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USGA and R&A announce proposal to limit golf ball performance for elite level competition


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2 minutes ago, Pleasedwith3putts said:

There are plenty of balls that are proven to be longer than say a Pro V1 or other "players" balls in independent testing, it is not snake oil

Perhaps but they still pass the same test. It’s also likely the Velocity or other “distance” ball is really just longer at slow swing speeds than a ball they cannot compress.

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1 hour ago, gvogel said:

That is the present problem.  None of the balls that the better players use will pass the test after the new parameters are set.

 

The balls that might pass the test are soft balls that older players like to play, but are not played by faster swinging golfers.  At least, today.

 

1 hour ago, MattC555 said:

 

How do you know this?

 

While nobody "knows" this, it's pretty simple logic. 

 

The ball that a typical better player uses, and for this I'm going to just state that better players have higher swing speeds. I know this isn't universally true, but for "elite male" golfers, I'd say it's useful enough stereotype for this conversation. 

 

The manufacturers making balls for those players aren't going to engineer a ball that leaves distance on the table for those players. Despite the fact that there may be unique spin characteristics based on the needs of those players, they're going to do everything they can to bump JUST up against the current ODS while remaining conforming. 

 

Ball tests have shown that softer balls are slower. So of all the balls on the market today, it's most likely that those are going to be the balls that still pass the new ODS. 

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38 minutes ago, scotee said:

So I just watched Mike Whan of the USGA on Golf Today. He claims the rollback will affect amateur golfers 0-5 yards on driver and none on irons and other clubs.

 

Then it was reported that Keagan Bradley did some tests with roll back balls (where did he get those?) and had 40 and 50 yard reduction in driver distance.

 

Lucas Glover also did testing with Srixon/Cleveland of some modified balls and said his good drive went 240.

Don’t you think that in the next three years the Oem’s will develop some balls that will only harm Lukas and Keegan 15 to 20 yards?

 

if not, and it’s a lot more, they won’t implement the rule for 2028.  They have stated their objective.  If no one can meet the objective they will go back to the drawing board.

 

maybe Srixon gave Keegan and Lucas preliminary balls that were crap.

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27 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Do you really think the former prez of the USGA is going to have a tournament he runs create a driver size rule and just skip the official rules of golf?🤔

He might just do that in conjunction with the USGA implementing a MLR.

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16 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Perhaps but they still pass the same test. It’s also likely the Velocity or other “distance” ball is really just longer at slow swing speeds than a ball they cannot compress.

Agreed and that's my point. If distance is used as the arbiter for legal vs illegal, it follows that a ball like a TP1 which compromises a bit of distance for feel is likely to sit more comfortably within the current limits than some of the others that are more distance orientated and sit at the very limit. So you need to do less to keep a Pro V1 compliant in the rollback = less impact, it's like saying you are going to move the COR max back from .830 to .800, it will have a greater impact on those using a driver with a COR of .830 than someone already using .800 in an older driver because they find the older driver offers other advantages that are more important than leaving a little ball-speed on the table.

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20 minutes ago, gvogel said:

He might just do that in conjunction with the USGA implementing a MLR.

That he might…but your post I replied to did not suggest that.

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When the USGA says the average male will lose just 0-5 yards and the elite am will lose 7-9 yards I would bet it’s based on quality of contact. 
 

I’m going to make up numbers here so don’t bash the math….

if an amateur golfer swings his driver at 100 mph but misses the center by half an inch on virtually every drive he likely will lose little.  If an 80 mph player that centers it every drive carries it 200 now he will likely lose 5-10 yards.

 

Thoughts?

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This is another reason why pros will be switching over to LIV 

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3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

When the USGA says the average male will lose just 0-5 yards and the elite am will lose 7-9 yards I would bet it’s based on quality of contact. 
 

I’m going to make up numbers here so don’t bash the math….

if an amateur golfer swings his driver at 100 mph but misses the center by half an inch on virtually every drive he likely will lose little.  If an 80 mph player that centers it every drive carries it 200 now he will likely lose 5-10 yards.

 

Thoughts?

 

They'd have to use robots. If you give a 20 cap 25 shots w/ each ball you may end up w/ a lot of bad data because strike is so inconsistent. A nerfed ball could contain all his best swings. You can't get meaningful data w/o removing the quality of strike variable. I think the goal or concept is probably to knock 5% off the folks swing 120mph, 2.5% off those swinging 100 mph, 0.0% off those swing 80 mph. 

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10 minutes ago, Tiptx1122 said:

This is another reason why pros will be switching over to LIV 

🤣

 

Perhaps you're behind, it's no longer in MLR strictly for the pros. Their chopping the ball for everyone. Unless Yassir wants to fund a rogue Titleist plant in King Abdullah Economic City they'll be playing the same balls we all do. 

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3 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

🤣

 

Perhaps you're behind, it's no longer in MLR strictly for the pros. Their chopping the ball for everyone. Unless Yassir wants to fund a rogue Titleist plant in King Abdullah Economic City they'll be playing the same balls we all do. 

Nah, they’ve got enough cash to just buy Titleist and keep using the old models.

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4 hours ago, Shilgy said:

When the USGA says the average male will lose just 0-5 yards and the elite am will lose 7-9 yards I would bet it’s based on quality of contact. 
 

