41 degree pitching wedge.. "Longest irons ever". Grandma just smoked a 9 iron 200 yards. (***MERGED***)

[DaveGoodrich]

14 hours ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

I can't figure out why this bothers people? 

 

Because having a "pitching" wedge that is useless for pitching is stupid. Unnecessarily creating a gap that you have to fill with 2 or 3 "wedges" is even stupider.   

 

Sure "loft is loft," but IMO, wedges should be named for their intended purpose (pitching, sand, lob).  Why should I have to remember that I don't really pitch with my pitching wedge, I pitch with my W3?  Why invent new names for clubs that already have names that mean something? 

 

Because it increases sales by deceiving their customers, that's why.  This is why loft jacking bothers me. 

 

 

[iknowbagu]

15 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

 

Titleist has had a number of sets the last number of years with multiple gap wedges. I always find it hilarious as they are the " serious clubs for serious players" company.

 

They were losing that market share so they put something out for them. Just because they throw some token SGI out there doesn't mean their mantra becomes untrue. Nothing to support this, but I'd guess 80%+ of their iron sales are still T100/T100S/CB/MB.

[Chunkitgood]

Delofting is a part of a cluster of things (large gaps in short irons, lower COG’s) done to accommodate bad swings (generally described “turf/ball”).

 

To the extent they work, they are pernicious in that they “help” people to never learn to play golf properly.  To the extent they don’t, they are close to fraudulent.

 

I personably played for many years with a consistent turf/ball swing.  There’s nothing wrong with people never wanting to go past it.  What is wrong in my mind is convincing people there is no need (or at least value) in going past it.

 

Playing ball/turf is a completely different animal than turf/ball, and paradoxically easy, long, and consistent.

 

And it is best played with 4 degree gaps with a pitching wedge somewhere in the 50 degree area, so you can actually pitch with it.

[Pepperturbo]

I don't pay any attention to advertising, regardless of the OEM.  Distance has never been a factor for me using more traditional spec 620 MBs.  Unfortunately, for some of us, the aging process is wreaking havoc with our games.  In my case, it's cost me 10-12yds per club…yuck.  Sure, instead of 9i, which was my 128/130 carry club, I could grab 8i or 7i, but that doesn't sit right; now I use PW or W, smile and watch the face of my playing partners. LOL 

 

Don't know about anyone else, but I am not ready to sit back and wallow in loss of yardage punishment, and I am NOT ready to play the ole man tees.  As a result, I bought a set of strong lofted Titleist irons; T200 2i & 4i, and T100s 5i-W, glad I did. 

 

The club with PW on the sole is 44' and with W on the sole is 48', and so far, NO gapping issues.  The only issue that comes up is when I instinctively reach for a club that is suddenly too much, thus grab a lessor club.  Based on last weekend's play, strong lofts and lighter composite shafts are getting me back in the game, combined with TSR3 10' and Ventus Blue TR6 S, this 70+ ole man is still finding a game.

 

This coming weekend, if not raining, I have a $$$ game on a course that has plenty of holes requiring carry off the tee and hazards to cover, near greens.  If I can't cover the demand, I am either in a drink or a deep hazard, either way, stacking up bogies and seeing $$$ float out of my pocket to a youngster that thinks I am an easy mark... can't have that.  😛

 

Rain - yuck

Edited January 14, 2023 by Pepperturbo
Weather grr

[goudok]

I used to be completely against this, but i have grown to a) not care and b) actually somewhat benefit from.

I for example will never change my 54 degree wedge.  I chip, hit bunker shots, hit anywhere from 80-115 with it.  I know exactly what it will do.  Now, I used to play 46 50 54 58 setup and always found it to be kind of squished everything overlapped.  Fast forward to T100s with a 44 degree pw.  My next club is 49 degree then 54 and then 59.  This way I have perfect gap on full swings but yet still have a ton of play with partial shots.  I dont feel like I overlap anymore and now my full pw flies 142 instead of 136 so feels like it is easier to hit a shot from 140.

[puresurfr]

16 hours ago, Swingingk said:

That's a 7-iron in my world.  Guess I'm officially a relic...

 38* that's my LD driver, makes me old

[Feelingofgreatness]

3 hours ago, DaveGoodrich said:

 

Because having a "pitching" wedge that is useless for pitching is stupid. Unnecessarily creating a gap that you have to fill with 2 or 3 "wedges" is even stupider.   

