USGA and R&A announce proposal to limit golf ball performance for elite level competition

[Hawkeye77]

If anyone wants to read the actual document . . . .

 

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2023/Notice-Proposed-MLR-Golf-Balls-Final.pdf

[TLUBulldogGolf]

6 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

So… don’t change much - just make sure the landing area is soaking wet so it plugs… then you have to allow lift clean and place… how can it go wrong

 

edit to add - the test is on carry alone… so nothing to change then?… makes you wonder how the guys carry it 310 with 180ish ball speed

 

Flightscope optimizer always seemed a touch low vs real world to me. Brandon Mathews plays around 190 and his longest carry is over 340, though probably in favorable conditions.

[ronsc1985]

If you want to cut down on the distance then just limit the size of tour heads to 160 or so cc and clubhead length to 43 or so inches.  That eliminates spring effect on off center hits  and if you want to swing out of your shoes you will have to hit it in the middle of the face or be far into the weeds and/or very short..

 

This is simply the same as clubs heads were before the era of oversized metal woods.

 

 

[riddyl]

The key is how do they intend to do it? Because if they've just made the ball spinnier then everyone is going to go to 4 degree drivers and hit 10 up. Then your 7i approach is going to spin like your 9i does now, so it holds the green more easily, with the nett effect being even lower scores for bombers. 

[gvogel]

2 minutes ago, ronsc1985 said:

If you want to cut down on the distance then just limit the size of tour heads to 160 or so cc and clubhead length to 43 or so inches.  That eliminates spring effect on off center hits  and if you want to swing out of your shoes you will have to hit it in the middle of the face or be far into the weeds and/or very short..

 

This is simply the same as clubs heads were before the era of oversized metal woods.

 

 

I am in favor of this, but the rest of the folks on this site would go apoplectic. 

 

It is a good first step.

[gvogel]

3 minutes ago, riddyl said:

The key is how do they intend to do it? Because if they've just made the ball spinnier then everyone is going to go to 4 degree drivers and hit 10 up. Then your 7i approach is going to spin like your 9i does now, so it holds the green more easily, with the nett effect being even lower scores for bombers. 

Because it is so easy to control a 4* driver... Ask Bryson how that experiment is working.

[phil75070]

Since this will be a Model Local Rule, not mandatory, I think the tours should give the middle finger to the USGA and R&A and not adopt it.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

10 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

If anyone wants to read the actual document . . . .

 

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2023/Notice-Proposed-MLR-Golf-Balls-Final.pdf

 

So they abandoned a change to the driver for the time being. I just don't see this really doing enough, but it does sound like they have the manufacturers on board. 

[So_Cal]

1 hour ago, nikeblades00 said:

This is dumb especially for golfers living in cold weather places. Half the year were playing golf in 50 and 60 degree Temps. Were losing enough distance during those months. Here's an idea let the pros play Oakland Hills in October or April, I guarantee you there will be no talk of bifurcation. 

I agree with you on seasonality.  Cold weather is brutal.  Played OH last year from the member tips and it was a beast.  Still I had wedge into 1&4 and 9 iron into 5 for example.  Modern equipment is just so good, and I’m not a long player relative to my peers.  

[idrive]

4 minutes ago, ronsc1985 said:

If you want to cut down on the distance then just limit the size of tour heads to 160 or so cc and clubhead length to 43 or so inches.  That eliminates spring effect on off center hits  and if you want to swing out of your shoes you will have to hit it in the middle of the face or be far into the weeds and/or very short..

 

This is simply the same as clubs heads were before the era of oversized metal woods.

 

 

 

Haven't read the last few pages so don't know if this has been mentioned.

 

Why not just have a "Pro Only" driver - FW's.  Reduce the COR so the ball flight distance is reduced to whatever # they're trying to achieve?

 

Learning the distances of two different balls is just silly. IMO

 

Question - who's going to make the ball? Can't possibly be in the best interest of every golf ball mfg. to make a tour ball. There's no way they would sell enough of them to make it worth their while.

