Jump to content

Can’t touch a branch?


Recommended Posts

https://www.facebook.com/USGA/videos/rules-of-golf-explained-playing-the-course-as-you-find-it/426051442990931/
 

I just saw this video and I had no idea this was coming. Anyone know where these (stupid) rules are and their penalties?

 

How in the world do we distinguish touching and leaning on a tree branch?

Ping-logo-283444624.jpeg 410LST 9º (TourX) RogueST 3D (ADDI 6X) [OMG what?], 425 3w 14.5º (TourX), 430 3h 19º & 4 iCross (HZRDUS Red 6.0), i230 5-U, G4 54º, GFP 59º (DART105F4). 2021 Fetch (BGT Tour Black).

"Golf is just a dance with a stick, and a ball tells you how good a dancer you are."  LCP150mm in your fairway should be a full-time rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

https://www.facebook.com/USGA/videos/rules-of-golf-explained-playing-the-course-as-you-find-it/426051442990931/
 

I just saw this video and I had no idea this was coming. Anyone know where these (stupid) rules are and their penalties? 1

 

How in the world do we distinguish touching and leaning on a tree branch? 2

1. The Rules, whether you consider stupid them or otherwise, and their penalties are to to be found here.  Playing the course as you find it is covered in Rule 8 It's quite a complicated one but fundamental to golf.

 

2. The difference is that if you just touch a branch it scarcely moves, if at all.  If you lean on it, it bends significantly.  I think you might be asking that because of a misunderstanding  but I'm sure someone could help you with it if you explained.  There is no rule that says you cannot touch a branch.  There is no rule that simply  says you cannot in any circumstances bend a branch.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Colin L
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, karstens_ghost said:

https://www.facebook.com/USGA/videos/rules-of-golf-explained-playing-the-course-as-you-find-it/426051442990931/
 

I just saw this video and I had no idea this was coming. Anyone know where these (stupid) rules are and their penalties?

 

How in the world do we distinguish touching and leaning on a tree branch?

Have you read Rule 8 and the Clarifications?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Newby said:

Have you read Rule 8 and the Clarifications?

No. I saw the video and it shocked me because I saw the other rules before and they all made sense. Replacing clubs, two shots for signing, adaptive in 25, all good things. All what I saw in advance.

 

I was first shown this video about tree branches and I thought it was a parody. I’m really going to have to read this thoroughly but it seems weird that if your club hits a pine needle on a backswing, it’s a penalty now?

 

They’ve been doing very well with common sense changes, but just like the “1 inch drop”, this isn’t going to be easy nor does it appear simple to apply.

 

Is a loose impediment no longer movable because it might be in line? There is some weirdness and this video makes it difficult to understand what the changes are to me, since the context isn’t included in an intro video.

 

That said I’ll be checking out the link above, and can’t wait for another batch of oddly applied rules at tournaments like 4 years ago. 

Ping-logo-283444624.jpeg 410LST 9º (TourX) RogueST 3D (ADDI 6X) [OMG what?], 425 3w 14.5º (TourX), 430 3h 19º & 4 iCross (HZRDUS Red 6.0), i230 5-U, G4 54º, GFP 59º (DART105F4). 2021 Fetch (BGT Tour Black).

"Golf is just a dance with a stick, and a ball tells you how good a dancer you are."  LCP150mm in your fairway should be a full-time rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

I was first shown this video about tree branches and I thought it was a parody. I’m really going to have to read this thoroughly but it seems weird that if your club hits a pine needle on a backswing, it’s a penalty now?

 

 

Where did you get that? Not from the video. And no, it is not a penalty unless

- you discontinue your swing and do not make a stroke, AND

- you improved your area of intended swing

 

One pine cone dropped off a tree is not a breach unless it is huge and the only one. Same goes with needles, leaves and branches. You need to have improved your area of intended swing to be in breach.

 

Edited by Mr. Bean
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

Is a loose impediment no longer movable because it might be in line? There is some weirdness and this video makes it difficult to understand what the changes are to me, since the context isn’t included in an intro video.

 

 

If you are referring to the sand brushed away, sand is not a Loose Impediment. However, it may be removed on the Putting Green but nowhere else on the course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, karstens_ghost said:

I was first shown this video about tree branches and I thought it was a parody. I’m really going to have to read this thoroughly but it seems weird that if your club hits a pine needle on a backswing, it’s a penalty now?

I didn't see anything in the video that says anything like this.  But lest you be shocked, you might want to review old Rule 13-2 here (http://ruleshistory.com/rules2016.html) and new Rule 8.1.  As has pretty much always been the case, you're not allowed to bend or break stuff that improves your area of intended swing.  The newer rules provide a little more detailed guidance about the meaning of the term "improve", and in fact the term Improve is specifically defined as providing a potential advantage for a stroke.  Knocking a few leaves off a branch is unlikely to provide an advantage, breaking that branch off probably does provide an advantage.

