to not taking divot because she is destroying the range.  It got the point she couldn't practice on the range with certain people.

 

 

 

 

[mshills]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Not your job to say anything.

 

Situational awareness.

 

At a public range, right, mind your business and let the owner of the range deal with it.

 

At a private club, the guy who spoke up is (one of) the owner(s) of the club, and has every right to say something.  As I read that post, the kids were teens and knew full well they were out of order, so @mizuno player did the right thing by politely telling them to chill.

[tiger1873]

4 minutes ago, mshills said:

 

Situational awareness.

 

At a public range, right, mind your business and let the owner of the range deal with it.

 

At a private club, the guy who spoke up is (one of) the owner(s) of the club, and has every right to say something.  As I read that post, the kids were teens and knew full well they were out of order, so @mizuno player did the right thing by politely telling them to chill.

 

This is the problem with club members they don't own the club. They have an interest and the board is what decides are the rules.

 

When the average member goes around and thinks they own it you end up with lots of problems.

 

If the guys was the actual owner then why didn't he get a hired hand to deal with it.

[StudentGolfer4]

59 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

The reason this becomes a problem is other members decide they can complain about anything. Going around tattling on other members is what causes problems.  It makes members think they can control others which is a major issue and can cause fights.

 

This the job of the staff to protect and enforce rules.  Someone should be out there watching ranges and the course at all times it is open.  It's not your job or place to enforce rules.   

 

If staff doesn't enforce the rules someone should be fired. So many of these clubs keep lazy pro's who do not do their job.

 

In this case the design of the range is very poor. If your losing balls because someone pulls out a driver and this is not a temporary issue then something needs to change.   No reason a net is not installed to stop the ball or deflighted balls are brought so they can't hit out the range.

 

 

I agree it’s not the best range design but it is what it is. Much easier to follow the rules than put up a 100ft net and increase dues to pay for it. Just because something isn’t designed most efficiently, for instance the driving range setup, doesn’t mean you can disregard the rules. 

 

I know pros don’t want to deal with members playing tattle tale but that’s not what happened here. Members were not following the rules, member politely addressed their behavior and both parties moved on.
 

We completely disagree with what the job or pros and staff at a country club are. They shouldn’t have to police behavior and what happens on course or around the club. You’re a dues paying member that voluntarily signed up. Abide by the rules, go through the proper channels to change them, or go elsewhere. Maybe it’s a culture and South Florida thing but I can’t imagine being at a place where member behavior needs to be constantly watched to make sure they’re doing the right thing. 
 

@heavy_hitter I would say what goes on at a club I belong to is my business. If someone is taking range balls, stealing towels, not fixing ball marks, etc, that’s my business. I can’t imagine the need to act like a tough guy if another member called me out for not following club rules. Honestly, I would be embarrassed that my behavior was not in line with the expectations. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by StudentGolfer4

[Abh159]

4 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

 

@heavy_hitter I would say what goes on at a club I belong to is my business. If someone is taking range balls, stealing towels, not fixing ball marks, etc, that’s my business. I can’t imagine the need to act like a tough guy if another member called me out for not following club rules. Honestly, I would be embarrassed that my behavior was not in line with the expectations. 

 

Couldn't agree more. At a private club, especially a member-owned one, it is every member's responsibility to make sure the course and club are cared for.

 

If myself or anyone else saw another member not fixing ball marks, destroying a tee marker after a bad drive, driving a cart onto a tee or near a green, or dropping a shag bag worth of balls to practice on the course it would absolutely not be out of line to say something. I would go as far as to say it's expected you say something.

 

If they responded with a "tough guy" type attitude I can 100% guarantee they would be getting a disciplinary discussion from the membership committee. 

[Bizzle80]

19 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Certainly no way to behave is right……does make me wonder though….I really doubt the crass members acted this way from day one of her employment there.   So my questions would be why did she put up with the increasingly poor treatment and how exactly did it start?

