For Sale Forum Trade Issue

[teeboi316]

Hello - I want to bring up an issue I am having with a fellow member Maddygirl 

 

We did a trade on here at the end of February. It was for a set of my S300 shafts which were in like new condition for Maddygirl set of Project X 6.0

 

Once received, I was very disapointed because there was no disclosure about the PX 6.0 shafts smelling like burnt chemicals or the tips have having punctured holes and corrosion. I have reached out multiple times to the member to try and just trade items back or work out something out but have not heard nothing for 10days now. 

 

What are my next steps to take? Also, i looked at the user's reputation and it was solid so i didn't hesistate to make a trade. Does anyone know this member mentioned in my trade?

 

 

 

 

His shafts PX 6.0

 

 

 

My S300

 

[RTP419]

Just an FYI- doesn’t look like he has been on since 2/27. Also i agree that the shafts he traded look questionable and should have been disclosed. 
 

Ryan

[blink3665]

The puncture holes are called 'dimpling' the shaft. Some OEMs did this as a way of centering the shaft and to help with epoxy adhesion. It's not punctures and it wont affect the characteristics of the shaft. The chemicals you smell is probably the burnt epoxy. I'm not sure that I see any corrosion. It looks like epoxy that is burnt and still stuck.

 

That being said, the previous owner should have had those tips cleaned up a bit, or should have let you know that they would need to be tip prepped. If there is true corrosion then you should trade back. If it's just epoxy, it's annoying, but you can clean it off yourself. If I were you, the cost of shipping shafts back would be more annoying than just prepping the tips on your own. But to each his own.

Edited March 9, 2023 by blink3665

[teeboi316]

Thank you for the replies and info 

 

blink3665 - I agree with what you mentioned. I looked up the reason for the puncture looking dents and it does say it’s an older style….which I wish was disclosed. I told the owner I would have held up on the trade. 
 

I do also wish I got some tyle of reply granted they haven’t logged in since 2/27. If every message reply sends an email notice they probably got about 5 notices. P

 

The other part that worries me is some of the metal was heated too much where the metal discolored along with the burnt epoxy smell. I don’t want my installs if I did use these to be all loose in the hosels. If acetone doesn’t clean it up and it requires light sanding the tips won’t be as strong 

 

End all I would just like a courtesy reply to try and resolve it from the original owner but wanted some opinions. Thanks guys 

[blink3665]

Don't worry about some light sanding on the tips. You'd do that anyway for tip prep. If the discoloration from the heat bothers you, you can always use some Blue Away. You can also use some low grit steel wool.

 

But I agree with the communication piece.

[zip7111]

I think you are making a bigger deal out if this than you need to.

 

I agree with what you mentioned. I looked up the reason for the puncture looking dents and it does say it’s an older style….which I wish was disclosed. I told the owner I would have held up on the trade. 

Why would you hold up on the trade?  The dimples have no affect on the performance of the shafts

 

The other part that worries me is some of the metal was heated too much where the metal discolored along with the burnt epoxy smell. I don’t want my installs if I did use these to be all loose in the hosels. If acetone doesn’t clean it up and it requires light sanding the tips won’t be as strong 

 

The tips need the glue sanded off them before installing.  This is a common and necessary practice.  You will not "weaken" the tips with a light sanding.   When you sand the tips, the burn discolorations will come off.

 

I am also wondering why you didn't ask for pictures before purchasing?  It seems as though you have VERY particular expectations, and this all could have been avoided if you asked for pictures ahead of time.

 

[Bad9]

53 minutes ago, zip7111 said:

I think you are making a bigger deal out if this than you need to.

 

I agree with what you mentioned. I looked up the reason for the puncture looking dents and it does say it’s an older style….which I wish was disclosed. I told the owner I would have held up on the trade. 

Why would you hold up on the trade?  The dimples have no affect on the performance of the shafts

 

The other part that worries me is some of the metal was heated too much where the metal discolored along with the burnt epoxy smell. I don’t want my installs if I did use these to be all loose in the hosels. If acetone doesn’t clean it up and it requires light sanding the tips won’t be as strong 

 

The tips need the glue sanded off them before installing.  This is a common and necessary practice.  You will not "weaken" the tips with a light sanding.   When you sand the tips, the burn discolorations will come off.

 

I am also wondering why you didn't ask for pictures before purchasing?  It seems as though you have VERY particular expectations, and this all could have been avoided if you asked for pictures ahead of time.

 

 

I get that someone may not know about dimpling of steel shafts as it hasn't been common practice for 15yrs but to think that the only cleanup required is with a wipe with acetone is just not understanding good practice. Granted I would have cleaned the tips before sending them but any used shafts I buy (which I generally don't anymore as I have about too much sketchy work here) I am going to clean the tips with sandpaper or an abrasive cloth regardless and then clean with acetone.

[Abh159]

2 hours ago, zip7111 said:

I am also wondering why you didn't ask for pictures before purchasing?  It seems as though you have VERY particular expectations, and this all could have been avoided if you asked for pictures ahead of time.

 

Have to agree with this. You can sort of see the tips in the pic you posted from the ad.

 

Probably would have been smart on your end to ask for a close up on those if you were worried or had concerns.

[Olde Maroon]

6 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Have to agree with this. You can sort of see the tips in the pic you posted from the ad.

 

Probably would have been smart on your end to ask for a close up on those if you were worried or had concerns.

