looks like USGA going to find juniors

[IndyArcher]

I think the greatest tragedy in almost all sports is two-fold:

 

1. It seems that today virtually parent thinks that their kid is the next Tiger Woods and has potential to be a PGAT superstar. 

2. We have removed so much of the 'fun' from kids' sports. Growing up, baseball was my thing, but played football and basketball, too. Sports was just fun to me. I practiced hard and played hard, but sports was--and is--simply a means of competition, exercise and socializing. 

 

Yes, some kids are going to excel with natural ability, but the overwhelming majority are simply going to be like most of us. 

 

I have a co-worker who typifies this. Their son is a good soccer player. Better than average for sure, but nothing exceptional. They have it in their minds that he is bound for the World Cup, so much so that they put up a GoFundMe page asking for people to pay for the kid AND the parents to go to some exclusive soccer camp in Florida this year. They are trying to get friends to pony up thousands of dollars to send them all on a Florida vacation because someone convinced them that their kid is the next star. Heck, if THEY are that convinced that he is that special, take out a second mortgage. I've got enough of my own demands in life to not have to prioritize the almost certain failure of a kid to make it rich playing kicking an overgrown Chromesoft! 

[iteachgolf]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Growing the Game?  At $50.00 an hour that is a yearly income of $129,600.00 based on a 54 hour work week.  Simple math.  You aren't booking 54 hours of lessons a week every week and I know that.  If you book just half of that is 27 hours.  If half adult at $150.00 and half at $50 for a junior the income still comes out to $129,600.00 a year which is cost averaging.  Plenty as a private business owner that you are it's only employee to cover all your overhead and make a comfortable living.  The average salary in the US is $53,000 a year.  I am all for Teaching Golf Pro's to make as much as they can.  My opinion is Charging over $100 an hour to a junior is steep.  As I have said, "Growing the Game" is only about making more money.  I have met very few in the industry that are actually "Growing the Game".  A good start would be by teaching professionals to charge juniors less.  I will add this, shame on a course that would charge a teaching professional a fee off of a junior depending on the agreement to teach at the facility.

 

To be clear, I pay $300 a month whether my kid sees his coach once or 6 times..  This isn't swing instruction, it is to be a coach and 99% of the time is spent on the course.  During season it may be once or twice a month.  As the snowbirds leave, they will get together an play a lot several times a week.

 

 

Industry standard is the facility is going to take 20-30%.  Launch monitor is $20k, 3D is $20k, force plates are $20k, SAM puttlab is $10k.  I paid for my building which is over $100k.  The expenses can be a lot more than you’d think. 

 

And I am definitely booking 54 hours a week if you count after school program, which I do (24-30 hours a week from that alone)

[tiger1873]

11 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

Industry standard is the facility is going to take 20-30%.  Launch monitor is $20k, 3D is $20k, force plates are $20k, SAM puttlab is $10k.  I paid for my building which is over $100k.  The expenses can be a lot more than you’d think. 

 

And I am definitely booking 54 hours a week if you count after school program, which I do (24-30 hours a week from that alone)

 

I think if your a 1 man shop and they have to pay for launch monitor and all the extra tech your mentioning it doesn't pencil out.  A lot this stuff needs to be shared across multiple instructors.

 

I can understand the launch monitor but the other stuff isn't going to get enough hours to make sense.

 

If all the equipment costs so much seems like would be smart to work with multiple instructors and form a team for players that need it.

 

The average amateur doesn't care about tech though and a lot people don't have it.

[heavy_hitter]

20 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

Industry standard is the facility is going to take 20-30%.  Launch monitor is $20k, 3D is $20k, force plates are $20k, SAM puttlab is $10k.  I paid for my building which is over $100k.  The expenses can be a lot more than you’d think. 