 

Sure "loft is loft," but IMO, wedges should be named for their intended purpose (pitching, sand, lob).  Why should I have to remember that I don't really pitch with my pitching wedge, I pitch with my W3?  Why invent new names for clubs that already have names that mean something? 

 

Because it increases sales by deceiving their customers, that's why.  This is why loft jacking bothers me. 

 

 

So call it a 10 iron like honma. 

I pitch with my 52* wedge anyway. 

The pitching wedge hasn't been a true pw since they were 49 to 51* of loft. 

People get all bent out if shape about the name and number. All that matters is how consistently you hit it. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Feelingofgreatness

[Palmydrain]

Just quit putting numbers on the clubs and put the degree of loft... 

[Radeon962]

I don’t care anymore.  
 

I used to play 5-PW plus 50 or 52, 54 or 56

and 58 or 60 depending on the PW loft in the set.

Now I play PXG Gen5 0311XP 6-GW and they are one club stronger in loft and 1/2” longer than my previous set so I can cover my gaps just fine by using a 52* and 58* wedge on the short end of the bag. 

Dropped the 5 iron and added a Callaway Apex UW 21* at 1/2” short from standard as my 200 yard club and I have a set from 200 down to about 80 yards with about 15 yard gaps between.  

Add driver, 3w and another UW at 17* along with a putter and my set is now 13 clubs.  Worked well last season and my just get a Callaway Paradym 5w and drop the 3w and 17* UW and play 12 clubs.

 

If I compare the 0311XP way back to my old Titleist DCI 962’s they are probably 2 clubs stronger compared to them and at least 1/2” longer.

 

The lofts are stronger lofted but with the way the heads are built to get the ball up easier and straighter, I would imagine you would hit the ball way too high with too much spin with old school lofts on the newer heads.
 

Not talking blades or MB’s as I stopped playing them 20+ years ago when I realized a set of Ping G25’s got me around the course much easier and my score was a lot better than using something just to impress my friends.

 

Play what you like and have fun.

[joostin]

Might be time for OEMs to just give us a blank spot to stamp, Sharpie, or engrave whatever you want 😈 Done!

[Shilgy]

6 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

I wonder why drivers, woods, hybrids, and wedges all have loft stamped on them?  If it's not important with irons why is it important in other clubs?

I did not say loft is not important….was that directed at my post?  I said that it does not matter really to me if you call, for instance,  a 32* club a 7 iron or a 6 iron or an 8 iron.  And being concerned about what number a playing partners club was is foolish as well and means nothing.

 

Maybe all these big discrepancies in specs is a good thing.  The old idea of looking in another players bag to see what club he hit is now useless.

[bekgolf]

8 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I did not say loft is not important….was that directed at my post?  I said that it does not matter really to me if you call, for instance,  a 32* club a 7 iron or a 6 iron or an 8 iron.  And being concerned about what number a playing partners club was is foolish as well and means nothing.

 

Maybe all these big discrepancies in specs is a good thing.  The old idea of looking in another players bag to see what club he hit is now useless.

 

What someone else is hitting doesn't matter and never will.  I'm wondering how you get the idea that it matters to anyone?

 

My gripe is with club manufacturers stamping a 9 on an 8 and marketing it as longer than the last model.  It just seems sketchy and misleading but it is reality.

 

 

[Shilgy]

1 minute ago, bekgolf said:

 

What someone else is hitting doesn't matter and never will.  I'm wondering how you get the idea that it matters to anyone?

 

My gripe is with club manufacturers stamping a 9 on an 8 and marketing it as longer than the last model.  It just seems sketchy and misleading but it is reality.

 

 

How I got the idea is numerous posts….in this thread and others….where posters say they don’t like being told their playing partner hits it further than them but club loft is blamed.

 

And yes, I agree with you on the club manufacturer's dubious marketing.

[dmeeksDC]

9 hours ago, Binson said:

There's a video on the Cool Clubs channel with Marty Jertson where he says the technology in these irons actually result in a loft increase of 2 degrees upon impact to increase launch.

 

It's almost as if static loft is just one variable in the equation and comparison across sets simply using one variable is an outdated premise...

