How do you...hit a knockdown or flighted shot?

[Shizeman]

I'm curious about what you are thinking or what your keys are when hitting a knockdown or flighted shot.  I used to have a swing that was pretty steep into the ball and this was due to a flaw in my swing.  I've fixed my swing and it's really improved my game...but with this fix, I've found I'm not as good as I used to be at knockdown or less than 100% shots compared to my older swing where being so steep helped me out a smidge in that department.  I used to be so confident in taking a little something off any club around a PW and now I'm just not the same.  

 

Would love to know how you attack it and maybe there's a couple nuggets in there I can apply to my own game.  

 

Cheers!

[MonteScheinblum]

More club, shorter backswing, less speed.

[AlohaPineapple]

for me, the timing/tempo can get a little off when trying to do a softer/slowed down swing, so thats generally what I'm focusing on (ensuring good acceleration through the ball)

 

hitting some shots on camera is helpful to get a sense of how far back you're swinging on these shots, as the feel vs. reality can be quite different

[Ex Blade User]

Combination of ball position and different follow through or less speed and more club for a low spin low flight shot 

[getitdaily]

- Ball position back just a touch.

- 3/4 backswing

- 1 more club

- abbreviated follow through with a hold off release

[MelloYello]

Best advice is to grab a longer-than-normal club and figure it out using smooth swings focusing on good contact. 

 

Honestly, the feels and swing keys depend on your particular swing and what kind of subtleties you normally have (e.g. stock ball position). 

Edited January 31 by MelloYello

[DLeightonReid]

6 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

- Ball position back just a touch.

- 3/4 backswing

- 1 more club

- abbreviated follow through with a hold off release

Exactly how I do it.  

[Socrates]

9 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

More club, shorter backswing, less speed.

This is the only correct answer.  If you want the correct result and to hit it close.

[DShepley]

9 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

More club, shorter backswing, less speed.

Bingo! Less speed which results in less spin and a lower flight.  I watch people all the time move it back in their stance, try to make an abbreviated punchy swing which spins the heck out of it.

[Jayshaft]

9 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

More club, shorter backswing, less speed.

Monte - quick question

 

this is what I have been working on for knockdowns, but one thing I have noticed with less speed is typically a pull vs my target line. Obviously face is closed - but being a straight pull, path starts shifting OTT as well. 
 

is this typically due to improper sequencing at slower speeds? Weight transfer? Rotation?

 

 

[gators78]

Just need to really exaggerate what has already been said when you practice. Try chipping a 7 iron 130 yards. It should feel like a 9-to-3 length swing because whatever you think is short will almost always still be too long. 

 

One other technical check, there are different monitors that are relatively cheap that can track ball spin, the knockdown should have less spin than your normal swing. You’ll be able to tell really quickly if you’re heading down the right path. 

 

Edit: to nerd out for a second, I’ve played the game my whole life and those off-speed iron shots are one of the coolest shots to watch. It’s really easy to add spin, but watching players hit those low flighted shots that hit once and stop (basically how Tiger hits the majority of his iron shots) is so cool. 

Edited January 31 by gators78

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Slightly closer, grip down a little, shorter motion, more club. 

[Rdailey9108]

Monte made this with Brendan and I've been doing this myself and it works great and I don't have to feel like I'm steep.

 

 

[jholz]

I like to utilize two types of punch or low trajectory shots. One is a runner, the other is a one skip stopper.

 

I play both slightly back in the stance, same abbreviated follow through, but...

 

On the runner I shorten the backswing. On the stopper, I use a normal backswing.

 

I love the stopper for mid-length par 3's into a wind. One of my favorite shots to hit.

 

[MK7Golf21]

34 minutes ago, Rdailey9108 said:

Monte made this with Brendan and I've been doing this myself and it works great and I don't have to feel like I'm steep.

 

 

 

I experienced similar to what Monte describes when I tried SnT like over a decade ago. Basically the stock swing is start left, stay left and swinging more around the body. I hit the ball very flighted doing that technique and I remember my wedges being like pro flighted. Had it's drawbacks though but I should pull out that technique again for wedge shots.

[baudi]

For a low shot: when I roll the ball back a little I prefer to open up my stance just a bit. 

Great to watch is Zac Radford.  

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, Jayshaft said:

Monte - quick question

 

this is what I have been working on for knockdowns, but one thing I have noticed with less speed is typically a pull vs my target line. Obviously face is closed - but being a straight pull, path starts shifting OTT as well. 
 

is this typically due to improper sequencing at slower speeds? Weight transfer? Rotation?

