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Nike Engage Toe Sweep the best wedge for bad bunker players?


gdb99

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I'm not good out of sand. I used to be, 35 years ago.

I blade shots over the green. It's all technique, and I need a lot of practice. I know that.

The Nike Engage Toe Sweep looks like it would really help getting that heel/ flange into the sand. It looks like it would work great out of our super thick rough around the greens as well.

Was this the best wedge out of sand for bad bunker players? Is there something new that is as easy?

I have been playing a 56M Vokey.

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34 minutes ago, gdb99 said:

I'm not good out of sand. I used to be, 35 years ago.

I blade shots over the green. It's all technique, and I need a lot of practice. I know that.

The Nike Engage Toe Sweep looks like it would really help getting that heel/ flange into the sand. It looks like it would work great out of our super thick rough around the greens as well.

Was this the best wedge out of sand for bad bunker players? Is there something new that is as easy?

I have been playing a 56M Vokey.


I’ve the Nike you mention but I don’t find it particularly beneficial in sand though it’s superb from rough.

 

There’s an old “ Sure Out “ wedge, a Hogan I think, I’ll take a pic and add it here. Though it’s an obvious point, I’d look at the type of sand at your home course and select a SW based upon that. Perhaps ask tour pro or scratch man. 

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26 minutes ago, Pastit said:


I’ve the Nike you mention but I don’t find it particularly beneficial in sand though it’s superb from rough.

 

There’s an old “ Sure Out “ wedge, a Hogan I think, I’ll take a pic and add it here. Though it’s an obvious point, I’d look at the type of sand at your home course and select a SW based upon that. Perhaps ask tour pro or scratch man. 

Our bunkers are always pretty firm.

 

I've seen that Sure Out wedge.

I always thought less bounce and thin sole in compact sand...

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1 minute ago, gdb99 said:

Our bunkers are always pretty firm.

 

I've seen that Sure Out wedge.

I always thought less bounce and thin sole in compact sand...

Just hit down on the sand. The bounce will stop it from digging. 

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Ping G425 22 hybrid @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue HB 6 reg
PXG Gen 4 0311XP 6-GW Fujikura Axiom 75 R2 

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Those Taylormade Bigfoot full toe wedges are easy out of the sand.  My wife used one for awhile and as long as she committed to the shot she did really well with it. Pick a spot a couple inches behind the ball. Open the face some and take a swing hitting your spot and throwing the sand at your target.  You should be able to at least get it on the green with minimal effort.

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1 hour ago, gdb99 said:

Our bunkers are always pretty firm.

 

I've seen that Sure Out wedge.

I always thought less bounce and thin sole in compact sand...


Sorry I meant “ your “ pro. Yes a thick sole gives more bounce, good for links.

 

The guy above is correct about the “ High Toe “ - don’t ask me why, please. 
 

There are two ways to play IMO:

 

1) See Luke Donald on the Web. I believe he takes a shallow divot ( sand ) using the bounce, mainly using a low bounce 60D, on short shots anyway.

 

2) Some players, even good players, just simply drop the face behind the ball from a square stance and repeat it. Avoiding all the technical stuff. This works for me with the High Toe but I did spend c 50 years learning 1) above.

 

But I would not hit down too hard on a bunker face into soft sand as the club will just dig, irrespective of bounce but it would work from the bunker floor in the event of what you state. Always have your hands level with your sternum to avoid digging. 

Edited by Pastit
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Cleveland Golf

Smart Sole 4

(you can buy used Smart Sole, Smart Sole 2(I play) and Smart Sole 3)

Callaway Golf

Sure Out

(no longer offered by Callaway, but available off ebay new and used 56,58,60,64 degrees. I am a lefty, reason link goes to left handed on ebay)

Marketed as just play like a normal iron, no open face, open stance as in some sand wedge teaching.

I only use mine out of bunker or rough 50 yards in and I do not find it works for me on a tight lie.

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Cleveland Launcher XL 7-DW, Projext X Catalyst 60 R

Cleveland CBX 56° Full Face, Project X Catalyst 80 R

Evnroll ER10 34" Winn ProX 1.18 grip

Srixon Soft Feel/Callaway Supersoft

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Two clubs im sure of that work unbelievably out of sand. Its so easy it feels like cheating. You dont have to fan the face wife open either... you just slightly open or leave it bassically square depending on soft or hard sand. Its a callaway pm grind wedge. Ping makes a new ping eye wedge which looks identical to this callaway pm grind wedge so id imagine it works the same. Overall though the magic thats helping the wedges be soo much better out of the sand is the high amount of trailing edge bounce. Any wedge that has 14 bounce should be wayy easier out of the sand basically.