 

Read the article. it started from the jump. she was even warned by previous cart girl. she immediately went to management to report, but they basically told her the members could act how they wanted...and she was encouraged to just put up with it.

[Shilgy]

5 minutes ago, Bizzle80 said:

 

Read the article. it started from the jump. she was even warned by previous cart girl. she immediately went to management to report, but they basically told her the members could act how they wanted...and she was encouraged to just put up with it.

Walk away.  “Forced to do alcohol and drugs”? C’mon really? A bunch of old geezers held her down?

 

I don’t doubt the case has some validity…..but at some point-like on the first day- walk away and don’t come back. Don’t keep participating in their behavior and then cry foul.  She was warned by the previous cart girl and took the job anyways?  There are tons of employers everywhere looking for help.  No reason to even start at this place as described.

[tiger1873]

25 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I agree it’s not the best range design but it is what it is. Much easier to follow the rules than put up a 100ft net and increase dues to pay for it. Just because something isn’t designed most efficiently, for instance the driving range setup, doesn’t mean you can disregard the rules. 

 

I know pros don’t want to deal with members playing tattle tale but that’s not what happened here. Members were not following the rules, member politely addressed their behavior and both parties moved on.
 

We completely disagree with what the job or pros and staff at a country club are. They shouldn’t have to police behavior and what happens on course or around the club. You’re a dues paying member that voluntarily signed up. Abide by the rules, go through the proper channels to change them, or go elsewhere. Maybe it’s a culture and South Florida thing but I can’t imagine being at a place where member behavior needs to be constantly watched to make sure they’re doing the right thing. 
 

@heavy_hitter I would say what goes on at a club I belong to is my business. If someone is taking range balls, stealing towels, not fixing ball marks, etc, that’s my business. I can’t imagine the need to act like a tough guy if another member called me out for not following club rules. Honestly, I would be embarrassed that my behavior was not in line with the expectations. 

 

Clubs in south Florida are a different animal.  If you see how they operate it would be shock to most people. Basically they are filled with people who don't like golf and only do it as a social function. 

 

First hand seen how pro's make people look out there  windows to reward them if they tattle on anyone. Then they do selective enforcement. 

 

Once you see a club  doing selective enforcing rules it becomes pretty apparent the General Manager and Club Pro are not doing their job.

 

Rules are fine but some clubs don't enforce them evenly.  This why it becomes such an issue. 

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, mshills said:

 

Situational awareness.

 

At a public range, right, mind your business and let the owner of the range deal with it.

 

At a private club, the guy who spoke up is (one of) the owner(s) of the club, and has every right to say something.  As I read that post, the kids were teens and knew full well they were out of order, so @mizuno player did the right thing by politely telling them to chill.

Again....  don't care what your excuse is.  Mind your own business.

[tiger1873]

3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Walk away.  “Forced to do alcohol and drugs”? C’mon really? A bunch of old geezers held her down?

 

I don’t doubt the case has some validity…..but at some point-like on the first day- walk away and don’t come back. Don’t keep participating in their behavior and then cry foul.  She was warned by the previous cart girl and took the job anyways?  There are tons of employers everywhere looking for help.  No reason to even start at this place as described.

 

She worked for a large corporation since this not a private club they own 200 clubs.   If the article is true it's very disturbing.  No decent person would condone anything in that article.

 

No one just reading news articles knows what happens.  But she deserve to heard out and if even 1/10 is true the book needs to thrown at them.

[Bizzle80]

3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Walk away.  “Forced to do alcohol and drugs”? C’mon really? A bunch of old geezers held her down?

 

I don’t doubt the case has some validity…..but at some point-like on the first day- walk away and don’t come back. Don’t keep participating in their behavior and then cry foul.  She was warned by the previous cart girl and took the job anyways?  There are tons of employers everywhere looking for help.  No reason to even start at this place as described.

