41 degree pitching wedge.. "Longest irons ever". Grandma just smoked a 9 iron 200 yards. (***MERGED***)

[Shilgy]

33 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

That is what I was saying. Takes 8 irons to fill gaps at wedge end not the front end. Traditional 8 iron sets are 3-PW. New ones are 5-PW, GW1, GW2. Sometimes takes a third one. 

Same same imo.  So they’ve changed what the clubs are named.  Maybe makes some players feel stronger and longer.  Buddy I play a lot with is a former college d1 player and now uses PXG 0211.  He knows his 8 iron is the same exact length and loft as my ZX7 7 iron.  Just says he feels more confident hitting an 8 than a 7 for instance. 
 

so there’s that.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Shilgy

[tomc262]

On 1/10/2023 at 7:28 PM, markymark_Rx said:

So.. anybody else tired of these distance marketing campaigns? New ping irons are 'longest' ever because the pitching wedge is actually an 8 iron with a P on the bottom... Then what.. you get to carry 3 gap wedges and a sand wedge?? I am all for new equipment and I love new gear, but this is too much.. 

Do you agree or disagree?

Yeah...my CB92 8i is 41* 🙂 🙂 

[gdb99]

23 hours ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

This is categorically false. 

I have a few sets. One set has a 27* 5i and another has a 27* 7i. Both clubs travel 175 yards with around 5000 spin. The 7i is actually easier to hit because it's 37" versus the 5i that's 38". The peak height is greater in the 7i because of the lower CG and the land angle is also steeper on the 7i.

The bottom-line is, for me, the 7i is much easier to hit and stop near the pin than the old 5i is. How can you not love that?

 

What's the difference in the bottom end of my bag if I have 41* pw, 46* gw, 50* w, 54* sw and 58* LW? 

 

It's totally illogical thinking, I still have 14 clubs that cover my gaps from 275 yards all the was down to 80 yards on a full swing. 

If they go the same distance, then why did they change the number on the bottom?

[Feelingofgreatness]

11 hours ago, philly2kuk said:

Whilst I agree with you, the new g430 irons are stupid. Pw is 41 degrees, gap wedge is 45.5, so you need a gap gap wedge at 50 now as well. I’m a ping fan and my g410 irons have a 45 pw, but 41 is getting silly - no way that spins enough to be used as a pitching wedge.
 

 

If like me you carry (and use) a 4 iron and a lob wedge, you’ve not enough room in the bag to have that gap gap wedge, so somewhere you’ve got a big gap in loft and therefore distance. 

I think you fail to understand the concept. 

Your 4i would simply be the 5i in the g430, you still have the same amount of clubs and the same gaps, the club names are just different. 

A 45* pw isn't a pw. A pitching club is 50 to 52* therefore your 45* is still just a short iron labeled as PW. 

 

You can have a set where the PW is 30* and 9i is 27* and 8i is 24*. Above PW you label the irons with lofts instead club numbers... It's just a labelling game! Lol

Edited January 12, 2023 by Feelingofgreatness

[Feelingofgreatness]

1 minute ago, gdb99 said:

If they go the same distance, then why did they change the number on the bottom?

This isn't rocket science! Lol

They change the number so they can market that the irons go further. 

If you go from 45* to 41* PW, at 100mph driver speed you'll hit the new PW ten yards further. It's a labeling and marketing game but doesn't affect playability, just strengthens your ego. 

 

If you have an iron set from 23* up to 51* with 4* loft gaps, does it matter how you label them?? 

[gdb99]

Since they strengthened all these lofts, and it’s easier to hit these lower lofted clubs because the iron plays shorter, then I guess club fitters did a really bad job of iron fitting back in the day? We all played irons that didn’t fit well? 
 

Why  don’t they just keep the iron number that matches the loft the same? 
 

So my new 6 iron is still a 6 iron, goes the same distance, it’s just 1/2” shorter. 
 