Have not hit them yet but I think there is something to that. Ping says a vast amount of arccos data was factored into the design of the g430 irons and that the launch and gapping will be correct for those who fit these irons. There are interesting articles out there on the design and how moving the CG lower also reduces MOI, so Ping engineers usually keep their CG a little higher than others.
 

Here is an excerpt:

 

“Additionally, PING continues to lower the CG which, along with stronger lofts, is the biggest factor in gaining ball speed and distance. But there is a balancing act between CG and MOI.

 

‘For every 50/1000^th of an inch we move CG down, it’s roughly 0.6-mph ball speed improvement,’ says Stokke. ‘And as we move 50/1000^th of an inch, we see a four- to five-percent decrease in MOI.’

 

Stokke says PING’s research shows that 75 percent of iron shots occur in the center or lower portion of the face, so the CG-MOI tradeoff is worth it. For the record, PING achieved a lower CG by shortening the hosel. The G430’s MOI is actually lower than that of both the G425 and G410 but is higher than the G400.”

[glm]

10 hours ago, iknowbagu said:

 

Nearing? We passed that a long time ago. There are hybrids over $250 and fairways over $300. Wedges will be $200 by next cycle. 

 

Don't forget

MADE IN CHINA😜

[TheOverratedPhotog]

First off, I think a lot of people are assuming the people buying these would also be longer hitters, which is where it leaves them the gaps on the lower end. I would say this is incorrect. Anyone who is a longer hitter isn’t going to be in the market for delofted clubs. 90% of the buyers for these would be hitting their 7 irons 150 yards or less. That would be two groups: People who are over 50 years old or beginners. If I am 65 and hitting my 7 iron 100m, do you really think a gap on the low end is a problem? The gap issue on the low end becomes a non-issue because the kinds of people buying these clubs are more likely to have a problem on the long end, not the short end. The second consideration is that event if you are a longer hitter, gaps on the low end can still be managed, but gaps on the long end are harder to manage.

 

I’m a reasonable hitter and I hit my LW 100 yards, so I can still play an iron off the tee to ensure I have that as a minimum distance to the green. If I play a 320 yard hole and I’m driving 280, I can take my 3H off the tee, hit 220 and have 100 into the green. Low end gaps can be managed, even if you’re a longer hitter. I wouldn't buy something like a T400, but I did buy the T300.

[14max]

Tommy Armour had it right when they put the lofts on the head.  It'd be a lot easier and not all that confusing to the average consumer.

[Bad9]

1 hour ago, dmeeksDC said:

Have not hit them yet but I think there is something to that. Ping says a vast amount of arccos data was factored into the design of the g430 irons and that the launch and gapping will be correct for those who fit these irons. There are interesting articles out there on the design and how moving the CG lower also reduces MOI, so Ping engineers usually keep their CG a little higher than others.
 

Here is an excerpt:

 

“Additionally, PING continues to lower the CG which, along with stronger lofts, is the biggest factor in gaining ball speed and distance. But there is a balancing act between CG and MOI.

 

‘For every 50/1000^th of an inch we move CG down, it’s roughly 0.6-mph ball speed improvement,’ says Stokke. ‘And as we move 50/1000^th of an inch, we see a four- to five-percent decrease in MOI.’

 

Stokke says PING’s research shows that 75 percent of iron shots occur in the center or lower portion of the face, so the CG-MOI tradeoff is worth it. For the record, PING achieved a lower CG by shortening the hosel. The G430’s MOI is actually lower than that of both the G425 and G410 but is higher than the G400.”

Except Ping is not lowering the cog. Actual measurements show they have higher cogs than most.

[black bnr32]

12 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

Except Ping is not lowering the cog. Actual measurements show they have higher cogs than most.

Yeah and their MOIs are way higher than others.  Would be nice if they brought COG down even further, even at the expense of MOI.

[Feelingofgreatness]

2 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

What someone else is hitting doesn't matter and never will.  I'm wondering how you get the idea that it matters to anyone?

 

My gripe is with club manufacturers stamping a 9 on an 8 and marketing it as longer than the last model.  It just seems sketchy and misleading but it is reality.

 

 

Unless you are playing a 44* 8i, you are playing a jacked loft 😁

[dmeeksDC]

48 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

Except Ping is not lowering the cog. Actual measurements show they have higher cogs than most.