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22 hours ago, gdb99 said:

I'm not good out of sand. I used to be, 35 years ago.

I blade shots over the green. It's all technique, and I need a lot of practice. I know that.

The Nike Engage Toe Sweep looks like it would really help getting that heel/ flange into the sand. It looks like it would work great out of our super thick rough around the greens as well.

Was this the best wedge out of sand for bad bunker players? Is there something new that is as easy?

I have been playing a 56M Vokey.

I played the toe sweep 58 for a couple of years and it's easily my most fav SW of all times. 

However I wouldn't say it provides the help for a bad bunker player, especially on relatively hard surfaces.  To get the toe bump to engage in a shot, you REALLY have to open the face which is scary for most, even more so for ones who aren't too sure about their short game in the first place. But, once you are comfortable opening it and keep it open through the entire contact, the toe bump really does its job. 

If you are not confident in bunker situation, something with wide sole would really make those shot cake walks. Setup square, swing away and let the sole do its job. 

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Some other great options that I like and use:

 

1) Callaway PM Grind 54 or 56 Degree. It's based off the Eye 2 mentioned above in many ways.  I also like the full face grooves.

2) Ping Zing 2 S2 54.5 Degree (I actually like this even more, but not everyone likes older equipment)

 

Both are cheat codes out of the sand without being one-trick ponies.

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- Taylormade Sim

5W (17.5), 7W (20.5), 9W (23.5) - Ping G425 Max

5H - Ping G425

6i-UW / 6i, 8i, PW - Ping i210

SW - Callaway PM Grind 54.14

LW - Callaway PM Grind 60.10

P - Bettinardi BB5 / SC Pro Platinum Laguna 2.5
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On 2/5/2023 at 4:48 PM, gdb99 said:

I'm not good out of sand. I used to be, 35 years ago.

I blade shots over the green. It's all technique, and I need a lot of practice. I know that.

The Nike Engage Toe Sweep looks like it would really help getting that heel/ flange into the sand. It looks like it would work great out of our super thick rough around the greens as well.

Was this the best wedge out of sand for bad bunker players? Is there something new that is as easy?

I have been playing a 56M Vokey.


Thought I’d return on the TM High Toe. I only bought mine as it was heavily discounted but had more bounce than I normally use, a 56D 14B.
 

But I tried it yesterday for only the 2nd time. The ball-flight was so high that I read up the TM blurb which describes the design-purpose as LOW flight. 
 

But the Web reviews find like I did - how odd is that. Also the the clubs play low to quoted bounce. I find it great out of well-raked bunkers and I can now see why. The ball-flight is more like that of a 60D. Hope this helps.

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I've hit the best bunker shots of my life with PM Grind wedges.  I look like I know what I'm doing almost all of the time. 

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Callaway Paradym HL (set to 15.5*) Speeder Evolution V 661

Tour Edge Exotics E722 18* Ventus Blue 6

Cobra King Tec 4 Utility MMT 80
Ping Blueprint S 5-PW Recoil Dart 90

Ping Glide 4.0 50* SS, 54* WS KBS Tour
Callaway MD PM Grind Raw 58* KBS Tour
Toulon Garage Le Mans 
Titleist AVX/ProVI

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The Toe Sweep is an outstanding wedge, to be sure, but..........

 

The design of the TS makes it wonderful for golfers who already understand how a wedge sole interacts with the ground/sand, and are good enough to manipulate that interaction thus utilizing the different bounce/grind options to handle different lies/shots/etc.  But it is not a wedge that I would suggest for someone struggling, in fact, quite the opposite.  I would suggest it for someone who is really, really good around the green and looking to accentuate that, or consolidate two clubs into one so they could fit another club in their bag somewhere else.  

 

For a "poor" bunker player, there really is only one design.  It is the "scoop sole/EYE 2/PM" grind featuring a concave in the middle with two different bounce angles, one right near the leading edge, and another bag by the trailing edge.  With these two bounces, it can help with being too shallow OR too steep, both of which affect low point control.  And let's be honest, if you are struggling in the bunker (or on pitch shots), it is 99% likely that you are doing so because of poor low point control.  