[karstens_ghost]

It's funny being told that "traditional" iron sets are 3-P. No, traditional iron sets are 1-9, with a wedge.

 

So when you hear about people saying back in the day they chipped with a 9-iron, that's a gap today. That's the damage in it. It's not what you get used to; it's that references are wrong even 5 years ago. Hell, just look at Tiger's new-traditional lofts…

 

Also, lest this turn into a bash, take a peek at how conservative the new 230 lofts are… 

[Feelingofgreatness]

5 minutes ago, gdb99 said:

Since they strengthened all these lofts, and it’s easier to hit these lower lofted clubs because the iron plays shorter, then I guess club fitters did a really bad job of iron fitting back in the day? We all played irons that didn’t fit well? 
 

Why  don’t they just keep the iron number that matches the loft the same? 
 

So my new 6 iron is still a 6 iron, goes the same distance, it’s just 1/2” shorter. 
 

It doesn't have to be shorter. 

PXG xp 7i is 37.50"

 

It you make cg lower, you can get by with shorter length because of launch characteristics. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Feelingofgreatness

[gdb99]

2 minutes ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

This isn't rocket science! Lol

They change the number so they can market that the irons go further. 

If you go from 45* to 41* PW, at 100mph driver speed you'll hit the new PW ten yards further. It's a labeling and marketing game but doesn't affect playability, just strengthens your ego. 

 

If you have an iron set from 23* up to 51* with 4* loft gaps, does it matter how you label them?? 

It was a rhetorical question. 
 

I played a set of T300 irons last year for a bit. 
 

I’m not sure if it was club design or the graphite shaft that was in them, but it was fun being able to hit a towering 8 iron uphill over a tree on our 9th hole from 160. That’s usually a 5 or 6 iron for me, and it would have crashed midway up this tree. 

[Feelingofgreatness]

1 minute ago, gdb99 said:

It was a rhetorical question. 
 

I played a set of T300 irons last year for a bit. 
 

I’m not sure if it was club design or the graphite shaft that was in them, but it was fun being able to hit a towering 8 iron uphill over a tree on our 9th hole from 160. That’s usually a 5 or 6 iron for me, and it would have crashed midway up this tree. 

That's the benefit of wider sole and lower cg... 

But the trade off is spin and moi. 

[iknowbagu]

The OEMs view threads like these and the people posting in them as old men screaming at clouds. They DO NOT CARE what we think. We are the extreme minority that notices and/or cares about these things. Contrary to what you might think by being here too much, most people don't go through clubs like underwear. And even some (most) of the serial hos here buy used anyway. So why would the OEMs try and cater to such a small percentage of the market? Answer ... they wouldn't. They're pushing clubs out to the masses, not us. Adapt or die, people. 

[Garlando]

I remember when I got fitted for PXG irons…I started off by hitting my old Mizuno MP-67 7-iron (36 degree loft) which I hit around 150 yards. I then got asked to hit the PXG 0211 Xcor2 7-iron (28 degree loft) which I of course hit longer. The fitter chimed in right away when I hit the PXG and said “wow, look at the distance gain!” I told him I wasn’t surprised… the loft is 8 degrees stronger haha.

 

Ultimately I don’t have a problem with loft jacking, I see it as a combo of improved club design and improved CG placement that makes it easier to launch irons that also couples as a marketing tool. As long as you know what you are looking at when comparing irons and can appropriately gap your clubs, its all gravy.

[ChipNRun]

On 1/11/2023 at 7:34 AM, WristySwing said:

Well the bad thing about it is the big loft gaps in the bottom end of the bag. It’s snake oil for folks that aren’t good at golf or are short. 5-6 degree gapping in the bottom and the normal 3 in the long. Not to mention despite all the help I don’t know how functional the 20 degree 5 iron would play for most.