[So_Cal]

1 hour ago, ChipStrokes said:

i love the mythical characters that pop up in these distance threads. 

 

Rory McIlroy’s stock yardages 

Driver: 320 yards
3-wood: 297 yards*
5-wood: 275 yards
3-iron: 255 yards*
4-iron: 240 yards
5-iron: 225 yards*
6-iron: 210 yards
7-iron: 195 yards*
8-iron: 180 yards
9-iron: 165 yards*
46° pitching wedge: 150 yards
54° sand wedge: 125 yards*
58° lob wedge: 105 yards

 

so you play with “a few guys” who drive it 60 yards further than rory does, and then hit a gap wedge the same distance as he hits his 9i. and do both well enough to be on the green in two?

 

makes you wonder why they’re playing with you and not with rory. 

Well they were good enough to qualify for the USGA 4 ball.  On another 550 par 5 he hit 4 iron 4 iron.  

[Ferguson]

33 minutes ago, Mike412 said:

It’s funny how many people are suggesting redesigning almost 200 acres of land per course vs reducing distance by 20 yds.

You got that right, Mike.  The ball makers could have dialed-back balls on shelves in 12-16 weeks. 

 

 

 

[bcflyguy1]

Hey USGA and R&A...

[ChipStrokes]

5 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

Well they were good enough to qualify for the USGA 4 ball.  On another 550 par 5 he hit 4 iron 4 iron.  

[One Putter]

4 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

You got that right, Mike.  The ball makers could have dialed-back balls on shelves in 12-16 weeks. 

 

 

 

Or you could just set the courses up to play harder and faster with longer rough. The distance crybabies don't seem to realize that the shorter hitters will always be behind the longer hitters no matter what the specs of the golf ball are. This is stupid.

[physasst]

13 hours ago, Canyonaro said:

 

Or just not bikini waxing the fairways. The rollout on drives is bananas at a lot of your events. Maybe the fairway shouldn't roll six or seven on the stimp?

THIS...Walking the 3M open last year and the fairways were cut tighter than some greens I've played on....

 

M

[MattC555]

This is the proposed local rule:

 

"Specifically, for this proposed MLR, golf balls will be tested for conformance to the Overall Distance Standard (ODS) limit of 317 yards (plus 3 yards tolerance) at modified Actual Launch Conditions (ALC), namely a clubhead speed of 127 mph and ALC values of 11 degrees and 37 revolutions per second (2220 rpm)."

 

I don't see this having a great enough effect to warrant usage.  As was said already, I think players will adapt to this ball and virtually negate any supposed benefits.  Just seems like a giant headache for elite amateurs, a negative for manufacturers, and a possible hindrance to those who were borderline short before.     

[wildcatden]

Start by not rolling out the fairways to airport tarmac standards. When preparing the rough, raise the mower by 3/4".

[Ferguson]

Just now, One Putter said:

Or you could just set the courses up to play harder and faster with longer rough. The distance crybabies don't seem to realize that the shorter hitters will always be behind the longer hitters no matter what the specs of the golf ball are. This is stupid.

 

I believe your approach is valid but it alters the design's original character.  Don't get me wrong, I am all for removing damaged trees and moving dirt for better drainage, but change the course to deal with distance?  No. 

 

 

[dmecca2]

Can't help but feel like the old guys at the USGA are feeling pressure from their old friends at courses in Philly/NY/Long Island that feel like their course could become obsolete if the game got longer since they have no room to expand. I wonder if any of them even play the tips.

[snagy2000]

24 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

I agree with you on seasonality.  Cold weather is brutal.  Played OH last year from the member tips and it was a beast.  Still I had wedge into 1&4 and 9 iron into 5 for example.  Modern equipment is just so good, and I’m not a long player relative to my peers.  

Man, I bet that was no fun! I mean nothing beats the fun of hitting 4i - 6i into greens, missing them and trying to get up and down to save par, but walking away with a bogey...

