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Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2023 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play


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4 hours ago, jholz said:

Vik's my boy. Let's get them i210's back in the winner's circle, young man!

Was he in i230’s? Seems like those folks have gone back to i210’s and i59 players are back with iBlades or s55’s. 

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13 hours ago, Ben Berube said:

Was he in i230’s? Seems like those folks have gone back to i210’s and i59 players are back with iBlades or s55’s. 

 

To the best of my knowledge, Hovland never put the i230's in the bag. Might have tested them, but the i210's have been consistently in play to the best of my knowledge.

 

Similar to the iBlades and S55s persisting - outside of the Blueprints, I'm not sure Ping has produced a real timeless "winner" is several club cycles.

 

They are chasing the market a bit too much these days, IMHO.

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5 hours ago, jholz said:

 

To the best of my knowledge, Hovland never put the i230's in the bag. Might have tested them, but the i210's have been consistently in play to the best of my knowledge.

 

Similar to the iBlades and S55s persisting - outside of the Blueprints, I'm not sure Ping has produced a real timeless "winner" is several club cycles.

 

They are chasing the market a bit too much these days, IMHO.

 

And from what I remember seeing on his i210's they had some special grinds etc on them, so maybe they just don't have the i230's built to his preferences yet?  And some people love what works, and his stuff seems to work pretty well!

 

I will also just add I've had more people tell me they think the i230 is the best iron Ping has ever made (while good ams, not pros), so I'm sure its nothing wrong with the clubs themselves.

Edited by J_Tizzle
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12 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

 


Hovland is one of those guys that I could see staying put with the i210 for awhile given his delivery. He has that professional over the top/trap kind of delivery ala Sam Snead that means he probably likes the really high CG of the i210's in terms of strike location tendencies. Face wear on his irons would likely show he's around 1/2 to 1 groove higher than most and if the i230's are lower CG (need Maltby data updates to confirm) then they'd likely not be as good a fit. 

 

Yeah that vertical COG issue is one of the things that make the i210s special. Would love to talk with the engineer whose idea it was. 

 

Amazing performers - but they want to be hit a certain way. If I'm swinging like Snead to get them to work, I suppose there are a lot worse examples to follow. But, it's a strike pattern that doesn't gel with everyone.

 

Having said that, it's impossible to deny that Ping has had some troubles getting new iron designs into Tour bags.

 

The i230 may be the one recent exception to that rule.

 

 

Edited by jholz
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59 minutes ago, jholz said:

 

Yeah that vertical COG issue is one of the things that make the i210s special. Would love to talk with the engineer whose idea it was. 

 

Amazing performers - but they want to be hit a certain way. If I'm swinging like Snead to get them to work, I suppose there are a lot worse examples to follow. But, it's a strike pattern that doesn't gel with everyone.

 

Having said that, it's impossible to deny that Ping has had some troubles getting new iron designs into Tour bags.

 

The i230 may be the one recent exception to that rule.

 

 


It's that steeper, driving delivery with lots of forward shaft lean and delofting that lends itself to higher CGs since said delivery will always favor the higher part of the face. The i210s are definitely not the best for pickers, hah. I wrote some long thing somewhere about PING's design philosophy and how their *extreme* perimeter weighting approach (tungsten in the low toe and up in the hosel) creates both very high MOI but also raises CG, so IMO the i210 was "MOI first, CG second" in terms of design priority with the i230 likely paying more attention to the CG this time around. That high CG of the i210 however will work better for certain players, and I think Hovland is one of them.

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6 hours ago, Valtiel said:


It's that steeper, driving delivery with lots of forward shaft lean and delofting that lends itself to higher CGs since said delivery will always favor the higher part of the face. The i210s are definitely not the best for pickers, hah. I wrote some long thing somewhere about PING's design philosophy and how their *extreme* perimeter weighting approach (tungsten in the low toe and up in the hosel) creates both very high MOI but also raises CG, so IMO the i210 was "MOI first, CG second" in terms of design priority with the i230 likely paying more attention to the CG this time around. That high CG of the i210 however will work better for certain players, and I think Hovland is one of them.

Let me get this straight.  Ping's extreme perimeter weighting allows for high MOI which means more forgiveness.  In the meanwhile, it also raises VCOG therefore favors the steeper swing? 

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2 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

Let me get this straight.  Ping's extreme perimeter weighting allows for high MOI which means more forgiveness.  In the meanwhile, it also raises VCOG therefore favors the steeper swing? 


Generally speaking, yeah. Titleist for example puts the tungsten in the heel and the toe, less extreme from a perimeter standpoint but keeps the CG way down. Ping pushes it further into the toe and way up into the hosel which is further apart, therefore higher MOI, but that hosel tungsten sits quite high, thus raising CG. A higher sweetspot demands a delivery that produces higher strikes for the best fit, and the guys that lean the handle a ton fit into that category and also tend to be steeper as well, though not necessarily (think DJ). 

