New AMG Shallowing Video - Wow...

[Z1ggy16]

51 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Too much left elbow bend 

What faults is it causing? Assume I get it closer to 90... Will it lower the lead arm? 

 

I need an eval but I feel like it does it because I'm not able to get the lead arm further across my chest, so the rear arm has to bend. I can test this... I have a training tool that's a wedge you put in the back arm, forces 90*. 

[Z1ggy16]

49 minutes ago, glk said:

in addition to over bending the trail arm not a good idea to put something that large under your arms pit - restricts motion - do this instead can even hit little shots with it.  if you have to put something under the armpit - do a golf glove and have it fall out at the top, or even a golf tee.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CejEJObLyoC/?hl=en

Yeah I've seen this before.. I'll give it a go tonight. Thx

[johnrobison]

3 hours ago, Kuuuch said:

So with the AMG info, does this change anything mentioned here with Tyler Coonts? This is his analysis of exactly what causes shallowing. 

 

Seems to me the left side down and around would not be a main driver of shallowing no?

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiNafregleA/?igshid=YWJhMjlhZTc=

 

It's an essential component but if a guy is, say, pulling the handle, all the left side in the world won't create a shallow angle. He even says in the text "and the overall width of the arm and wrist structure" which, for me anyway, is the critical component and exactly what I feel for my trail arm to move the way AMG, and Shauheen, and Monte say and show. It's the feel you would have if you stretched a large workout rubber band across your back and stretched it further as you swing. For me, it's that width that puts everything in the right position, but it has to be synced up with the pivot, which is exactly what Tyler is doing there. So perhaps for him it's the feel of the pivot and left side down and around that creates the shallowing but he's probably already trained his arms very well to create the width, which is really what's getting the arms/hands/club where they need to be.

[bladehunter]

So this is the same as my feel for gaining width ?  
 

I do a drill where I place a tee on the ground roughly on the clubs path behind my right foot.  Then try to visualize hitting it in the way back and then down.  You can’t reach it. But it makes for a wide arc.  And absolutely wakes a driver swing up.  Keeps me from pulling down.  

Edited January 16, 2023 by bladehunter

[PracticeSwinger]

1 hour ago, fore_life said:

10k and you can come live in my house and we’ll do daily lessons for a month lol

Wouldn't that be on Star Island in Miami?... asking for a friend

[RichieHunt]

21 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Also something I’ve learned the last few years that allowing the elbow to straighten, which I have always taught, is more responsible for the hands lowering than I had initially thought.

 

This is something that Mac has taught for decades as well, just confirming he was correct all along.  

The bigger thing that I derived from it was the internal shoulder rotation in the downswing.  I always thought differently, although when I started working with HackMotion and getting the shaft to 'shallow' I started to notice this movement better.  I also like the gem of the shaft is at its shallowed at the top of the swing, so you don't need to try and shallow it even more.

 

Hopefully this video gets more attention as it would be a benefit to golf instruction and the game in general.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[Hilts1969]

5 hours ago, Kuuuch said:

So with the AMG info, does this change anything mentioned here with Tyler Coonts? This is his analysis of exactly what causes shallowing. 

 

Seems to me the left side down and around would not be a main driver of shallowing no?

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiNafregleA/?igshid=YWJhMjlhZTc=

 

 

Things like this drive me mad. The amount of people who claim their pivot shallows the club and their arms and hands are passive is never ending. 

 

If you look at his head or his shoulders or his knees and measure the drop then measure how far the hands have dropped there is a big difference between the two.

 

I believe some people believe they aren't lowering the arms and they are lucky they don't need to think about it. 

 

If you put your hands well above your head for example and bend the knees the hands drop in space but they are still above your head.

 

You can even see that his right hand is almost level with his elbow. The only way you can do this without straightening the arm is to right tilt about 12 inches which is a back breaking, weight on the right foot move of horror. 

 

His right shoulder tilts a tad but the forearm drops probably about 2 or 3 times as much(can't be bothered measuring)

Edited January 16, 2023 by Hilts1969

[Cwing]

Great thread. Thank you OP for posting.

[lookylookitzadam]

For anyone looking for the "Blender" Drill that Mike mentions in video.  It is here: 

 

Should start at the correct time, but if not and you want to skip to the part, its about 5:15 or so into the video.

[baudi]

So first 'the industry' creates the Phantom of Shallows and seduces a newly born crowd of believers.

Then years after the lost and beguiled souls can only be freed by modern wizardry at $10.000 a day.