 

On 1/11/2023 at 7:34 AM, WristySwing said:

If a person came into my shop and had a 50ft apex with a 35* descent angle on a 27* golf club, guess what, they are getting some toasters on a stick.  That's either full hybrid, a high lofted fairway, or the fattest iron known to man.  There's just no other way around it.  Sure, your average joe who walks into PGASS on a Thursday night at 8:30pm looking for a set of sticks on clearance doesn't give two flips about this --- they are going to shoot 95+ with 38 putts no matter what clubs they play.  They aren't the target market for a fitting because they will balk at the cost.

 

Ah, the 20* 5i.  Reminds me of Tom Wishon's 24/38 Rule: The average golfer cannot reliably hit an iron with less than 24* loft, or a shaft length greater than 38 inches.

 

My Mavrik MAX irons have a 23.5* 5i, but I can hit it OK because I went to lighter graphite shafts, increasing my clubhead speed. And because the MAXs have greater loft to get me airborne, I hit MAX irons a full club longer than the lower-lofted standard Marviks.

[MountainKing]

I never really looked at them, or really any set that has a PW stronger than 46, but how do you stack your bag with a 38* wedge?  Just skip over everything between 40 and 50?  

[ChipNRun]

1 minute ago, MountainKing said:

but how do you stack your bag with a 38* wedge?

 

MK, you and I won't do this. We'll find iron sets based off a 45* (or higher) PW.

 

Side note: Direct-to-customer companies (Sub 70, Haywood) are offering quite a few iron sets with 45*-46* PW.

[MountainKing]

18 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

 

MK, you and I won't do this. We'll find iron sets based off a 45* (or higher) PW.

 

Side note: Direct-to-customer companies (Sub 70, Haywood) are offering quite a few iron sets with 45*-46* PW.

 

Yeah there's no way I would ever consider that, just more curious how you stack it.  I went and took a look and it looks like they sell wedge's to cover the gap, so yeah basically carrying 6 wedges to fill things out.  You're right in that these sets aren't for us, even the 770's I'm currently in I had to tweak the lofts up on them, they were a tad strong for me and not spinning enough. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by MountainKing

[black bnr32]

I just don’t like how standard sets are still mostly 4-PW.  Gotta make the gap standard IMO.

[ChipNRun]

1 hour ago, black bnr32 said:

I just don’t like how standard sets are still mostly 4-PW.  Gotta make the gap standard IMO.

 

Most iron sets these days have a GW designed as part of the set. But, to keep to a seven-club mix, many are offered as a 4-PW or a 5-GW.

 

For smaller on-course and even country-club golf shops, the GWs are problematic. So many iron sets come now with a GW, they are leery of stocking too many specialty GWs. I heard about this at the local PGA Thanksgiving clearance sale (pre-COVID). One shop was selling off a new brand-name GW for $70. He said they ordered two in the spring, but still had one left after Labor Day and were unloading it. Shop rep said no one at club would buy a specialty GW, since they came in iron sets.

[black bnr32]

My experience is the opposite.  The local store sets only go up to PW.  

[Feelingofgreatness]

3 hours ago, MountainKing said:

 

Yeah there's no way I would ever consider that, just more curious how you stack it.  I went and took a look and it looks like they sell wedge's to cover the gap, so yeah basically carrying 6 wedges to fill things out.  You're right in that these sets aren't for us, even the 770's I'm currently in I had to tweak the lofts up on them, they were a tad strong for me and not spinning enough. 

They aren't wedges, they are just short irons with loft labels. They have full soles, nothing specialty about them. 

To me, a wedge is a high lofted club, 52* to 64* with a special grind and increased head weight. 

 

If my pw is 41* and yours is 45*, neither one is a pitching wedge. If I hit my 45* wedge 125y and you hit your 45* pw 125y, we effectively hit the same club with a different label, I don't get what people are confused about, there is no difference. 

[Barfolomew]

Will manufacturers forever be chasing more iron distance or is there a max usable iron distance? 