 

And I am definitely booking 54 hours a week if you count after school program, which I do (24-30 hours a week from that alone)

Things like Launch Monitors etc. are the costs of doing business.  We have CPU's, Printers, scanners, etc. that pull from our profits.  Those costs aren't passed on to the consumer.  Like I previously said, if a facility is taking 20-30% off the top for a junior to learn, shame on them.  They shouldn't be charging a dime for that junior to be there.  Complete BS in my opinion.  If your golf facility is taking 20-30% off the top when you built the building, again complete BS.  They should be thanking you for the number of people showing up on property buying balls, merchandise, food and beverage, range tokens, and rounds.  I would have never heard of the facility you work at if it weren't for you and I spent money at that facility.

Edited February 27 by heavy_hitter

[wegobomber31]

5 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Clearly you are naive, foolish, and possibly a bit dumb.  The more important thing is what allows the suits at the USGA to shout from the rooftops about the good they did.  The second most important thing is how easily can this be done.  The easiest way this can be done is take the best players you can find, have them spend a day in your "program,"  then take all the credit for something you had nothing to do with(they were talented before you ever got near them), and then put your PR people on overtime to run a psyop to convince the public at large that you are the reason they have done so well.

 

"Providing kids with a positive outlet...."  Bah.  Muggles.  

 

That seems to be a very glass 90%-empty view of this.  I'm a little more optimistic that some kids will get some golf opportunities that they otherwise wouldn't, and can't see how that is a bad thing.  And yes, they will be quick to pat themselves on the back for it.

 

I see the national team thing as more or less a breeding ground for future Walker Cup prospects -- where essentially the top junior national team members eventually migrate to the national amateur team and probably the national young professional team.  I'm not aware of any/many international team events for juniors so maybe they end up underwriting a junior Walker Cup/Curtis Cup down the road.  That ends up being a pretty good opportunity even if it's for a very small subsection of the junior golf world.

[iteachgolf]

7 minutes ago, wegobomber31 said:

 

That seems to be a very glass 90%-empty view of this.  I'm a little more optimistic that some kids will get some golf opportunities that they otherwise wouldn't, and can't see how that is a bad thing.  And yes, they will be quick to pat themselves on the back for it.

 

I see the national team thing as more or less a breeding ground for future Walker Cup prospects -- where essentially the top junior national team members eventually migrate to the national amateur team and probably the national young professional team.  I'm not aware of any/many international team events for juniors so maybe they end up underwriting a junior Walker Cup/Curtis Cup down the road.  That ends up being a pretty good opportunity even if it's for a very small subsection of the junior golf world.

There are Junior Ryder Cup, Junior Presidents Cup and Junior Solheim Cup teams already. USGA isn’t a factor in any of them. 

[wegobomber31]

10 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

There are Junior Ryder Cup, Junior Presidents Cup and Junior Solheim Cup teams already. USGA isn’t a factor in any of them. 

 

Sorry, I meant to say 'aware of any international events for juniors' that the USGA is involved with.  I realize the Junior Ryder Cup is PGA of America based on points, the junior PGA championship top 2 and captain's pick? And Junior Prez Cup is AJGA Rolex based with a captains pick.

[Bizzle80]

This is a really Debbie Downer group. The USGA's is a non-profit with a mission is to :Strengthen the Game's Foundation, Promote Outstanding Playing Experiences, Deepen Engagement with Golfers, Expand Participation and Celebrate the Games History.

 

This is an AMAZING opportunity for a group flush with cash to pour money INTO Junior Golf. They are not trying to take your money, they aren't trying to take over local junior golf tours, they aren't trying to put local coaches out of business.

 

They want to support talented juniors with access they might not have, they want to financially support a National Team for golf, they want to provide better access for equipment, coaching and travel for talented juniors.

 

I have a hard time seeing how the attempt to actually put money behind 'growing the game' is bad. If you look at the USGA mission statement this program supports 4 of the 5 objectives.

 

 

 

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, Bizzle80 said:

This is a really Debbie Downer group. The USGA's is a non-profit with a mission is to :Strengthen the Game's Foundation, Promote Outstanding Playing Experiences, Deepen Engagement with Golfers, Expand Participation and Celebrate the Games History.