 

Some of my favorite wedges with this grind:

OG PING EYE 2 - SW or LW, both are simply amazing

OG PM grind - A legal groove, almost identical copy of the OG EYE 2 wedge, with a 64° option available

TMAG ATV sole wedges - All the way back to the OG ATV and through the Big Toes, these are very traditional looking from address, but feature this grind underneath "the hood" 

I'm probably forgetting some others, but here's one more option that is kinda cool - Find an old Cleveland wedge from the 80's that has been played for 20+ years.  The "Cleveland" script on the sole of the club will have become worn into almost the same type of grind as described above, just though the friction of 1,000's of bunker shots over time.  This will give you the grind you seek, but on a thinner sole.  This is one reason that older pros preferred a wedge that was "broken in," at least back before grinds became a more prevalent option.  

 

All that said, find an OG PING EYE 2 SW and just go to town learning how to get out of a bunker again.  Then, if you need to upgrade, you can.  But if not, you can just play that wedge forever, like @mat562 said, lol!

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The Vokey K grind is so easy to play from bunkers, it feels like cheating. I've been through many different 58* K grind heads over the years, and I can't imagine using anything else. I would consider myself to be a competent, but not great bunker player, for reference.

Ping G430 LST 9* (set to 7.5*), 45", Fujikura Ventus TR Black 6x
Ping G430 LST 14.5* (set to 13*) Fujikura Ventus Black 7x
Ping G430 Max 18* (set to 17*) Fujikura Ventus Black 8x or Tour Edge CBX Iron-Wood 17* (Black Pearl) Fujikura Ventus HB Blue 9x
Epon AF-306 4i + Epon AF-Tour CB2 5-PW, Nippon Modus 125X
Yururi Seida Black 52*, Nippon Modus 125/Titleist Vokey SM8 58* K-Grind & 62* M-Grind DG S200
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1 hour ago, 3_Jack_Par said:

The Vokey K grind is so easy to play from bunkers, it feels like cheating. I've been through many different 58* K grind heads over the years, and I can't imagine using anything else. I would consider myself to be a competent, but not great bunker player, for reference.


Odd as it’s not in your list so far as I can see !

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1 hour ago, Pastit said:


Odd as it’s not in your list so far as I can see !

It's in the row with my wedges, after the Corey Paul one 🙂

Ping G430 LST 9* (set to 7.5*), 45", Fujikura Ventus TR Black 6x
Ping G430 LST 14.5* (set to 13*) Fujikura Ventus Black 7x
Ping G430 Max 18* (set to 17*) Fujikura Ventus Black 8x or Tour Edge CBX Iron-Wood 17* (Black Pearl) Fujikura Ventus HB Blue 9x
Epon AF-306 4i + Epon AF-Tour CB2 5-PW, Nippon Modus 125X
Yururi Seida Black 52*, Nippon Modus 125/Titleist Vokey SM8 58* K-Grind & 62* M-Grind DG S200
Byron Morgan long pipe neck B-17, Brushed Mystic finish, 34" or Byron Morgan long pipe neck beached 007x

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I am a bad golfer and know nothing about grinds. These are my wedges:

20230210_174356.jpg.a3eb367019ef826b1cbf40956c5cd942.jpg

The Titleist is 12 bounce and I found on my course it is pretty difficult to get out of the quite firm bunkers - it is not in the bag anymore. The 60o is 8 bounce, the full face 58o 9 bounce. Much better. Unless I have a bad day, I am not worrued about bunker shots (my short game however...).

Biggest change to my bunker game was to open the clubface.

I would suggest you use more loft than 56o.

 

 

Set 1: Inesis 100 set: D, 4h, 6/7i, 8/9i, pw, sw, P + Cleveland 52o and 60o wedges

Set 2: Srixon ZX 2h, Cobra One Length 3 utility (set to 4i), MD 7i & 9i, TM RSi 50o, Cleveland RTX full face 54o & 58o, Wilson Putter

 

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for me it is hands down the original Callaway PM grind, was like cheating from the bunker

 Taylormade     M4     10.5

 Taylormade     M4     16.5  3hl

 Taylormade     M4     23 degree hybrid

 Titliest             T300  5-GW

 Vokey SM 7                54

 Callaway PM grind    58

 2015 Scotty Cameron GoLo 5

 Titliest   Tour Speed

 Golf Pride 2G white

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