This gets brought up in every single sale dispute. "Buyer should have known to ask for detailed pics of every angle of every part of the product" should not be the standard, IMO. 

 

It goes both ways. If you are selling, not including detailed pics of an area is tacit acknowledgement that there are no issues or pertinent details that need a picture in that area. I really don't like the idea that the onus is on the buyer to request photos of everything. If you are selling, take pictures of relevant stuff. Got a chip in the paint? Take a damn picture and post it. Tips are dimpled and require significant prep? Take a damn picture and post it. Be up front about what you are selling and let the potential buyer make an educated decision. 

 

In the short term, you might get a buyer who doesn't notice that chip/epoxy/dent and pays for the item. In the "not even long term", you get a disputed sale and negative feedback. 

[Anser3]

I am extremely particular about condition/descriptions of items (items are almost always nicer than I describe them), etc and expect everybody else to be the same.  The other seller should have disclosed that.  Perhaps you should have asked for some photos.  The other member is at fault for not disclosing this.  

[Flopper]

honestly wouldn't bother me if i can get it all covered. if anything pulling tip weights are more of a PITA for me lol

[Judge Smales]

This is why you always buy new shafts, never pulls. 

[teeboi316]

18 hours ago, Bad9 said:

 

I get that someone may not know about dimpling of steel shafts as it hasn't been common practice for 15yrs but to think that the only cleanup required is with a wipe with acetone is just not understanding good practice. Granted I would have cleaned the tips before sending them but any used shafts I buy (which I generally don't anymore as I have about too much sketchy work here) I am going to clean the tips with sandpaper or an abrasive cloth regardless and then clean with acetone.

 

That would be my other question. Is it possible these shafts I traded for are 12-15 years old? 
 

I was also asked what are my ferrule conditions on the s300’s, granted they are out a set of 620MB’s the shafts are pretty much new.

 

Maybe I should have asked for more pics but I looked at the members reputation and kinda felt like I would be okay working with a high reputation. I still have not heard back from the buyer that I traded with for the month of March. 
 

Does anyone know the member?

[teeboi316]

19 hours ago, zip7111 said:

 

 

The other part that worries me is some of the metal was heated too much where the metal discolored along with the burnt epoxy smell. I don’t want my installs if I did use these to be all loose in the hosels. If acetone doesn’t clean it up and it requires light sanding the tips won’t be as strong 

 

The tips need the glue sanded off them before installing.  This is a common and necessary practice.  You will not "weaken" the tips with a light sanding.   When you sand the tips, the burn discolorations will come off.

 

I am also wondering why you didn't ask for pictures before purchasing?  It seems as though you have VERY particular expectations, and this all could have been avoided if you asked for pictures ahead of time.

 

 

Yes - I should have asked for more pictures instead of trusting a reputation on this site. BUT I also did message the buyer I did the trade with multiple times to just ask for a trade back to resolve the issue and still have not heard back, that alone is terrible. All communication prior was sharp and responsive. When the box arrived I immediately sent messages and it’s been crickets. 

[Bad9]

5 hours ago, teeboi316 said:

 

That would be my other question. Is it possible these shafts I traded for are 12-15 years old? 
 

I was also asked what are my ferrule conditions on the s300’s, granted they are out a set of 620MB’s the shafts are pretty much new.

 

Maybe I should have asked for more pics but I looked at the members reputation and kinda felt like I would be okay working with a high reputation. I still have not heard back from the buyer that I traded with for the month of March. 
 

Does anyone know the member?

 

Asi I said I would have cleaned the tips before posting and if not posted a pic of the tips. That said there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the shafts to make them unusable, just a little standard cleanup is required.

[bladehunter]

Dimpling on the tips is very very common on tour van builds.  I have a set of Matt jones old blades and they had them. So does the set of pxg blades I had that were James hahns.  It’s a benefit. Not a bad thing.  
 

 

the discolor isn’t anything either. Just a over zealous torch user , normal tip prep will take it off.  You’d have to do that on ANY used shaft anyway . You can’t re glue without sanding.  Adhesion here is achieved by mechanical bond. Not chemical. Meaning tiny scratches with sand paper is how the epoxy grips.  It’s not chemically bonding to metal.  

Edited March 10, 2023 by bladehunter

[bladehunter]

11 hours ago, Judge Smales said:

This is why you always buy new shafts, never pulls. 

Yes. If you want new. Buy new. 

[Bad9]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

You can’t re glue without sanding. 

 

This. Steel or graphite.

[teeboi316]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:59 AM, Bad9 said:

 

This. Steel or graphite.

 They are steel

[teeboi316]

On 3/10/2023 at 7:51 AM, bladehunter said:

Yes. If you want new. Buy new. 

I don’t need new. Just want some disclosure or communication after the fact

 

no attempt to resolve. I asked for just a trade back no answer. Hell I’d even pay his shipping but either way, crickets after we both shipped 

[nsxguy]

On 3/8/2023 at 9:01 PM, teeboi316 said:

 If every message reply sends an email notice they probably got about 5 notices.

 

He may not have Messenger notifications set to "email".

[Nixhex524]

Those shafts are fine.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with them once they get cleaned up.  Seems like you both got what you wanted and what the trade was for....  New, used, whatever... you will always have to tip prep and clean them up.  From the pics you sent of yours, OP, it looks like Maddy would have to do the same.  I guess you could ask for better communication but maybe they just assumed you knew you'd be sanding and prepping anyway.  I'm not exactly sure what you were looking for here.