 

This is an AMAZING opportunity for a group flush with cash to pour money INTO Junior Golf. They are not trying to take your money, they aren't trying to take over local junior golf tours, they aren't trying to put local coaches out of business.

 

They want to support talented juniors with access they might not have, they want to financially support a National Team for golf, they want to provide better access for equipment, coaching and travel for talented juniors.

 

I have a hard time seeing how the attempt to actually put money behind 'growing the game' is bad. If you look at the USGA mission statement this program supports 4 of the 5 objectives.

 

 

 

 

The issue for a lot us is  heard the story before. There is a ton money out there for juniors who need to play tournaments.

 

AJGA has a program and a lot state associations give money too.

 

Coaches also donate their time and places like IMG give scholarships.

 

If all else fail I am nearly certain some wealthy individuals and corporations will sponsor a kid.

 

So how is this going to be different then what is always there?

 

The only difference I see is the USGA is going to add additional layer and tell every junior they need to play AJGA tournaments which will not look anything like they do today.

    

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, Bizzle80 said:

This is a really Debbie Downer group. The USGA's is a non-profit with a mission is to :Strengthen the Game's Foundation, Promote Outstanding Playing Experiences, Deepen Engagement with Golfers, Expand Participation and Celebrate the Games History.

 

This is an AMAZING opportunity for a group flush with cash to pour money INTO Junior Golf. They are not trying to take your money, they aren't trying to take over local junior golf tours, they aren't trying to put local coaches out of business.

 

They want to support talented juniors with access they might not have, they want to financially support a National Team for golf, they want to provide better access for equipment, coaching and travel for talented juniors.

 

I have a hard time seeing how the attempt to actually put money behind 'growing the game' is bad. If you look at the USGA mission statement this program supports 4 of the 5 objectives.

 

 

 

 

 

Given that 14 people earn more than $335k a year in salary, the USGA has had the money to do this for years.  Why now?  

 

You sound a lot like the people who wanted Toronto to pursue a bid to host Olympics, with the corresponding $2.5 billion(and climbing) bid, just so that a $100 million road project would be done.

 

Again, what is the problem this "solution" is addressing?  And whether they are trying to put people out of business or not, that is what will happen, because everything will need to be "certified" by them.  

[leezer99]

@iteachgolf Who are your most valuable students? The occasional rich guy trying to win his member guest, an aspiring junior golfer or some other demo? 

[heavy_hitter]

18 hours ago, Bizzle80 said:

This is a really Debbie Downer group. The USGA's is a non-profit with a mission is to :Strengthen the Game's Foundation, Promote Outstanding Playing Experiences, Deepen Engagement with Golfers, Expand Participation and Celebrate the Games History.

 

This is an AMAZING opportunity for a group flush with cash to pour money INTO Junior Golf. They are not trying to take your money, they aren't trying to take over local junior golf tours, they aren't trying to put local coaches out of business.

 

They want to support talented juniors with access they might not have, they want to financially support a National Team for golf, they want to provide better access for equipment, coaching and travel for talented juniors.

 

I have a hard time seeing how the attempt to actually put money behind 'growing the game' is bad. If you look at the USGA mission statement this program supports 4 of the 5 objectives.

 

 

 

I would argue that this will not Strengthen or Expand participation in golf.  In fact, I believe it will lessen the participation in junior golf.  They are flushing the money in the wrong way.

 

To someone that has younger kids, I am sure this program sounds awesome.  Yay, USGA is doing this.  To those of us that kids in these age brackets, what the USGA is doing is a mistake.

Edited February 28 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

9 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

I would argue that this will not Strengthen or Expand participation in golf.  In fact, I believe it will lessen the participation in junior golf.  They are flushing the money in the wrong way.

 

What a lot people don't understand is all these tours in the US actually help new kids play tournament golf and others gain confidence.  There are so many tours in the US we are the only country that actually has kids who play junior golf at high level.

 

Other countries Junior tours are basically not that competitive for a lot reasons.