 

I feel like maybe you have this backwards. She should be allowed to do her job and not be harassed...and its a lot harder for a young person to push back against people that are sort of her employers and elders, especially in a group situation. Pressure is real, and it notes guys actually poured alcohol on her without her permission. 

 

I am sure the majority of the members were pleasant and nice people, but it only takes a few group of a******* to make it a terrible work environment.

 

If your answer is to simply walk away and quit your job/school/life anytime someone is harassing you, I think you should reconsider your approach. Its not her responsibility to not be harassed, its her employers responsibility to make sure she isn't.

 

 

[heavy_hitter]

26 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Couldn't agree more. At a private club, especially a member-owned one, it is every member's responsibility to make sure the course and club are cared for.

 

If myself or anyone else saw another member not fixing ball marks, destroying a tee marker after a bad drive, driving a cart onto a tee or near a green, or dropping a shag bag worth of balls to practice on the course it would absolutely not be out of line to say something. I would go as far as to say it's expected you say something.

 

If they responded with a "tough guy" type attitude I can 100% guarantee they would be getting a disciplinary discussion from the membership committee. 

Nothing you mentioned is a reasonable interaction with someone you don't know.  Tell the people that need to be told at the club and move on.  Members saying stuff is why the golf news recently has been hit with stories of members getting into altercations.  You have no business saying anything to another member.

[tiger1873]

31 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

 

If myself or anyone else saw another member not fixing ball marks, destroying a tee marker after a bad drive, driving a cart onto a tee or near a green, or dropping a shag bag worth of balls to practice on the course it would absolutely not be out of line to say something. I would go as far as to say it's expected you say something.

 

 

If this is going on at your club it speaks volumes about your members.   Pople join clubs to enjoy themselves. Usually they can what every they want to do as long is doesn't effect anyone else or destroy property. 

 

If you club has to have members go around and nitpick everyone it just plain sucks.

[heavy_hitter]

48 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I agree it’s not the best range design but it is what it is. Much easier to follow the rules than put up a 100ft net and increase dues to pay for it. Just because something isn’t designed most efficiently, for instance the driving range setup, doesn’t mean you can disregard the rules. 

 

I know pros don’t want to deal with members playing tattle tale but that’s not what happened here. Members were not following the rules, member politely addressed their behavior and both parties moved on.
 

We completely disagree with what the job or pros and staff at a country club are. They shouldn’t have to police behavior and what happens on course or around the club. You’re a dues paying member that voluntarily signed up. Abide by the rules, go through the proper channels to change them, or go elsewhere. Maybe it’s a culture and South Florida thing but I can’t imagine being at a place where member behavior needs to be constantly watched to make sure they’re doing the right thing. 
 

@heavy_hitter I would say what goes on at a club I belong to is my business. If someone is taking range balls, stealing towels, not fixing ball marks, etc, that’s my business. I can’t imagine the need to act like a tough guy if another member called me out for not following club rules. Honestly, I would be embarrassed that my behavior was not in line with the expectations. 

Has zero to do with being a tough guy.  You aren't the rules or policy enforcer.  Like I said "If it were me, it would be the last time you said something to me."  Mind your own business.  I would be embarrassed being the guy saying something.  Saying something directly to another member is a great way to get your bleep kicked.  Go to the staff and have them take care of it, it is their job, not yours.

Edited February 13, 2023 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

10 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Has zero to do with being a tough guy.  You are the rules or policy enforcer.  Like I said "If it were me, it would be the last time you said something to me."  Mind your own business.  I would be embarrassed being the guy saying something.  Saying something directly to another member is a great way to get your bleep kicked.  Go to the staff and have them take care of it, it is their job, not yours.

 

I can't imagine why people feel the need to talk to other members.  First off a lot these people are not members of a private club what is a modified public course.  You basically joined a gym membership. It's no different then a public course.

 

Now if you paid for equity owned club you only spent the extra money to not be bothered. This means you get to do what every heck you want to do. 

