longer shaft and lighter head in driver, whats your experience?

[Davidv]

1 hour ago, mizunotpz said:

Wow interesting. What shaft and grip you use to get it as low as 253?

Atlas 30R shaft and Callaway Grip both standard from Callaway as is the total weight.

[Phebus]

Titleist TSr1 has a longer shaft with a lighter head. 

[nkurz]

55 minutes ago, mizunotpz said:

But I wonder if many golfers gets less distance (talking normal golf swing speed now) with Ping drivers cause their heads are heavier than say a Cobra head.

 

The usual "science" answer is that lighter heads have a slight theoretical advantage (down to about 150 g), but that actual performance is very flat against a wide range of driver weights.  We often consider 1.50 to be a maximum Smash Factor, but this is just for a standard weight driver.  If you can swing a heavier driver at the same speed, you'll have a higher maximum Smash, and hence get a slight boost in distance.  And if the speed is only slightly slower, they'll be the same.  

 

I presume your experience with hitting the heavier Ping shorter is true, but I'd wonder if this is for some reason other than just the weight.  Driver lofts are often off from what they are marked as, weight distribution might be affecting spin, and unless it's the exact shaft swapped between the drivers different bend profiles can affect loft.  Maybe the issue is even just that the heavier head bends the shaft more, adding loft.

 

1 hour ago, PowderedToastMan said:

Not everyone will have the same result though, probably a small percentage actually. I think swing dynamics drive who can play consistent golf with a long driver. 

 

I do wonder what the specific difference is between golfers who adjust quickly to a longer shaft and those who do not.  It seems likely that people who prefer to swing at a steeper angle might have more trouble with longer length clubs.  Maybe people who start with baseball (or cricket?) are better at adjusting to hitting the ball at varying angles?  It does seem like there is a divergence between people who adjust quickly to the length and those who would need to rebuild their entire swing.  

[NRJyzr]

21 minutes ago, nkurz said:

I do wonder what the specific difference is between golfers who adjust quickly to a longer shaft and those who do not.  It seems likely that people who prefer to swing at a steeper angle might have more trouble with longer length clubs.  Maybe people who start with baseball (or cricket?) are better at adjusting to hitting the ball at varying angles?  It does seem like there is a divergence between people who adjust quickly to the length and those who would need to rebuild their entire swing.  

 

FWIW, I am a former baseball player, and as I've mentioned above a couple times, have trouble hitting longer driver club lengths.  

 

[mizunotpz]

45 minutes ago, nkurz said:

 

The usual "science" answer is that lighter heads have a slight theoretical advantage (down to about 150 g), but that actual performance is very flat against a wide range of driver weights.  We often consider 1.50 to be a maximum Smash Factor, but this is just for a standard weight driver.  If you can swing a heavier driver at the same speed, you'll have a higher maximum Smash, and hence get a slight boost in distance.  And if the speed is only slightly slower, they'll be the same.  

 

I presume your experience with hitting the heavier Ping shorter is true, but I'd wonder if this is for some reason other than just the weight.  Driver lofts are often off from what they are marked as, weight distribution might be affecting spin, and unless it's the exact shaft swapped between the drivers different bend profiles can affect loft.  Maybe the issue is even just that the heavier head bends the shaft more, adding loft.

Yes I did notice my Ping head launched higher. Next time we practise together I can try to loft down my Ping and see if the ten yards are still there. Didnt just hit one shot, but 20 of each and the same result was there. My Ping feels much better though.

[nkurz]

37 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

FWIW, I am a former baseball player, and as I've mentioned above a couple times, have trouble hitting longer driver club lengths. 

 

Well, that would seem to ruin that part of my theory!   Any other ideas?  It does seem like there should be some way of predicting the divergence ahead of time.  I don't think "smooth" versus "non-smooth" is enough, but maybe it is.  

[PowderedToastMan]

16 minutes ago, nkurz said:

 

Well, that would seem to ruin that part of my theory!   Any other ideas?  It does seem like there should be some way of predicting the divergence ahead of time.  I don't think "smooth" versus "non-smooth" is enough, but maybe it is.  

Players who tend to drop the club and flatten the shaft a lot on the downswing will likely have a more difficult time with longer shafts. People who transition the club gradually and build up speed likely will have more success with a longer shaft vs people with a violent, quick transition. 

 

If you have high hands at the top of the swing (upright), it will likely be harder to time the strike versus someone who has a bit of a flatter move and creates less drastic plane changes. 

 

Another element will be if you naturally have a longer backswing versus a short backswing. While a short backswing is generally associated with more control, an exception will be when you're swinging a 45.5" or longer driver. It's kind of a paradox, but with a really long driver, you have to be able to feel like the club is swinging itself through momentum. It's not really something that happens, or you can feel well with a short backswing. 

 

Something I've also seen is that players who feel they are timing-based players will adjust easier to a longer shaft than those who are very mechanical. 

[Dan Drake]

I had an Aldila NV 60x in a Callaway Epic Speed Max LS with the sliding weight removed to get it to feel manageable.  Everyone else has covered the tech-y part of this as well as the rules of thumb quite well, so I'll just add this:

 

If 48" was still the legal length limit for drivers, that's what I'd be playing.  

[mizunotpz]

58 minutes ago, nkurz said:

 

Well, that would seem to ruin that part of my theory!   Any other ideas?  It does seem like there should be some way of predicting the divergence ahead of time.  I don't think "smooth" versus "non-smooth" is enough, but maybe it is.  

I believe over the toppers or steep benefit more from shorter shafts. Most of them struggle with long irons and woods under 17 degree loft.

[ChaosTheory]

4 hours ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I DID end up shortening it to 46" when the USGA passed their rule and play it at that now.

 

BT

 

 

For what it’s worth, the USGA rule is a local rule for elite competitions.  It doesn’t apply generally to the rest of us.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Snowman9000

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, nkurz said:

 

Well, that would seem to ruin that part of my theory!   Any other ideas?  It does seem like there should be some way of predicting the divergence ahead of time.  I don't think "smooth" versus "non-smooth" is enough, but maybe it is.  

 

If it helps, I'm not particularly smooth, seem to load the shaft a fair amount.

 

[Ri_Redneck]

47 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

For what it’s worth, the USGA rule is a local rule for elite competitions.  It doesn’t apply generally to the rest of us.

Yeah, but it makes me feel like I COULD be elite...... maybe! 🤣

 

BT

[Stuart_G]

10 hours ago, nkurz said:

 

Well, that would seem to ruin that part of my theory!   Any other ideas?  It does seem like there should be some way of predicting the divergence ahead of time.  I don't think "smooth" versus "non-smooth" is enough, but maybe it is.  

 

FWIW, I personally don't think anything is going to be enough to become any kind of reliable predictor.  

 

But don't let me stop you from trying.