 

The reality is you start out playing tournaments in a local tour and usually end up seeking better tours and competition as you get better.  Everyone knows what better tournaments are that is not a secret.

 

What happens in other countries is you have 1 tour you start out on and there are a few people who dominate that tour.  

 

It sounds great to have AJGA run everything and have clear path.  The question your need to ask is what happens when you have a local tour director that basically mismanages tournaments.   If you haven't seen this you haven't played many tournaments.

 

Last year we attended a AJGA Junior and the officials were clueless about rules and were basically interns who never played golf.

 

 

[Petethreeput]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

I would argue that this will not Strengthen or Expand participation in golf.  In fact, I believe it will lessen the participation in junior golf.  They are flushing the money in the wrong way.

 

To someone that has younger kids, I am sure this program sounds awesome.  Yay, USGA is doing this.  To those of us that kids in these age brackets, what the USGA is doing is a mistake.

I think you are correct. The USGA is now picking winners and losers.  That 15 year old golf loser might become the 6'4" point guard, and chances are, the 15 year old winner becomes Tony Finau's whipping boy.

[heavy_hitter]

3 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

I think you are correct. The USGA is now picking winners and losers.  That 15 year old golf loser might become the 6'4" point guard, and chances are, the 15 year old winner becomes Tony Finau's whipping boy.

Not to mention, I really think this hurts participation in Junior Girl's golf.  I think it will make it better on the upper end, but will hurt the participation in the middle to lower levels.

[tiger1873]

58 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Not to mention, I really think this hurts participation in Junior Girl's golf.  I think it will make it better on the upper end, but will hurt the participation in the middle to lower levels.

 

Girls golf is in huge decline just from the AJGA changes they implemented.

 

 My younger daughter is a 2029 and I can tell you that it's easier to play AJGA events then my older daughter is a 2025.

 

I got an email yesterday there were 15 spots left open in a preview qualifier after initial application and I think another one had 7 spots.  Being this early in the season is kind of shocking.

 

4 years ago I had to sit as a alternate for the 1 qualifier late in the season.  As for preview events you had to be a senior to even get a shot at it.

 

At this rate why even bother to have stars if they can't fill their events.

[Bizzle80]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

Not to mention, I really think this hurts participation in Junior Girl's golf.  I think it will make it better on the upper end, but will hurt the participation in the middle to lower levels.

 

Sorry, I generally trust your experience in jr golf, but I am failing to see how the USGA - an organization that already puts on several majors, some of the biggest Am championships in the world and now wants to pump support into the junior game - is going to hurt participation, especially in girls?

 

If they create more tournaments and add financial support to lower levels of junior golf - creating additional access points for juniors, how does this hurt?

 

19 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

The only difference I see is the USGA is going to add additional layer and tell every junior they need to play AJGA tournaments which will not look anything like they do today.

    

 

I am also not sure where everyone keeps saying they are going to make everyone play AJGA? They may use AJGA as one of multiple reference points for picking top level talent for the discussed Regional and National level teams, but USGA is not in cahoots with the AJGA to try and make a buck.

 

I am kind of done arguing over the same points, but ill just leave this thread with a simple point against all of these concerns that the USGA is trying to make some added revenue, or trying to determine the direction of all of junior golf. This is literally the opposite of their goal.

 

USGA is setting up an endowment to pay for these grants in perpetuity. They just did this for Walker/Curtis Cups. Its smart financing.

My guess is that the USGA will ADD support to all of the regional/local tours and provide grants for golfers at lower levels who need it, and then create that National Team pipeline for top players. Those top juniors will probably STILL be playing in those local events, but now have the support to play in larger ones too.

 

Ok, will leave you all to your concerns. I look forward to seeing how it all shakes out, but added financial support to junior anything is never a problem. Will mistakes be made? Sure. Will some individuals miss out? Of course. But will the overall ecosystem for junior golfer be better off for it? No doubt.

 

 

 

[tiger1873]

6 minutes ago, Bizzle80 said:

 

Sorry, I generally trust your experience in jr golf, but I am failing to see how the USGA - an organization that already puts on several majors, some of the biggest Am championships in the world and now wants to pump support into the junior game - is going to hurt participation, especially in girls?