 

If someone is being a problem I have a paid staff to deal with it. Why would I risk making someone and everyone who likes them angry over them not following the rules.  Let them be mad at the staff and if the rule is stupid or not enforced  then it's the General Managers Problem and he needs to find a new job.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by tiger1873

[Abh159]

4 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Nothing you mentioned is a reasonable interaction with someone you don't know.  Tell the people that need to be told at the club and move on.  Members saying stuff is why the golf news recently has been hit with stories of members getting into altercations.  You have no business saying anything to another member.

 

Maybe this is a case of different cultures in different parts of the country... A lot of those news stories you're referring to do seem to come from the sunshine state so if that is the private club culture you've been exposed to I can certainly understand your point of view.

 

FWIW I've never been a part of or even heard of an interaction between two members (even if they don't know each other) turning into a brawl. 9 times out of 10 the "culprit" is embarrassed by their actions and the situation is resolved politely and respectfully. I can promise the person would much rather have another member say something to them as opposed to club leadership where a possible suspension from the club could be on the table.

 

[tiger1873]

3 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Maybe this is a case of different cultures in different parts of the country... A lot of those news stories you're referring to do seem to come from the sunshine state so if that is the private club culture you've been exposed to I can certainly understand your point of view.

 

FWIW I've never been a part of or even heard of an interaction between two members (even if they don't know each other) turning into a brawl. 9 times out of 10 the "culprit" is embarrassed by their actions and the situation is resolved politely and respectfully. I can promise the person would much rather have another member say something to them as opposed to club leadership where a possible suspension from the club could be on the table.

 

 

I lived in Texas and the fights between members was way worse then Florida.  I am talking about actual fist fights where you have call police.

 

You don't get enough money to join a club but being a wuss.

[Shilgy]

31 minutes ago, Bizzle80 said:

 

I feel like maybe you have this backwards. She should be allowed to do her job and not be harassed...and its a lot harder for a young person to push back against people that are sort of her employers and elders, especially in a group situation. Pressure is real, and it notes guys actually poured alcohol on her without her permission. 

 

I am sure the majority of the members were pleasant and nice people, but it only takes a few group of a******* to make it a terrible work environment.

 

If your answer is to simply walk away and quit your job/school/life anytime someone is harassing you, I think you should reconsider your approach. Its not her responsibility to not be harassed, its her employers responsibility to make sure she isn't.

 

 

Agree and disagree…..she definitely “should” be able to do her job without being harassed.  You mention the “pouring alcohol on her” incident.  I really doubt that type of behavior happened from day 1.  She either encouraged or allowed the escalating behavior without complaint.

 

Regardless, there is certainly no excuse for that type of behavior by members but yeah….a simple solution is walk away.  It not worth the hassle to stay.

[mshills]

51 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

You have no business saying anything to another member.

What the heck kind of club do you belong to?

Oh, you're trolling, so never mind.  You can save the clap-back too.

[kcap]

My sense is that all the differences in opinion are driven by the type of club, members and culture. 

 

I have been corrected and "have" corrected other members on the course.  It is not confrontational,  but polite and in most cases  a function of the fellow member not realizing the issue.  For eg.  if the course is really wet at our club then it is cart part only.   In various instances, i have reminded members or they told me.   It is not big deal, and if anyone said "mind your own business".  My guess is that would get a letter from the membership committee and get thrown out.  

 

My club has ton of rules around cell phone, dress, juniors, shoes, guest etc. Another example, one of my guest was wearing his golf hat in the grill room - not allowed. Frankly, I did not realize it, and kudos to the another member for not telling my guest but letting me know on the side.  I asked my guest to remove his hat. No big deal!  We have a specific culture, where the club is like family and everyone knows everyone.   And yes, i talk to all the members, i see them at social events, golf course, wine tastings, dinners etc. 

 

We all treat the club like it is our own but do not act like we own the place. 