 

 "I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean, bad?" -- Dr. Peter Venkman     

[Duffer Mark]

I have been trying to add shallowing to my swing and have been unsuccessful at doing it consistently. That is, I haven't actually added it to my swing. LOL I just hit some balls with my neighbor and was able to shallow off and on. Slowing my tempo down helped me shallow and hit the ball well - but I still had some misses. (Of course, it's golf!)

 

So my big question is: What is the best way to practice the AMG shallowing revelation?

[sleuth]

I've been told and instructed a few things from teaching pros growing up:

• During the move to the ball imagine skipping a stone across water. Or another swing analogy is pulling an arrow from the quiver (Ben Hogan).
• At the top make it feel like you're pulling down on a rope.
• Your hands move away from your body at descent.

None of these worked for me and I've never been able to execute all of them in any good way. The first bullet has me coming across my body and steep. I'm a person that learns from repetition and feel triggers. Anyone have any insight into what it feels like for them when your arms move away from the body to shallow the club? Or have a good swing thought? It feels like an unnatural forced movement for me, which will likely lead to disaster.

[PracticeSwinger]

16 minutes ago, Duffer Mark said:

I have been trying to add shallowing to my swing and have been unsuccessful at doing it consistently. That is, I haven't actually added it to my swing. LOL I just hit some balls with my neighbor and was able to shallow off and on. Slowing my tempo down helped me shallow and hit the ball well - but I still had some misses. (Of course, it's golf!)

 

So my big question is: What is the best way to practice the AMG shallowing revelation?

All else being equal, i.e. if youre takeaway is atrocious for example (not saying it's the case) you have to first adress this - to get to a relatively good 'top' position I would think... and then I really like how they isolate the trail arm and the 3 'drills'/steps, in order, at the end of the video... slow steps until it becomes relateively ingrained

[PracticeSwinger]

7 minutes ago, sleuth said:

I've been told and instructed a few things from teaching pros growing up:

• During the move to the ball imagine skipping a stone across water. Or another swing analogy is pulling an arrow from the quiver (Ben Hogan).
• At the top make it feel like you're pulling down on a rope.
• Your hands move away from your body at descent.

None of these worked for me and I've never been able to execute all of them in any good way. The first bullet has me coming across my body and steep. I'm a person that learns from repetition and feel triggers. Anyone have any insight into what it feels like for them when your arms move away from the body to shallow the club? Or have a good swing thought? It feels like an unnatural forced movement for me, which will likely lead to disaster.

Not an instructor so take it for what it's worth... but the feel of lowering the bicep curl, trail arm, in front of my chest is really natural (compared to those 'external rotation', 'elbow to the belly button', 'drop it in the slot', others feel) and when combined with lead side pressure + body rotation... it's all you need

[Duffer Mark]

23 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

All else being equal, i.e. if youre takeaway is atrocious for example (not saying it's the case) you have to first adress this - to get to a relatively good 'top' position I would think... and then I really like how they isolate the trail arm and the 3 'drills'/steps, in order, at the end of the video... slow steps until it becomes relateively ingrained

 

Thanks for the reminder. I had to go back and watch the video again because I was tired when I first saw it. 

[glk]

1 minute ago, Duffer Mark said:

 

Thanks for the reminder. I had to go back and watch the video again because I was tired when I first saw it. 

iteach stick drills - both front side and rear - i like front cause it really gets you to address forearm roll which is a big cause of folks going shallow to steep but both are good to mix and match.     Slow to start - stick inside ball on way back and outside on the way down.   Enjoy.

[Duffer Mark]

4 minutes ago, glk said:

iteach stick drills - both front side and rear - i like front cause it really gets you to address forearm roll which is a big cause of folks going shallow to steep but both are good to mix and match.     Slow to start - stick inside ball on way back and outside on the way down.   Enjoy.

Funny, I've seen that drill on here several times. I've never done it but keep meaning to. Thanks.

[glk]

32 minutes ago, Duffer Mark said:

Funny, I've seen that drill on here several times. I've never done it but keep meaning to. Thanks.

The option is the Nike drill.     

[Kuuuch]

3 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Things like this drive me mad. The amount of people who claim their pivot shallows the club and their arms and hands are passive is never ending. 

 

If you look at his head or his shoulders or his knees and measure the drop then measure how far the hands have dropped there is a big difference between the two.

 

I believe some people believe they aren't lowering the arms and they are lucky they don't need to think about it. 

 

If you put your hands well above your head for example and bend the knees the hands drop in space but they are still above your head.

 

You can even see that his right hand is almost level with his elbow. The only way you can do this without straightening the arm is to right tilt about 12 inches which is a back breaking, weight on the right foot move of horror. 