Don't be shocked or surprised, nothing has changed very much, and the changes actually make the rule a tiny bit more lenient. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Where did you get that? Not from the video. And no, it is not a penalty unless

- you discontinue your swing and do not make a stroke, AND

- you improved your area of intended swing

 

One pine cone dropped off a tree is not a breach unless it is huge and the only one. Same goes with needles, leaves and branches. You need to have improved your area of intended swing to be in breach.

 


I took it to mean that since you cannot touch a branch in your backswing, touching a branch at the top seems to now be a problem. The video indicates you can move a branch to achieve a stance, but if a branch is not in its natural position, or is touched in the process of swinging, that’s not incidental now.

 

regardless, I feel as if I didn’t get the memo for this in 2022. I’ll sort it out, but it seems strange to me. Many of the regulars in this sub forum will be offended for anything that doesn’t bow down immediately and that’s fine. I’m not here for that. It’s not arguing; I don’t make the rules. But the branch stuff seems silly, and didn’t need to be changed.

 

my opinion. Not sorry. 

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Ping-logo-283444624.jpeg 410LST 9º (TourX) RogueST 3D (ADDI 6X) [OMG what?], 425 3w 14.5º (TourX), 430 3h 19º & 4 iCross (HZRDUS Red 6.0), i230 5-U, G4 54º, GFP 59º (DART105F4). 2021 Fetch (BGT Tour Black).

"Golf is just a dance with a stick, and a ball tells you how good a dancer you are."  LCP150mm in your fairway should be a full-time rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

The video indicates you can move a branch to achieve a stance, but if a branch is not in its natural position, or is touched in the process of swinging, that’s not incidental now.

 

I am having trouble seeing how you got that from the video. That’s not what it is saying at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:


1) I took it to mean that since you cannot touch a branch in your backswing, touching a branch at the top seems to now be a problem. 2) The video indicates you can move a branch to achieve a stance, but if a branch is not in its natural position, or is touched in the process of swinging, that’s not incidental now.

 

 

1) As already explained, touching is not a problem, never has been.

 

2) Moving a branch to take a stance is not a self-evident thing. When taking a stance the player has to use the least intrusive way. That means that you are not allowed to move branches any way you like (the 1st video clip) but you can do that only as much as is absolutely necessary (2nd video clip). Sometimes you have to step over a branch hanging low instead of pushing it aside. There used to be an excellent Decision about taking stance fairly and most of it is still there in the Interpretations 8.1b/2 and /3. I suggest you read them very carefully.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, karstens_ghost said:

I took it to mean that since you cannot touch a branch in your backswing, touching a branch at the top seems to now be a problem. The video indicates you can move a branch to achieve a stance, but if a branch is not in its natural position, or is touched in the process of swinging, that’s not incidental now.

In the interest of helping you learn, I offer a couple of comments.  The most important thing is that you can absolutely RUIN a branch while taking your real swing.  This is in 8.1b Actions that are Allowed,

"In preparing for or making a stroke, a player may take any of these actions and there is no penalty even if doing so improves the conditions affecting the stroke:

....

(7) Make a stroke or the backswing for a stroke  that is then made."

So your backswing takes out that branch, and you continue to make the stroke, you're fine, even though your backswing has improved the CATS (Conditions Affecting the Stroke).  But if you do the same thing with a practice swing, actually giving yourself an advantage in making your real swing, you've violated the rule.

 

The important thing to remember is that these short videos aren't intended to be an exhaustive explanation of the applicable Rule, its just an introduction.  In the USGA Rules Workshop we spent a bit over an hour with Rule 8.  If you're interested in understanding it, you should read the Rule mentioned (I know you've said you plan to).  If you want to go deeper, you can do an online rules course through USGA here:  https://rules.usga.org/product/rules-101/.  The section concerning Rule 8 starts with that same video, but goes on with much more detailed explanations.  It should be free, but you'll need to make a (free) account with the USGA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, davep043 said:

If you want to go deeper, you can do an online rules course through USGA here:  https://rules.usga.org/product/rules-101/.  The section concerning Rule 8 starts with that same video, but goes on with much more detailed explanations.  It should be free, but you'll need to make a (free) account with the USGA.

Unusually for the USGA, this is available for everyone outside the USGA area also.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Newby said:

Unusually for the USGA, this is available for everyone outside the USGA area also.

? I have never seen anything restricted on their site, never been told I am not in a correct area. You may be thinking of the commercial material from US media or sites from commercial organisations (Twitter etc) but that is not a USGA issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, karstens_ghost said:


I took it to mean that since you cannot touch a branch in your backswing, touching a branch at the top seems to now be a problem. The video indicates you can move a branch to achieve a stance, but if a branch is not in its natural position, or is touched in the process of swinging, that’s not incidental now.