 

i can see where HH and Tiger are coming from but again that culture is not true in my club.  

 

[tiger1873]

18 minutes ago, kcap said:

My sense is that all the differences in opinion are driven by the type of club, members and culture. 

 

I have been corrected and "have" corrected other members on the course.  It is not confrontational,  but polite and in most cases  a function of the fellow member not realizing the issue.  For eg.  if the course is really wet at our club then it is cart part only.   In various instances, i have reminded members or they told me.   It is not big deal, and if anyone said "mind your own business".  My guess is that would get a letter from the membership committee and get thrown out.  

 

My club has ton of rules around cell phone, dress, juniors, shoes, guest etc. Another example, one of my guest was wearing his golf hat in the grill room - not allowed. Frankly, I did not realize it, and kudos to the another member for not telling my guest but letting me know on the side.  I asked my guest to remove his hat. No big deal!  We have a specific culture, where the club is like family and everyone knows everyone.   And yes, i talk to all the members, i see them at social events, golf course, wine tastings, dinners etc. 

 

We all treat the club like it is our own but do not act like we own the place. 

 

i can see where HH and Tiger are coming from but again that culture is not true in my club.  

 

 

For me it's not about following rules but having everyone follow the same rules.  Now I will admit I ran into a highly discriminating place against families. So much so there is a federal investigation  going on about it over discrimination.

 

But when you see board members allowing grand kids to wear flip flops and the GM says my kids are not welcome in the dining room you got  major problem at a club that does that.

 

You name it they went out their way to  hurt my daughter performance and my younger girl couldn't even play golf.  The sad thing is wasn't just my family but others who live there as well.  Kids were not even allowed to practice with high school team at this place despite it being told as an option to me when I joined.

 

It wasn't just my family but others as well, Banned from Gym, the clubhouse and etc.  All this happened after covid and the fear that kids doing tournaments are going to give it to them.

 

At the end of the day I found out any club worth joining is one where people keep to themselves and don't care what others do. I have seen them out there but it still pretty hurtful what when on. 

 

 

 

[MB19]

5 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

Maybe this is a case of different cultures in different parts of the country... A lot of those news stories you're referring to do seem to come from the sunshine state so if that is the private club culture you've been exposed to I can certainly understand your point of view.

Thumbing your nose at an entire state’s country club golf culture to win an argument is so on-brand for WRX 2023.

[heavy_hitter]

5 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

Maybe this is a case of different cultures in different parts of the country... A lot of those news stories you're referring to do seem to come from the sunshine state so if that is the private club culture you've been exposed to I can certainly understand your point of view.

 

FWIW I've never been a part of or even heard of an interaction between two members (even if they don't know each other) turning into a brawl. 9 times out of 10 the "culprit" is embarrassed by their actions and the situation is resolved politely and respectfully. I can promise the person would much rather have another member say something to them as opposed to club leadership where a possible suspension from the club could be on the table.

 

It is called, don’t enter my personal

space unless I tell you to.  Grown up kind of stuff.  This isn’t social media where you get your comment in.  It is real life stuff.  Close your mouth and tell the management.  If you said something to me, will probably deck you because I am probably not doing anything wrong.  I don’t have to explain myself to you.  Mind your business.

[heavy_hitter]

5 hours ago, mshills said:

What the heck kind of club do you belong to?

Oh, you're trolling, so never mind.  You can save the clap-back too.

Who said I did?  Not trolling.  If another member said something to me would put them in their place real quick.  I don’t have to answer to other members.  😂 

 

It isn’t the world of social media where you can have your comment in someones post.  Real life comments can have real life consequences.  Remember that boys and girls.

Edited February 14, 2023 by heavy_hitter

[pingfool]

And dont forget..  his junior can play as a twosome anytime they want because their +2

and if they want to ignore rules on the range and laugh when they hit driver over the net - you better mind you own business.

 

stay in florida billy bob