 

 

Yes, maybe backswing too long as well

[Jayshaft]

3 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Yes, maybe backswing too long as well

It all comes together now - my biggest issue in my full swings has been too long of a backswing, sounds like it’s transferring here too.

 

 Thank you!

[amace04]

My "knockdown" is more like a punch/knockdown hybrid.  It's definitely a more abbreviated swing than a full swing, but not a true punch either.  I use it for distance control on wedge shots almost exclusively, and I can dial it back if I'm in between wedges.

 

Club up, choke down,  ball back in the stance, hands forward (nothing crazy) I'm thinking about having my lead arm being parallel with the ground on the backswing (has a tendency to creep back on me so I need to make sure I'm cognitive of how far back my backswing is going), making sure hands are leading the club at impact with a sawed off follow through and not letting the hands really flip over much.

 

Where I find I might get stuck:

- Chunking it:  Delofting too much, leading edge is digging into the ground.   Might be coming too steep

- Pulling it: Hips are not turning.  Important to still have your hips turn like a full golf shot.  If my hips are freezing, my arms are whipping around my body with a closed face and tendency to miss far left.

 

I use that almost exclusively with my wedges as a "full" shot.  I know my 115y wedge will go 85, my 130 will go 105ish.  I typically don't bring that swing out past my gap wedge but could do it up to about a 9.  After 9, the club gets too delofted and I'm prone to pulling/hooking the ball left as my hands want to flip over more.

Edited January 31 by amace04

[596]

More club and think "Pitch".  

 

I have not hit a full iron in about 3 months from inside 140 yards.  140 is my 8 iron full swing.  100 is my gap wedge but I'll hit as much as an 8 iron from 100.  Much easier, more accurate, better scores. And did I mention that it is a lot of fun to hit those 120 yard pitches? 

[Tanner25]

5 hours ago, 596 said:

More club and think "Pitch".  

 

I have not hit a full iron in about 3 months from inside 140 yards.  140 is my 8 iron full swing.  100 is my gap wedge but I'll hit as much as an 8 iron from 100.  Much easier, more accurate, better scores. And did I mention that it is a lot of fun to hit those 120 yard pitches? 

 

When you say pitch, is it a 3/4 to 3/4 swing or half to 3/4?

[Pepperturbo]

What @MonteScheinblumsays. 

 

I would add a shortened follow-though.  Not hitting the ball as hard as you can, helps limit spin.  For me, conditions dictate whether it's a knockdown or flighted shot. 

[596]

2 hours ago, Tanner25 said:

 

When you say pitch, is it a 3/4 to 3/4 swing or half to 3/4?

I can't lie, I have no idea.  I don't use any physical spots like arm at 90* or club at waist high, 1/2 swing, etc.  I play totally by feel.  I know how hard I have to hit a club to go the distance.  When I'm at the range it's all I do.  Aim at 50 and 100 flags with different clubs.  It's nearly 90% of my practice. 

[Hawkeye77]

22 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

More club, shorter backswing, less speed.

 

 

That was my answer, but it would have come from my clinic notebook!  

 

For anyone that wants to see it in action (and I'm not a shill for Rick Shiels, lol), he has a breaking 75 vid from last year he shot with Adam Scott the week before The Open.  They were at Kingsbarns, so it's worth it just to see the course and Scott was such a good guy and a fun listen.

 

Towards the end of the round Scott hits a perfect 6 iron to a 125 pin into the wind using the same principles expressed by Monte.  I just saw it not too long ago and even my wife took notice when I had her come look (after we got past the obligatory, "Adam Scott?  He is so handsome and such a nice young man" - thank God it wasn't Jordan Spieth, she'd have gone on for 20 minutes) and reminded her that's why I practice hitting 100 yard 7 irons.  

 

Bless his heart, Shiels had a little trouble processing it - he's played in wind and weather all his life and doesn't seem to have or use that shot --- and not asking for folks to start taking shots at him, he seems like a good guy.  

 

At The Open Norman made the good run at when he was in the throes of Chrissy they played in some horribly windy weather and I remember him talking about low, lasered 5 irons at distances the young guys were hitting wedge and how the young pros really didn't have that flighted shot in their repertoire.

Edited February 1 by Hawkeye77

[Tanner25]

9 hours ago, 596 said:

I can't lie, I have no idea.  I don't use any physical spots like arm at 90* or club at waist high, 1/2 swing, etc.  I play totally by feel.  I know how hard I have to hit a club to go the distance.  When I'm at the range it's all I do.  Aim at 50 and 100 flags with different clubs.  It's nearly 90% of my practice. 

 

cool. Whenever, I think of a knockdown, I think more of a chippy type of swing, will need to try the pitch swing.