 

regardless, I feel as if I didn’t get the memo for this in 2022. I’ll sort it out, but it seems strange to me. Many of the regulars in this sub forum will be offended for anything that doesn’t bow down immediately and that’s fine. I’m not here for that. It’s not arguing; I don’t make the rules. But the branch stuff seems silly, and didn’t need to be changed.

 

my opinion. Not sorry. 

To be clear, nothing has changed in this rule - 2023 is the same as it was before in terms of player having tree/branch etc interference with the stroke. That video is not new.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, antip said:

To be clear, nothing has changed in this rule - 2023 is the same as it was before in terms of player having tree/branch etc interference with the stroke. That video is not new.

And as I mentioned, its not significantly different from previous versions of the Rules.  I took a quick look at the 2000 edition, and the wording is very similar.  The only real change (which occurred in 2019) is in providing a definition of "Improve".

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, davep043 said:

And as I mentioned, its not significantly different from previous versions of the Rules.  I took a quick look at the 2000 edition, and the wording is very similar.  The only real change (which occurred in 2019) is in providing a definition of "Improve".

which was further information on how to apply rather than a change per se.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/7/2023 at 11:20 AM, davep043 said:

In the interest of helping you learn, I offer a couple of comments.  The most important thing is that you can absolutely RUIN a branch while taking your real swing.  This is in 8.1b Actions that are Allowed,

"In preparing for or making a stroke, a player may take any of these actions and there is no penalty even if doing so improves the conditions affecting the stroke:

....

(7) Make a stroke or the backswing for a stroke  that is then made."

So your backswing takes out that branch, and you continue to make the stroke, you're fine, even though your backswing has improved the CATS (Conditions Affecting the Stroke).  But if you do the same thing with a practice swing, actually giving yourself an advantage in making your real swing, you've violated the rule.

 

The important thing to remember is that these short videos aren't intended to be an exhaustive explanation of the applicable Rule, its just an introduction.  In the USGA Rules Workshop we spent a bit over an hour with Rule 8.  If you're interested in understanding it, you should read the Rule mentioned (I know you've said you plan to).  If you want to go deeper, you can do an online rules course through USGA here:  https://rules.usga.org/product/rules-101/.  The section concerning Rule 8 starts with that same video, but goes on with much more detailed explanations.  It should be free, but you'll need to make a (free) account with the USGA.

 

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks again. I think I understand where I messed up. As you pointed out here, I think this is precisely what seemed wrong.

 

When this was sent to me, it seemed like it was nothing but the swing, but the video means pre-shot. I'll attach some screens for reference, but clearly I/we misinterpreted the contact with branches in a swing to be a reference to the swing, not the pre-shot routine. In addition, the later shot with the player "in the branches" looks like leaning to me - or at least it would be a question.

 

And for @Purple Toupee, whatever, mate.

 

 

Screenshot 2023-01-09 at 15.11.51.png

Screenshot 2023-01-09 at 15.18.27.png

Screenshot 2023-01-09 at 15.44.48.png

Screenshot 2023-01-09 at 15.15.18.png

  • Like 1

Ping-logo-283444624.jpeg 410LST 9º (TourX) RogueST 3D (ADDI 6X) [OMG what?], 425 3w 14.5º (TourX), 430 3h 19º & 4 iCross (HZRDUS Red 6.0), i230 5-U, G4 54º, GFP 59º (DART105F4). 2021 Fetch (BGT Tour Black).

"Golf is just a dance with a stick, and a ball tells you how good a dancer you are."  LCP150mm in your fairway should be a full-time rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, karstens_ghost said:

 

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks again. I think I understand where I messed up. As you pointed out here, I think this is precisely what seemed wrong.

 

When this was sent to me, it seemed like it was nothing but the swing, but the video means pre-shot. I'll attach some screens for reference, but clearly I/we misinterpreted the contact with branches in a swing to be a reference to the swing, not the pre-shot routine. In addition, the later shot with the player "in the branches" looks like leaning to me - or at least it would be a question.

 

And for @Purple Toupee, whatever, mate.

 

 

Karsten, what you have got wrong is to take a single video clip/picture to cover an entire Rule with it's concepts. The positive thing is that you shared your misconception with us and now you now the correct ruling. Merry golf rounds!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The danger of a 1-minute clip on about new years day of a rule change year, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ All good.

Ping-logo-283444624.jpeg 410LST 9º (TourX) RogueST 3D (ADDI 6X) [OMG what?], 425 3w 14.5º (TourX), 430 3h 19º & 4 iCross (HZRDUS Red 6.0), i230 5-U, G4 54º, GFP 59º (DART105F4). 2021 Fetch (BGT Tour Black).

"Golf is just a dance with a stick, and a ball tells you how good a dancer you are."  LCP150mm in your fairway should be a full-time rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies

×
×
  • Create New...