[TLUBulldogGolf]

3 minutes ago, snagy2000 said:

Man, I bet that was no fun! I mean nothing beats the fun of hitting 4i - 6i into greens, missing them and trying to get up and down to save par, but walking away with a bogey...

 

Move up a set then..

 

Most people in this thread won't even have to think about the new ball unless they just want to so I don't really get the reaction. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by TLUBulldogGolf

[caniac6]

According to the ruling bodies, this won’t affect the recreational golfer, so I really don’t understand the outrage. I have no control what these knuckleheads decide. The game is extremely strong at the club level. I just hope they are not stupid enough to screw it up at that level.

[Mike412]

19 minutes ago, One Putter said:

Or you could just set the courses up to play harder and faster with longer rough. The distance crybabies don't seem to realize that the shorter hitters will always be behind the longer hitters no matter what the specs of the golf ball are. This is stupid.

I would be classified as a “distance crybaby” yet I’ve posted numerous times that the faster players will still be longer than slower players…..

 

That’s why I don’t see a problem with rolling back the ball. 

[Mike412]

50 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

If the viewer wanted to see touring pros hit their driver 275 yards off the tee, they'd simply turn on "Shell's Wonderful World Of Golf."

Disagree. I want to see the players play a full bag of clubs. If all I cared about is distance I’d turn on a long drive competition. 

[snagy2000]

6 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

Move up a set then..

 

Most people in this thread won't even have to think about the new ball unless they just want to so I don't really get the reaction. 

Exactly, I was being sarcastic!

[Retrop1]

15 hours ago, golfinbrad said:

This should be interesting.  Strictly making a ball go shorter will really penalize the shorter players.  Bring back the high spinning balata.  

Yes, all things being equal. I have heard (not confirmed nor am I a scientist so don't hate on me) that there are some interesting things they can do with compression that will not penalize the shorter hitters as much as the longer ones, but then you get into the whole debate of the longer guys deserve to be rewarded for the skills and hard work. I trust the scientists can work it out so that each player is "slowed down" the same percentage, but I do not trust the governing bodies to properly execute this.

 

Also, once it is done, the entire golf ball manufacturing industry could have a major beef as they have marketed and sold a whole bunch of golf balls based on what is used on tour. I could see potential litigation dragging this out for a while unless the ball manufacturers are included in the process the whole way. If you use Titleist as an example, their entire brand identity is geared toward better players and the centerpiece for that identity is the Pro V1 and Pro V1x. If a given number of players only buy Titleist ProV1 because it is what the tour players play, and then they cannot get the same ball, it could potentially create a significant shift in market share which could in turn open up a very costly can of worms. 

 

It will all be very interesting to see how it plays out and hopefully the governing bodies dont handle it poorly. 

[mat562]

'I'm off 23 and I drive it 200 yards - or 'about 250', as I call it. How dare they deny me the chance to hit it 350? I'm outraged.'

[nosedive32]

15 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

According to the ruling bodies, this won’t affect the recreational golfer, so I really don’t understand the outrage.

 

They say this but there is obviously going to be a trickle effect on the average golfer. OEMs will have to put money into R&D to design elite competition balls. I highly doubt that will be in addition to their current budget on balls for the masses.

 

This means less progress and innovation for the average golfer. Best case is likely ball technology for everyone else becomes stagnant moving forward.

 

In the hypothetical they remove the initial velocity test as discussed to benefit amateurs there may actually be some benefit, but I'm skeptical any company not named Callaway (because of non traditional golf revenue such as top golf) would pour the required money into R&D f=to take advantage of that.

[gaffs]

3 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

According to the ruling bodies, this won’t affect the recreational golfer, so I really don’t understand the outrage. I have no control what these knuckleheads decide. The game is extremely strong at the club level. I just hope they are not stupid enough to screw it up at that level.

 

Exactly. Everyone getting butt hurt because the rules changes for the elite tour players.

 

Imagine other elite level pro sports not having a standard, or limited ball. Imagine the Yankees being able to pitch with a ball that is faster than everyone else has.