If you look at the guys that really bear down on the ball like Sergio, Noren, Hovland etc, they've all stuck with mid/high or even higher CG designs. 

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2 hours ago, Valtiel said:


Generally speaking, yeah. Titleist for example puts the tungsten in the heel and the toe, less extreme from a perimeter standpoint but keeps the CG way down. Ping pushes it further into the toe and way up into the hosel which is further apart, therefore higher MOI, but that hosel tungsten sits quite high, thus raising CG. A higher sweetspot demands a delivery that produces higher strikes for the best fit, and the guys that lean the handle a ton fit into that category and also tend to be steeper as well, though not necessarily (think DJ). 

If you look at the guys that really bear down on the ball like Sergio, Noren, Hovland etc, they've all stuck with mid/high or even higher CG designs. 

I take bigger divots now and my iron swing is steeper than it ever has been in the past.  Therefore, I should probably be looking into something like Ping irons for my next set then.  I'm happy with the set of irons I have now as my distance control has gotten better with them.  However, these are non traditional blades that are longer from heel to toe and have more offset.  Do you know if blades tend to be more biased CG wise higher or lower on the face?  

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Anyone know where he is with the bounce on these irons? He had a set with the numbers ground off the bottom and this WITB shows a level looking 8 iron? I think Ping used to offer iron grinding options but maybe they've stopped? I love my i210's but they do feel bouncy at times. 

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On 3/22/2023 at 12:14 PM, chilidip68 said:

Anyone know where he is with the bounce on these irons? He had a set with the numbers ground off the bottom and this WITB shows a level looking 8 iron? I think Ping used to offer iron grinding options but maybe they've stopped? I love my i210's but they do feel bouncy at times. 

I’m no expert but I don’t think he stuck with the special grind ones for very long.  I believe he has for the most part stuck with fairly stock heads.

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On 3/23/2023 at 2:17 PM, jomatty said:

I’m no expert but I don’t think he stuck with the special grind ones for very long.  I believe he has for the most part stuck with fairly stock heads.

That's what it looks like. They are pretty damn good clubs. I miss blades but I can't keep up with the younger guys I play with without these. They're hitting long irons as well and they're 15-10 years younger than me! Best mix of feel and control with distance I've found. Also, Ping. 

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On 3/21/2023 at 2:16 PM, Valtiel said:

 


Hovland is one of those guys that I could see staying put with the i210 for awhile given his delivery. He has that professional over the top/trap kind of delivery ala Sam Snead that means he probably likes the really high CG of the i210's in terms of strike location tendencies. Face wear on his irons would likely show he's around 1/2 to 1 groove higher than most and if the i230's are lower CG (need Maltby data updates to confirm) then they'd likely not be as good a fit. 


Preliminary MPF numbers are out on the I230.  Looks to be pretty close to the I210.  I230 VCOG is slightly lower, MOI is a bit higher, C-DIM a hair more toward the toe, and RCOG is slightly deeper.  Typical Ping making incremental improvements.  Amazing thing is they made all these improvements in a slightly more compact package.

 

“Update:  Ping i230 MPF came out to be 393 MPF, which is in the Classic category.  The Actual Vertical CG is .898″, which is high and that is what hurt the rating.  The #6 iron has 8 degrees of bounce, which negatively effects the vertical cg.  The MOI was really good at above 15.398 and the C-dim wasn’t too bad at 1.348.  Rearward cg location is .484″, which is average.  Again, the vertical cg is the reason for the Classic category rating.

Britt Lindsey”

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On 3/22/2023 at 6:15 AM, Valtiel said:


Generally speaking, yeah. Titleist for example puts the tungsten in the heel and the toe, less extreme from a perimeter standpoint but keeps the CG way down. Ping pushes it further into the toe and way up into the hosel which is further apart, therefore higher MOI, but that hosel tungsten sits quite high, thus raising CG. A higher sweetspot demands a delivery that produces higher strikes for the best fit, and the guys that lean the handle a ton fit into that category and also tend to be steeper as well, though not necessarily (think DJ). 

If you look at the guys that really bear down on the ball like Sergio, Noren, Hovland etc, they've all stuck with mid/high or even higher CG designs. 

I found them to hit very, very high shots. Sounds like they should hit a little lower if that’s the case?

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2 hours ago, gticlay said:

I found them to hit very, very high shots. Sounds like they should hit a little lower if that’s the case?


Vertical CG isn’t going to have much impact on trajectory. Higher CG means higher potential spin on average since “low” strikes are going to spin up more. They also have a decent amount of offset which means a deeper CG related to the shaft axis which raises launch by increasing dynamic loft via forward shaft deflection (a whole different can of worms). Regardless, vertical CG is more about strike efficiency and spin than it is launch. 