 

If they create more tournaments and add financial support to lower levels of junior golf - creating additional access points for juniors, how does this hurt?

 

 

I am also not sure where everyone keeps saying they are going to make everyone play AJGA? They may use AJGA as one of multiple reference points for picking top level talent for the discussed Regional and National level teams, but USGA is not in cahoots with the AJGA to try and make a buck.

 

I am kind of done arguing over the same points, but ill just leave this thread with a simple point against all of these concerns that the USGA is trying to make some added revenue, or trying to determine the direction of all of junior golf. This is literally the opposite of their goal.

 

USGA is setting up an endowment to pay for these grants in perpetuity. They just did this for Walker/Curtis Cups. Its smart financing.

My guess is that the USGA will ADD support to all of the regional/local tours and provide grants for golfers at lower levels who need it, and then create that National Team pipeline for top players. Those top juniors will probably STILL be playing in those local events, but now have the support to play in larger ones too.

 

Ok, will leave you all to your concerns. I look forward to seeing how it all shakes out, but added financial support to junior anything is never a problem. Will mistakes be made? Sure. Will some individuals miss out? Of course. But will the overall ecosystem for junior golfer be better off for it? No doubt.

 

 

 

 

The reason a lot us are saying the USGA  want to use the AJGA is they mentioned that there doing a partnership in multiple press releases.

 

Then if you have been involved with AJGA they have changed a few things that made a few of us scratch out heads.

 

First you no longer Burn PBE stars for events. This greatly alters strategy and fields.   The biggest gainer was 2027 class because they never burned stars so were able to play more events at the cost of ones who did.

 

Then they keep lowering the age of Junior All stars.   I think now they base age on 15 before a certain date which makes a lot kids miss out.   This no Doubt hurt 2026 kids this year. Basically means 2027 will end up with  even more stars.

 

These changes all make sense once I read the USGA press release.  As a parent of a 2025 and 2029 I am going to be stuck in between this.

 

At the end of the day my 2029 girl will benefit from some these changes. I doubt we will get an money but I can see where some things might be better. I can also see how things will be worse but I can be positive.

 

However this seems to effect my 2025 probably not this year so much but it sure feels like I need to have her look beyond junior golf in the years ahead much earlier then I thought.

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, Bizzle80 said:

 

Sorry, I generally trust your experience in jr golf, but I am failing to see how the USGA - an organization that already puts on several majors, some of the biggest Am championships in the world and now wants to pump support into the junior game - is going to hurt participation, especially in girls?

 

If they create more tournaments and add financial support to lower levels of junior golf - creating additional access points for juniors, how does this hurt?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The same reason USGA banned anchoring putters for 70 year olds.  The same reason USGA thinks there is a distance problem with a ball, yet that distance problem only effects 1% of golfers in the world.  I could go on about the USGA.  The National Team is not a bad idea and I am not going to argue that.  The rest of it in the press release is not. 

 

Already programs for the underprivileged, Check

Already equipment programs for the underprivileged, Check

Already Grants and reduced fee with AJGA and Allied Programs, Check

 

If the USGA really wants to help, help reduce the costs for EVERYONE.  The costs shouldn't be reduced just for a segment of the population in which there are already programs and are underused. 

 

"Hope" is what keeps parents and kids going in this game.  Most of it is the "Hope" of playing collegiately.  What USGA is doing is closing the door on "Hope" for the average or less kid.  Once that parent/kid sees that he/she can't get into the PGA section and USGA state events that are meaningful, I presume parents will see the writing on the wall.  Makes no sense to spend $400.00 on a Hurricane tournament and another $500.00 in travel expenses at that point.  This will point to less participation and right now participation in the Junior Market is already down.  Right now there are 2,625 boys and 912 girls ranked for the class of 2023.  My guess is the majority thinking they have a shot at capturing a spot on a college team.  Realistically, from those numbers there will be between 400 and 500 boy's move on and 300-400 girls.  The USGA will be removing that "Hope" for a good majority of kids, thus less participation.