Correct. I didn’t say it was lower than most. It is a Ping vs Ping comparison. The excerpt quotes a Ping designer saying they have lowered the CG on the g430 irons compared to past Ping models. And he is explaining why Ping generally keeps its CG higher than competitors — they value high MOI more than low CG. I didn’t know lowering the CG also affects MOI negatively. I thought it was interesting that he explained their design philosophy. 

[mosesgolf]

Automatically off my list

[philly2kuk]

6 hours ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

So call it a 10 iron like honma. 

I pitch with my 52* wedge anyway. 

The pitching wedge hasn't been a true pw since they were 49 to 51* of loft. 

People get all bent out if shape about the name and number. All that matters is how consistently you hit it. 

Whilst I agree with you, the new g430 irons are stupid. Pw is 41 degrees, gap wedge is 45.5, so you need a gap gap wedge at 50 now as well. I’m a ping fan and my g410 irons have a 45 pw, but 41 is getting silly - no way that spins enough to be used as a pitching wedge.
 

 

If like me you carry (and use) a 4 iron and a lob wedge, you’ve not enough room in the bag to have that gap gap wedge, so somewhere you’ve got a big gap in loft and therefore distance. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by philly2kuk

[mkidding]

On 1/10/2023 at 5:28 PM, markymark_Rx said:

So.. anybody else tired of these distance marketing campaigns? New ping irons are 'longest' ever because the pitching wedge is actually an 8 iron with a P on the bottom... Then what.. you get to carry 3 gap wedges and a sand wedge?? I am all for new equipment and I love new gear, but this is too much.. 

Do you agree or disagree?

 

Check this out 🙂

 

 

 

[wedgegame]

Since I've tweaked the lofts of the last two sets of irons I've owned, I would would be more bothered that stamped loft didn't match the actual loft than I would be by Timmy's 32 degree cannonwedge.

 

With fitting and customization becoming more commonplace, stamping lofts on clubs seems kinda dumb IMO. Maybe that's just my OCD talking, but I stand by it.

[karstens_ghost]

You can tell by the fact they loft-label the 45º club that they're stuck, too. I bet the marketing team hemmed and hawwed over this for a very long time. I actually think they're numbering the four lofts at 45/50/54/58 is surrendering to this fight. Ping has long been on the conservative side of lofts, but this appears to simply accept that they felt they have a reputation for short irons.

 

They must have had marketing research to say that this mattered.

[FiveByEagle]

On 1/10/2023 at 9:54 PM, puresurfr said:

Didnt Miura release a set of blades and there were no numbers or lofts only dot colors to distinguish clubs......that helps eliminate issues, im going a soft red or a hard blue.   Cant get over that tree with orange dot, I need green dot with face open.

I love this so much.

 

 

[DevilDog]

OEMs know promise of distance sells. Even if lofts are jacked, no one says “my PW is strong lofted”. They instead will say “I hit my PW that far!”.  OEMs also know this does create gaps on the wedge end so now they can sell 1-3 more clubs to fill the gap. Now you buy a traditional 8 iron set still or maybe 9 or 10 irons. Means more money made in both cases. Sell them for vanity and sell more clubs for technicality reasons. 

 

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

OEMs know promise of distance sells. Even if lofts are jacked, no one says “my PW is strong lofted”. They instead will say “I hit my PW that far!”.  OEMs also know this does create gaps on the wedge end so now they can sell 1-3 more clubs to fill the gap. Now you buy a traditional 8 iron set still or maybe 9 or 10 irons. Means more money made in both cases. Sell them for vanity and sell more clubs for technicality reasons. 

 

The players the extremely strong lofted irons are targeted for are not buying 8 iron sets….or certainly should not be.  4-gw maybe….5-gw2 should be the set if 8 clubs comprise the set. 

[DevilDog]

23 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

The players the extremely strong lofted irons are targeted for are not buying 8 iron sets….or certainly should not be.  4-gw maybe….5-gw2 should be the set if 8 clubs comprise the set. 

That is what I was saying. Takes 8 irons to fill gaps at wedge end not the front end. Traditional 8 iron sets are 3-PW. New ones are 5-PW, GW1, GW2. Sometimes takes a third one.