 

You could see very weak players always wanting more distance vs very good players thinking gaps..... or is that not true 🐔

 

In 2050 they still gonna be saying these are the longest irons on the market, way further then the 2049s or will it max out

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Barfolomew

[cheeser]

There's plenty of options in the market that are not true distance irons.  You could also just buy them weaker or pay to have them adjusted to your liking.

[DaveGoodrich]

On 1/11/2023 at 3:27 AM, 5nowflake said:

I reckon that an average player would be best served with a three or four club “iron set” covering about 30-45 degrees, hybrids in the 20s, wedges in the 50s. 

 

Nailed it!  (works for me anyway, who is probably roughly average "recreational male golfer" speed - low 90's driver):

 

20, 23, 26 hybrids

28, 33, 38, 43 irons (6-9)

48, 53, 58 wedges (set PW, then Vokeys)

[golfinbrad]

I think companies have done a pretty good job making irons for all types of players.  Might be more options now than ever or at least in a long time.  I will say companies market distance most, because it sells.  Maybe not for your better players or at least more knowledgeable players, but it does work.  Every spring there are those guys who show up at the range with the latest and greatest, thinking this club will take their game to the next level.

[Ger21]

44 minutes ago, Barfolomew said:

Will manufacturers forever be chasing more iron distance or is there a max usable iron distance? 

 

Both.

Distance sells, and very large percentage of golfers is always looking for more distance.

But on the other hand, there's only so much distance you can get out of a given clubhead speed.

[iknowbagu]

2 minutes ago, golfinbrad said:

I think companies have done a pretty good job making irons for all types of players.  Might be more options now than ever or at least in a long time.  I will say companies market distance most, because it sells.  Maybe not for your better players or at least more knowledgeable players, but it does work.  Every spring there are those guys who show up at the range with the latest and greatest, thinking this club will take their game to the next level.

 

A truly remarkable job having something for everyone. Back in the day most manufacturers had 2 models each ... maybe. Now almost everyone has 4 or more. 

[golfinbrad]

1 minute ago, iknowbagu said:

 

A truly remarkable job having something for everyone. Back in the day most manufacturers had 2 models each ... maybe. Now almost everyone has 4 or more. 

Hahaha.  I remember learning with Wilson blades in the mid 80s.  All your clubs in one.  Want distance - swing faster.  More forgiveness - hit the sweet spot.  

[Grouchykona]

I feel clickbaited . .  was expecting to see a video of a yoked out grandma crushing 9 irons

[DaveGoodrich]

34 minutes ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

They aren't wedges, they are just short irons with loft labels. They have full soles, nothing specialty about them. 

To me, a wedge is a high lofted club, 52* to 64* with a special grind and increased head weight. 

 

If my pw is 41* and yours is 45*, neither one is a pitching wedge. If I hit my 45* wedge 125y and you hit your 45* pw 125y, we effectively hit the same club with a different label, I don't get what people are confused about, there is no difference. 

 

This very post illustrates exactly why they are confused.  Calling clubs that aren't wedges "wedges" is inherently confusing.  Loft jacking has resulted in non-sensical naming conventions for clubs that nobody used to need an explanation to understand.  

 

And frankly, the fact that these sets aren't for "us," pretty much guarantees that their intended customers will be among those that are confused, which is as intended, IMO.    

 

When the "need" for a gap wedge became a thing, they should have put that wedge between the 9 and the PW, and called it a Fairway Wedge.  Then the pitching wedge would still be useful for pitching, and they would have filled the gap they created with an appropriately named longer "wedge."  After all, fairway approaches are typically understood to be longer than pitches, right?  It would have been a new name for an old club, but at least it would almost make sense semantically.   

 

[rd1959]

18 minutes ago, golfinbrad said:

Hahaha.  I remember learning with Wilson blades in the mid 80s.  All your clubs in one.  Want distance - swing faster.  More forgiveness - hit the sweet spot.  

I learned with W/S blades in the early 70s. Back then a golfer could not blame the clubs for a lack of distance or forgiveness. You had to put the blame, rightly where it belongs, squarely on yourself for a bad shot.