 

The number of Junior Athletes participating in High School Sports has been in a state of decline for years.  Girl's worse than boy's and covid sped up the trend.  In HS girls sports for 2021-2022 girl's participation in HS Golf was down 27%.  My opinion is that "travel ball" is a main reason participation is declining. A) Playing travel ball creates burnout.  B) Kids stop participating in HS because they see the writing on the wall through travel ball.  They know who the best players are and can't keep up.  Same thing will happen within the USGA alliances of golf tours.  If a kid can't play the USGA Section or PGA Section, they will just stop playing.

Edited February 28 by heavy_hitter

[yellowlover519]

23 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

The reason a lot us are saying the USGA  want to use the AJGA is they mentioned that there doing a partnership in multiple press releases.

 

Then if you have been involved with AJGA they have changed a few things that made a few of us scratch out heads.

 

First you no longer Burn PBE stars for events. This greatly alters strategy and fields.   The biggest gainer was 2027 class because they never burned stars so were able to play more events at the cost of ones who did.

 

Then they keep lowering the age of Junior All stars.   I think now they base age on 15 before a certain date which makes a lot kids miss out.   This no Doubt hurt 2026 kids this year. Basically means 2027 will end up with  even more stars.

 

These changes all make sense once I read the USGA press release.  As a parent of a 2025 and 2029 I am going to be stuck in between this.

 

At the end of the day my 2029 girl will benefit from some these changes. I doubt we will get an money but I can see where some things might be better. I can also see how things will be worse but I can be positive.

 

However this seems to effect my 2025 probably not this year so much but it sure feels like I need to have her look beyond junior golf in the years ahead much earlier then I thought.

Tiger - I’m a very curious why you have such a gripe with the AJGA. If you don’t think they’re worthy, don’t play them.  If you think certain tourneys are weak based on location, go there and get fully exempt.  

 

I can’t speak for the girls’ fields, but the tournaments I’ve been to over the years had solid fields and were well run. 
 

I think your local and nearby PGA sections have events, both junior and amateur, where you can do well and get noticed for college, so AJGA is not the only route, but I do think that AJGA does it right.

 

As for costs - I don’t think it costs any more to play and AJGA event than any other event that is not within driving distance.

 

I do agree that the new age change cutoff has screwed a year of junior all-stars for 14/15 year-olds.

[tiger1873]

11 minutes ago, yellowlover519 said:

Tiger - I’m a very curious why you have such a gripe with the AJGA. If you don’t think they’re worthy, don’t play them.  If you think certain tourneys are weak based on location, go there and get fully exempt.  

 

I can’t speak for the girls’ fields, but the tournaments I’ve been to over the years had solid fields and were well run. 
 

I think your local and nearby PGA sections have events, both junior and amateur, where you can do well and get noticed for college, so AJGA is not the only route, but I do think that AJGA does it right.

 

As for costs - I don’t think it costs any more to play and AJGA event than any other event that is not within driving distance.

 

I do agree that the new age change cutoff has screwed a year of junior all-stars for 14/15 year-olds.

 

I don't  have an issue with how they have run tournaments I want strong fields.  What I don't like is what seems to be a deliberate agenda of making the tournaments with weaker fields and it does appear the changes done lately hurt kids from 2024, 2025, 2026  the most. 

 

Winning exempt doesn't mean anything if the fields keep getting weaker and because you need to keep getting ridicules amounts of stars it is costing more then ever to get in.

 

Personally burning of stars was tough but you had to pick and choose what your going to play and if you were good enough to become exempt it meant something.

 

Now all one has to do is find the weakest field with AJGA stars and your in if you can accumulate enough stars.

Edited February 28 by tiger1873

[iteachgolf]

8 hours ago, leezer99 said:

@iteachgolf Who are your most valuable students? The occasional rich guy trying to win his member guest, an aspiring junior golfer or some other demo? 