I’m going to make up numbers here so don’t bash the math….

if an amateur golfer swings his driver at 100 mph but misses the center by half an inch on virtually every drive he likely will lose little.  If an 80 mph player that centers it every drive carries it 200 now he will likely lose 5-10 yards.

 

Thoughts?

Agree with the premise here,

But unfortunately, I believe the yardage loss is greater, closer at 10 to 15 yards, and that is across all clubs. But, we have to wait and see. Also did see, that the Driver, may get a serious look at a reduction , seen that info today.

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4 hours ago, Shilgy said:

When the USGA says the average male will lose just 0-5 yards and the elite am will lose 7-9 yards I would bet it’s based on quality of contact. 
 

I’m going to make up numbers here so don’t bash the math….

if an amateur golfer swings his driver at 100 mph but misses the center by half an inch on virtually every drive he likely will lose little.  If an 80 mph player that centers it every drive carries it 200 now he will likely lose 5-10 yards.

 

Thoughts?

 

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6 hours ago, MattC555 said:

 

How do you know this?

 

I have not seen a list of which current balls will pass, but I ran across an article that said one of them is the Pinnacle Soft.  So those are the kinds of balls.

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8 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Hi Bob,

 

I made the comment in public so I need to apologize in pubic.  I'm sorry I made that post.  I've been quite riled up over the rollback and it spilled over into making a public comment directed at you.  I appreciate your comments, experience, and participation in the forum. 

Thank you for the graciousness (really). We're totally good. Hell, my secretary commonly insults me and calls me an idiot a half dozen times before the markets open every morning. And I dearly love her for that - especially because every now and then she's actually right and causes me to think. As did you - I do tend to go on and on sometimes, so the notion of doing brief summaries gave me pause and had me consider something that hadn't occurred to me. Might make for more effective communications. 

 

And BTW, one of the things I love most about WRX is that there's people that do get really worked up about things like USGA rules changes. Most of the people I talk to on a daily basis (in normal life) - even casual golfers - wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about if I started going on about Iron Byron. Conversations with fanatic golfers are - to me - always refreshing even if they have dramatically different views. 

 

So yeah, tip 'o the hat to ya dude. 🏌️‍♀️

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9 hours ago, wfrogge1 said:

 

Velocity is slower off the driver 

OK in this one manual test it was but the point I was making is there are plenty of robot tests (so removing human error) which shows balls like Pro V1 are NOT the longest out there. MGS for instance saw the left dash Pro V1x go 19 yards further than TP5 with a driver, so a left dash user must surely be facing a bigger consequence under rollback than a TP5 user?

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My big issue is that the USGA ignored their own survey data collected from golfers. They relied on a handfull of architects, courses and companies yet forgot that they represent the golfing public. To say the USGA has lost their way would be an understatement, but like anything, those with the most money and influence win and this has always be true from the USGA. This isn't new info.

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10 hours ago, Chopper Dave said:

Looking forward to such hits as the:

Titleist Semi-Pro V1

Titieist No V1 (avx replacement)

Callaway Burnished Soft

Bridgestone Muni B

Srixon Kevin James

TaylorMade TP 5? No. 4? No. 3? Keep going…2?  that’s better

 

 

TP5 gotta be already conforming.  I think TM unwittingly made the new ball, lol.

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20 hours ago, Pleasedwith3putts said:

But if the fundamental determinant threshold is distance, surely a number of the balls the better players are using are already well within the parameters, so a roll-back is going to effect the "distance" balls more than those geared to control. So won't say a Titleist Velocity have to be throttled back far more than a Pro V1 and yet which pros play a Velocity?

 

This is a very good observation.

 

When I think of rolling back distance I automatically (and lazily) think it would apply to every ball.

 

But it the TopFlite Ultra Turbo Screamer® is at the edge of the current limit, the ProV1 probably isn't pushing those limits and may be fine.

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19 hours ago, scotee said:

So I just watched Mike Whan of the USGA on Golf Today. He claims the rollback will affect amateur golfers 0-5 yards on driver and none on irons and other clubs.

 

Then it was reported that Keagan Bradley did some tests with roll back balls (where did he get those?) and had 40 and 50 yard reduction in driver distance.

 

Lucas Glover also did testing with Srixon/Cleveland of some modified balls and said his good drive went 240.

 

This would be pre-1980 driving average. Probably somewhere in the '70s.

 

I have a hard time believing the new ball will take 40 yards off a drive.

 

If it does that to a pro, then my drives will all be less than 200 yards, and current courses that I play (even from the white tees) will be unplayable.

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OK...last thought for now:

 

Why a rollback? I get that they want to protect golf courses and make it reasonable land-use-wise to build new ones.

 

So why not just cap everything as it exists today? Freeze the specs on the ball and equipment at the current level.

 

The courses have already been built and the ones on the drawing board are accounting for current (or more) distance.

 

Rolling it back might bring a few 'old gem' courses back into play, but that's hardly a good reason.

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44 minutes ago, maamold said:

You all will be fine, bottom line is your scores probably won't change. It's your ego that will be bruised.

 

 

 

Again, regardless of why people don't want a roll back (which is most of the golfer population), the change doesn't fix anything you or other roll back enthusiasts want.  So WHY do it if you aren't going to do it right or even make noticeable impact?

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