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On 3/26/2023 at 5:10 AM, Valtiel said:


Vertical CG isn’t going to have much impact on trajectory. Higher CG means higher potential spin on average since “low” strikes are going to spin up more. They also have a decent amount of offset which means a deeper CG related to the shaft axis which raises launch by increasing dynamic loft via forward shaft deflection (a whole different can of worms). Regardless, vertical CG is more about strike efficiency and spin than it is launch. 

 

So if I went and hit a group of balls to get an average of spin, what would be considered normal or ideal for the i210? Seems like I get a high trajectory, but I don't know how much spin as I've not really hit like 20 8 irons to get an average.

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23 minutes ago, gticlay said:

 

So if I went and hit a group of balls to get an average of spin, what would be considered normal or ideal for the i210? Seems like I get a high trajectory, but I don't know how much spin as I've not really hit like 20 8 irons to get an average.


Ideal ranges shift based on speed and delivery. There is a combination of launch, spin, and peak height that is considered ideal for each club based on your swing speed, so we'd need to know all those numbers to say what is ideal/normal/abnormal. But for an 8-iron at 37* I expect anywhere between 7,000-8,000rpm would be a "normal" range. 

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On 3/25/2023 at 11:10 PM, Valtiel said:


Vertical CG isn’t going to have much impact on trajectory. Higher CG means higher potential spin on average since “low” strikes are going to spin up more. They also have a decent amount of offset which means a deeper CG related to the shaft axis which raises launch by increasing dynamic loft via forward shaft deflection (a whole different can of worms). Regardless, vertical CG is more about strike efficiency and spin than it is launch. 

This is very interesting and a great nugget. Thanks for sharing. I struggle with low launch due to low dynamic loft and I’ve been keen to try the i230s. This makes a lot of sense as to why/how they might be a good fit for me. Not a magic bullet, but sounds like a good fit conceptually.  

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1 hour ago, ScottHutch2 said:

This is very interesting and a great nugget. Thanks for sharing. I struggle with low launch due to low dynamic loft and I’ve been keen to try the i230s. This makes a lot of sense as to why/how they might be a good fit for me. Not a magic bullet, but sounds like a good fit conceptually.  


At the end of the day there is no substitute for weaker lofts if you're a low dynamic loft kind of player. DJ plays a 10.5* - 11.0* driver for a reason, and if he were a WRX'er he'd be told he's leaving tons of distance on the table with his speed. 😆

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      Manuel Elivra - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Ian Gilligan - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Fabrizio Zanotti - WITB - 2024 Barracuda Championship
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      TaylorMade putter covers - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Camilo Villegas' custom Cameron putter - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Cameron putters - 2024 Barracuda Championship
      Oliver Wilson's 1 off Odyssey putter - 2024 Barracuda Championship
       
       
       
       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 19 replies
    • 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT) - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT) - Tuesday #1
      2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue - Wednesday #1
      2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue - Wednesday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Michael Johnson - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Thomas Walsh - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Chris Petefish - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Tag Ridings - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Austin Greaser - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Emilio Gonzalez - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Davis Lamb - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Brenden Jelley - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      Dillion Board - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue (KFT)
      John Augenstein - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Yi Cao - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Kris Ventura - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Mark Goetz - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Nelson Ledesma - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Morgan Hoffmann - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      Tanner Gore - WITB - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ryan Gerard's custom & 1 off Cameron putters - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
      L.A.B. Golf custom Mezz 1 - 2024 The Ascendant presented by Blue
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 7 replies
    • 2024 ISCO Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 ISCO Championship - Monday #1
      2024 ISCO Championship - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      James Nicholas - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Marcus Kinhult - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Adrien Saddier - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Stephen Stallings, Jr. - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Espen Kofstad - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Daniel Iceman - Kentucky PGA Section Champ - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Cooper Musselman - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Alex Goff - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Angel Hidalgo - WITB - 2024 ISCO Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Kevin Streelman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 ISCO Championship
      Cameron putter - 2024 ISCO Championship
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 3 replies
    • 2024 John Deere Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 John Deere Classic - Monday #1
      2024 John Deere Classic - Monday #2
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #1
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #2
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #3
      2024 John Deere Classic - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Jason Day - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Josh Teater - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Michael Thorbjornsen - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Austin Smotherman - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Joseph Bramlett - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      C.T. Pan - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Anders Albertson - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Seung Yul Noh - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Blake Hathcoat - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Jimmy Stanger - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Cole Sherwood - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Anders Larson - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Bill Haas - WITB - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Tommy "2 Gloves" Gainey WITB – 2024 John Deere Classic
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Garrick Higgo - 2 Aretera shafts in the bag - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Jhonattan Vegas' custom Cameron putter - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putter - 2024 John Deere Classic
      2 new Super Stroke Marvel comics grips - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Swag blade putter - 2024 John Deere Classic
      Swag Golf - Joe Dirt covers - 2024 John Deere Classic
       
       
       
       
       
      • 3 replies

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