Ball In Bounds, But Hostile Homeowner Forbids Play

[davep043]

2 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

To the OP's issue. I can't see him getting free relief - a human is not animal under rules of golf so that is out and 16.1 is very clear it only applies to what is on the course. The property owner forbid him from standing on his lawn, to me that is the same as if the house was built right up to the property line. You can stand there and it is OB - you have not entitlement to a stance OB. 

True, you are not entitled to a "normal" stance.  The prohibition by the homeowner is almost as if there really IS a wall there.  And if there was a wall, the player would be allowed to explore other non-normal stances, strokes, or direction of play.  And if the path interferes with a type of stroke that isn't unreasonable, given all the circumstances, then he is entitled to Relief.  The second paragraph in Clarification 16.1a(3)/1 makes this abundantly clear.

[2bGood]

25 minutes ago, davep043 said:

True, you are not entitled to a "normal" stance.  The prohibition by the homeowner is almost as if there really IS a wall there.  And if there was a wall, the player would be allowed to explore other non-normal stances, strokes, or direction of play.  And if the path interferes with a type of stroke that isn't unreasonable, given all the circumstances, then he is entitled to Relief.  The second paragraph in Clarification 16.1a(3)/1 makes this abundantly clear.

Yes you are correct. I am wrong on this one. 

 

 

[Cwing]

Interesting thread.

[Newby]

8 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Yes you are correct. I am wrong on this one. 

 

 

I explained this about 17 hours ago

[596]

Looks to me, you could stand there and take a swing to get the ball back in play without being on his property.  Just because you can't take a full swing or a full stance does not get you relief. 

[Newby]

2 hours ago, 596 said:

Looks to me, you could stand there and take a swing to get the ball back in play without being on his property.  Just because you can't take a full swing or a full stance does not get you relief. 

It does

Interference exists when: An abnormal course condition physically interferes with the player’s area of intended stance or area of intended swing,

It doesn't limit interference to 'only a little'

Edited March 26, 2023 by Newby

[596]

20 minutes ago, Newby said:

It does

Interference exists when: An abnormal course condition physically interferes with the player’s area of intended stance or area of intended swing,

It doesn't limit interference to 'only a little'

That's if you consider his "fence" an "abnormal course condition".  It's not on the course so I'm not sure that that would apply. 

[EmperorPenguin]

1 hour ago, Newby said:

It does

Interference exists when: An abnormal course condition physically interferes with the player’s area of intended stance or area of intended swing,

It doesn't limit interference to 'only a little'

I do not think this would qualify as an abnormal condition because the hostile homeowner ("Get off my property!") is off the course.  I know very well that the boundary is defined by the inside points of the OB stakes, and let's assume for the sake of argument that the ball is indeed in bounds.  Where does it say that the golfer is either entitled or not entitled to a normal stance?  The Rules say simply in this case that the ball is in play.  Sure, a committee can implement a Local Rule to remedy the hostile homeowner, but let's assume for now that there is no Local Rule.

 

Does the Equity Rule apply here, that the golfer simply can just replace the ball right of the cart path on the same lie and just play from there?

Edited March 26, 2023 by EmperorPenguin

[EmperorPenguin]

Hey, I just realized something.  If I turn the club upside-down and try to play it southpaw, I would be standing on the path.  In that case, since I would be standing on the path, I would certainly be allowed relief.  Although this may be a solution in this case, what would be the solution if there is no cart path in play, that you just have grass right of the OB stakes?

Edited March 26, 2023 by EmperorPenguin

[Newby]

3 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Hey, I just realized something.  If I turn the club upside-down and try to play it southpaw, I would be standing on the path.  In that case, since I would be standing on the path, I would certainly be allowed relief.  Although this may be a solution in this case, what would be the solution if there is no cart path in play, that you just have grass right of the OB stakes?

Your first part is in effect what I was suggesting. This, on the basis that there is nowhere for the player to stand if the neighbour has prevented him from standing on his land. As I indicated, it is not unreasonable for him to play left handed or with the back of the club, both involving standing on the path.

As to your second point where there is no path, there is no relief for boundary objects. He would have to play it as it lies or take an unplayable. Imagine if the boundary was simply the edge of a cliff, where he obviously couldn't stand.

[Newby]

5 hours ago, 596 said:

That's if you consider his "fence" an "abnormal course condition".  It's not on the course so I'm not sure that that would apply. 

A boundary object is not an abnormal course condition. The ACC is the path.

If he can't stand OB because the owner has got an junction that forbids players to stand on his line and/or the club have actually forbidden such action (by LR say), is is reasonable that he may stand on the path to make some sort of stroke in order to avoid a penalty. I which case he may get relief.

[larrybud]

I'd play dumb, take my shot, and if he comes out b!tching I'd say "no habla engles"

 

Two can play at this old man yelling at a cloud syndrome!

[Double Mocha Man]

10 hours ago, larrybud said:

I'd play dumb, take my shot, and if he comes out b!tching I'd say "no habla engles"

 

Two can play at this old man yelling at a cloud syndrome!

 

Or maybe he can stand on the golf course and take 20 practice swings making 20 deep divots in the guy's lawn, and then walk away. 😁