Depends how you see value. I make the most money from tour players and elite ams (who generally are successful and have money).  I get the most enjoyment out of long term player development.  So a lot of times that’s juniors but also they become tour players and top ams.  I’ve worked with some of my players for 16+ years now. 

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

The number of Junior Athletes participating in High School Sports has been in a state of decline for years.  Girl's worse than boy's and covid sped up the trend.  In HS girls sports for 2021-2022 girl's participation in HS Golf was down 27%.  My opinion is that "travel ball" is a main reason participation is declining. A) Playing travel ball creates burnout.  B) Kids stop participating in HS because they see the writing on the wall through travel ball.  They know who the best players are and can't keep up.  Same thing will happen within the USGA alliances of golf tours.  If a kid can't play the USGA Section or PGA Section, they will just stop playing.

 

But frankly travel ball is where these kids should be playing their sports.  High schools shouldn't be spending the resources they do(I've heard schools can spend close to 20% of their budget on athletics related things) on athletics.  PE class is one thing.  If the number of girls playing any given sport, whether part of a club or at an HS is the same, that is what matters for the sport.  Not to mention, maybe a large number of kids need to see the writing on the wall sooner, and focus on the important stuff.  Getting good grades, getting into college or learning a trade.  If they ain't got the skills to pay the bills athletically, why should publicly funded institutions be spending so much money to keep up this charade?

 

I would also argue that the current thing is happening now.  Your son's school is something of a powerhouse in golf.  There are only so many spots, and there are a lot of good players.  The current system at least allows the 10th best golfer at his high school to play tournaments, cause he isn't playing for the school.  

 

The rest of your post I agree with, but I do take issue with this last part.  

 

 

 

[heavy_hitter]

24 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

But frankly travel ball is where these kids should be playing their sports.  High schools shouldn't be spending the resources they do(I've heard schools can spend close to 20% of their budget on athletics related things) on athletics.  PE class is one thing.  If the number of girls playing any given sport, whether part of a club or at an HS is the same, that is what matters for the sport.  Not to mention, maybe a large number of kids need to see the writing on the wall sooner, and focus on the important stuff.  Getting good grades, getting into college or learning a trade.  If they ain't got the skills to pay the bills athletically, why should publicly funded institutions be spending so much money to keep up this charade?

 

I would also argue that the current thing is happening now.  Your son's school is something of a powerhouse in golf.  There are only so many spots, and there are a lot of good players.  The current system at least allows the 10th best golfer at his high school to play tournaments, cause he isn't playing for the school.  

 

The rest of your post I agree with, but I do take issue with this last part.  

 

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with you.  The HS sport model is antiquated, but will not change.  Many think that HS athletics help keep kids off the street for a few years and helps give the kid a chance with proper role models.  The longer you can keep them with supervision, the better it is for the kid.

 

If I answered your question completely we would be getting way off topic.  Education is no longer about making good grades, but public educators giving grades just to make sure they pass.  Part of the money from the State comes from graduation rates.  Teachers fail the kids then school districts lose money.  Everything is tied together.  Kids playing sports tend to do better in the classroom which is a win win for the schools.  More supervision for them is a good thing in educators eyes.

 

Schools in Florida, for the most part don't get much of an athletic budget.  Most goes to keeping up facilities.  The rest anymore is usually fundraised by booster groups.

 

The current system though, that 10th player on our team is still playing Hurricane events and SFPGA Prep Tour shooting 90.  They aren't getting into the bigger events.   In the USGA system, it tells me they aren't getting into the Allied Partner events either.  If the private tours are reduced in numbers because of the possible monopoly being established with USGA associations and PGA chapters, there will be limited opportunities outside of HS as well.

Edited February 28 by heavy_hitter

[heavy_hitter]

Want to add, this is probably one of the best discussions the junior forums has had.  Very civil for once...  lol

 

[golfortennis]

17 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

 

I don't disagree with you.  The HS sport model is antiquated, but will not change.  Many think that HS athletics help keep kids off the street for a few years and helps give the kid a chance with proper role models.  The longer you can keep them with supervision, the better it is for the kid.