 

His right shoulder tilts a tad but the forearm drops probably about 2 or 3 times as much(can't be bothered measuring)

Good stuff, appreciate the reply! Makes total sense 

[Ex Blade User]

9 hours ago, Kuuuch said:

So with the AMG info, does this change anything mentioned here with Tyler Coonts? This is his analysis of exactly what causes shallowing. 

 

Seems to me the left side down and around would not be a main driver of shallowing no?

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiNafregleA/?igshid=YWJhMjlhZTc=

 

I’ve never seen him hit a shot on the course I think he’s more like a professional practicer. These moves these GG guys advocate seem to not stick. It’s probably because they’re not natural? I mean look at GG’s swing, yea he gets “shallower” than anyone out there but so what? Nobody swings like that on tour, even Matthew Wolff

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

1 hour ago, glk said:

iteach stick drills - both front side and rear - i like front cause it really gets you to address forearm roll which is a big cause of folks going shallow to steep but both are good to mix and match.     Slow to start - stick inside ball on way back and outside on the way down.   Enjoy.

Stick drills? Anyone have a video for these?

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

Does the right forearm slightly supinate during this move? 

[Kuuuch]

6 minutes ago, Ex Blade User said:

I’ve never seen him hit a shot on the course I think he’s more like a professional practicer. These moves these GG guys advocate seem to not stick. It’s probably because they’re not natural? I mean look at GG’s swing, yea he gets “shallower” than anyone out there but so what? Nobody swings like that on tour, even Matthew Wolff

Agree, I think it requires way more maintenance (and unnecessary maintenance) than any other swing method. 
 

There was a time when I had lessons with them and I can see why others and myself were easily lured in. You can fairly easily look really good on video. dramatic shallowing of the shaft, rotate hard and do a “no throw” and you’re open at impact with a super bent right arm. Imo looking back what I was doing, it was more like cheating the system and not actually doing the right things to get into those positions. 

 

[GungHoGolf]

45 minutes ago, KNOWMOREDOUBLES said:

Does the right forearm slightly supinate during this move? 

Yes, the AMG video covers that at 15:08. The target is 20 degrees of trail forearm supination. 

[Rosco1216]

This is gold.

[GolfCadi]

Total newbie here (started this past season), but this makes the most sense of anything I've seen/watched/heard to date.  I have a baseball background (not very good, so terrible wrist habits anyway), and I've been fighting my "natural" tendencies to use more wrists/casting.  I decided to take the plunge and do some lessons in the offseason, and literally everything he was trying to tell me the past 3 lessons could've started with this video.  I have plenty of other things to work on, but this should (hopefully) be one less thing to have my brain working on along the way.

[Doodlebug87]

The biggest takeaway (no pun intended) for me is that for the trail arm to unfold in the way it's meant to when both hands are holding the club, the lead arm feels like it is moving closer to the chest / stretching. I did some rehearsals on video last night and noticed a tendency for the trail arm to unfold inwards when in posture versus stood up straight, which was moving my hands out to the ball too quickly with the pivot added in = mildly OTT. I really need to feel like my arm is unfolding behind me while making sure I keep the lead shoulder down / back to the target for slightly longer

[Ex Blade User]

2 hours ago, Doodlebug87 said:

The biggest takeaway (no pun intended) for me is that for the trail arm to unfold in the way it's meant to when both hands are holding the club, the lead arm feels like it is moving closer to the chest / stretching. I did some rehearsals on video last night and noticed a tendency for the trail arm to unfold inwards when in posture versus stood up straight, which was moving my hands out to the ball too quickly with the pivot added in = mildly OTT. I really need to feel like my arm is unfolding behind me while making sure I keep the lead shoulder down / back to the target for slightly longer

Yea I’m not sure why they brought up the back to the target model as bad. If I don’t have that intent, my arms don’t have time to come down? I mean jack nicklaus used that as a feel, he was pretty good. 

[Trippels]

6 minutes ago, Ex Blade User said:

Yea I’m not sure why they brought up the back to the target model as bad. If I don’t have that intent, my arms don’t have time to come down? I mean jack nicklaus used that as a feel, he was pretty good. 

They don't think keeping the back to the target a bit longer than most do is bad. I've seen them recommend that several times, even recently. What they meant in the video is that simply the motion of keeping the back to the target, or backing into the target, won't shallow the club on its own.

[PostandGhost]

Lowering the club with the right arm is something that has challenged me for a while.  I just can't seem to get a good feel for it.  I've tried the arrow out of the quiver, straightening it from the top, the bicep curl, and other feels.  Maybe my focus is on the wrong side.  What would be the complementary movement for the left arm to match up with what they showed in the AMG video regarding the right arm lowering?  It seems like it would be the left arm lowering down the chest, similar to the plane of the shoulders as they rotate in the downswing.