 

If I answered your question completely we would be getting way off topic.  Education is no longer about making good grades, but public educators giving grades just to make sure they pass.  Part of the money from the State comes from graduation rates.  Teachers fail the kids then school districts lose money.  Everything is tied together.  Kids playing sports tend to do better in the classroom which is a win win for the schools.  More supervision for them is a good thing in educators eyes.

 

Schools in Florida, for the most part don't get much of an athletic budget.  Most goes to keeping up facilities.  The rest anymore is usually fundraised by booster groups.

 

The current system though, that 10th player on our team is still playing Hurricane events and SFPGA Prep Tour shooting 90.  They aren't getting into the bigger events.   In the USGA system, it tells me they aren't getting into the Allied Partner events either.  If the private tours are reduced in numbers because of the possible monopoly being established with USGA associations and PGA chapters, there will be limited opportunities outside of HS as well.

 

OK we won't go down the rabbit hole of education.  

 

I don't want to see the private tours go away either, but don't we also need to step back and think about this:  don't we want kids playing just for fun?  Golf is something you can play with your family, your friends, whatever, even if you aren't playing tournaments, unlike many sports.  Whether it's in tournaments or not, those kids playing is where growing the game would come from, IMHO.  Tournaments is a small portion I would think.

[golfortennis]

2 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Want to add, this is probably one of the best discussions the junior forums has had.  Very civil for once...  lol

 

 

Say the word, and we can fix that.

 

[Bizzle80]

I can't speak to Junior sporting levels dropping, golf or otherwise, but I would suggest that sports aren't just for kids to get into D1 programs. Sports at any junior level is really more about team building, socialization and confidence building than anything else. Its a small fraction of kids that will move on at each level up, but if kids are only playing sports because we think they need to get scholarships - thats on us as parents, not them as kids.

 

4 hours ago, golfortennis said:

don't we want kids playing just for fun?  Golf is something you can play with your family, your friends, whatever, even if you aren't playing tournaments, unlike many sports.  Whether it's in tournaments or not, those kids playing is where growing the game would come from, IMHO.  Tournaments is a small portion I would think.

 

100% agree here. Even with my kid playing golf, I constantly remind myself that the ultimate goal is for her to play with me as she grows up...anything beyond that is up to her.

 

Regardless, USGA is getting involved and I appreciate everyone's opinions, whether I agree or not. Personally I cant wait to see what they do...I think Mike Whan is a smart guy, who really looks to make positive changes, so hopefully he doesn't F this up too badly.

[Hawkeye77]

Edit:  will wait for the sky to stop falling to comment, but maybe this really is the worst thing to ever happen to junior golf? Seems that way here, trying to understand it.  

 

Edited March 1 by Hawkeye77

[tiger1873]

8 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Edit:  will wait for the sky to stop falling to comment, but maybe this really is the worst thing to ever happen to junior golf? Seems that way here, trying to understand it.  

 

 

I wouldn't call it the worst thing in the world. But a national program for junior golf will make the landscape very different.

 

Basically from what I understand from seeing other countries is tends to make Junior Golf tournaments less important.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but Today I see junior golf basically for all kids under 18.   The kids 16-18 play the biggest and best tournaments of their junior career.

 

If there is a national program the Age of junior golf effectively stops at 15 and by 12-13 you have a mad dash to   get your kid noticed. By the time the kids get 16-18   most of the junior tournaments will be basically glorified country club tournaments. There will be a few big tournament but there will be a few chosen to play them.

 

How I see this is people with younger kids who had early success will love a change where they basically get rewarded early.   However those of us with older kids have seen first hand how a 12-13 year golfer change and the ones you though would be winning at 16 are not even close.

 

Junior Golf goes though a lot changes at one time there big tournaments like Optimist you had to attend that now  is one a lot people avoid.  

 

I think we all know Junior Golf is basically in transition after Covid. I think it will be a year or two before anyone can really say what direction thing take.