Cleveland smh...

[schaperb90]

So after going back and forth for a while, I finally decided (well at least had decided) to order some rtx 6 wedges. I called them to ask how to add a swing weight to a custom build online. They said they don't build to a swing weight and if I wanted that done I had to go to a custom builder. This didn't seem right so I called right back and was told the same thing. I explained a wanted s400s, 1/2" long, with a z cord midsize and if they wouldn't build to a swing weight, could they give me and idea of what ballpark that build would be swing weight wise. They said they didn't know and it would be what it would be as they again don't take sw requests. Let's just say I'm disappointed and no longer have any confidence in Cleveland for a custom build. Maybe I am too used to ping, but when I order a custom club, it seems only logical for me to know what I am getting. Also, that any decent company wouldn't purely slap components together and just send it out. They don't hold themselves to a high standard over there...

[bekgolf]

6 hours ago, schaperb90 said:

So after going back and forth for a while, I finally decided (well at least had decided) to order some rtx 6 wedges. I called them to ask how to add a swing weight to a custom build online. They said they don't build to a swing weight and if I wanted that done I had to go to a custom builder. This didn't seem right so I called right back and was told the same thing. I explained a wanted s400s, 1/2" long, with a z cord midsize and if they wouldn't build to a swing weight, could they give me and idea of what ballpark that build would be swing weight wise. They said they didn't know and it would be what it would be as they again don't take sw requests. Let's just say I'm disappointed and no longer have any confidence in Cleveland for a custom build. Maybe I am too used to ping, but when I order a custom club, it seems only logical for me to know what I am getting. Also, that any decent company wouldn't purely slap components together and just send it out. They don't hold themselves to a high standard over there...

 

You might try an email, that way it can be forwarded to someone who can help.  Often times phone answering people don't have all the info, are overwhelmed with call volume and are under pressure to complete a call.

 

I've had very good experiences emailing Cleveland, never have called them even when there was an issue.  I had to check the website and sure enough there is no way to specify swing weight in a custom build.  I find it odd because silly things like paint fill color can be specified.

 

Good luck

 

 

[mantan]

I think that just may be their deal.  I've seen on other threads that Srixon/Cleveland doesn't do custom swingweights.  It seems kinda odd in this day and age of customization.  I've heard they'll have different weight heads they'll use to accommodate length requests to get the club to their listed standard...but they won't build the entire club to a specified weight.

Edited March 27 by mantan

[ChipNRun]

Not sure of the big picture on this.

 

A local Golf Galaxy will not build for a specific swingweight. The clubsmiths have decent training, but specific SwWts is a no-go. I got my three MD wedges reshafted with PX Catalyst graphite shafts in fall 2021. For SwWt, I borrowed their scale after reshaft and put lead tape on the lower back of the SW and LW to get the SwWt I wanted.

 

I suspect part of the problem is that the average golfer doesn't understand how SwWt works. Possibly Cleveland and others want to avoid the "customer from hell."  

 

Pre-COVID, factory builds by Callaway and Ping could get SwWt adjustments. In most cases, this was for seniors who went to lighter graphite shafts, but wanted to retain the old D2 or so SwWt from heavier iron shafts. C and P would add tip weights to recapture the SwWt.

 

This SwWt option disappeared during COVID for Callaway. I asked for it in my MAX irons, and was told it would disrupt the supply chain, cause planets to collide, etc.

 

Not sure on situation for Ping.

[mantan]

45 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

Not sure of the big picture on this.

 

A local Golf Galaxy will not build for a specific swingweight. The clubsmiths have decent training, but specific SwWts is a no-go. I got my three MD wedges reshafted with PX Catalyst graphite shafts in fall 2021. For SwWt, I borrowed their scale after reshaft and put lead tape on the lower back of the SW and LW to get the SwWt I wanted.

 

I suspect part of the problem is that the average golfer doesn't understand how SwWt works. Possibly Cleveland and others want to avoid the "customer from hell."  

 

Pre-COVID, factory builds by Callaway and Ping could get SwWt adjustments. In most cases, this was for seniors who went to lighter graphite shafts, but wanted to retain the old D2 or so SwWt from heavier iron shafts. C and P would add tip weights to recapture the SwWt.

 

This SwWt option disappeared during COVID for Callaway. I asked for it in my MAX irons, and was told it would disrupt the supply chain, cause planets to collide, etc.

 

Not sure on situation for Ping.

 

Wasn't the deal with PING that for most of their heads they could just throw in a different insert weight or screw which made custom swingweighting easier.

[schaperb90]

I called ping as I am now just ordering glides. Told them my specs and they told me they could build it as heavy as d6 but no higher. Since I want d5, it all worked out. So ping definitely still caters to this type of thing.

 

I get some can be a customer from hell, but I know my specs, and just want new wedges that feel that same. The big problem is I play 1/2" long than standard, s400 ti, midsize grip, at d5. For cleveland to just assembly a club in this way, I could easily have a wedge show up way under d5. For most this problem is irrelevant if they play standardish stuff. Ping is just king in terms of the ability to build anything you want.

 

Really just kind of a rant post, but just found it very odd that a company like cleveland refuses this type of thing. Same goes for callaway if that also is the case. I struggle trusting companies like this. If building for a specific sw slows down your productivity, how many other corners did you cut in the clubs design in the name of productivity?

[bekgolf]

1 hour ago, schaperb90 said:

I called ping as I am now just ordering glides. Told them my specs and they told me they could build it as heavy as d6 but no higher. Since I want d5, it all worked out. So ping definitely still caters to this type of thing.

 

I get some can be a customer from hell, but I know my specs, and just want new wedges that feel that same. The big problem is I play 1/2" long than standard, s400 ti, midsize grip, at d5. For cleveland to just assembly a club in this way, I could easily have a wedge show up way under d5. For most this problem is irrelevant if they play standardish stuff. Ping is just king in terms of the ability to build anything you want.

 

Really just kind of a rant post, but just found it very odd that a company like cleveland refuses this type of thing. Same goes for callaway if that also is the case. I struggle trusting companies like this. If building for a specific sw slows down your productivity, how many other corners did you cut in the clubs design in the name of productivity?

 

I get it.  I'm still surprised that someone can order paint fill colors and custom stamping but can't specify a swing weight, lol.

[mantan]

2 hours ago, schaperb90 said:

I called ping as I am now just ordering glides. Told them my specs and they told me they could build it as heavy as d6 but no higher. Since I want d5, it all worked out. So ping definitely still caters to this type of thing.

 

I get some can be a customer from hell, but I know my specs, and just want new wedges that feel that same. The big problem is I play 1/2" long than standard, s400 ti, midsize grip, at d5. For cleveland to just assembly a club in this way, I could easily have a wedge show up way under d5. For most this problem is irrelevant if they play standardish stuff. Ping is just king in terms of the ability to build anything you want.

 

Really just kind of a rant post, but just found it very odd that a company like cleveland refuses this type of thing. Same goes for callaway if that also is the case. I struggle trusting companies like this. If building for a specific sw slows down your productivity, how many other corners did you cut in the clubs design in the name of productivity?

It's disappointing for sure. I wonder if part of it is just the equipment boom we are in right now.  Everybody is selling a ton of clubs. So it's not as much about cutting corners but deciding if you want to cater to the very small percentage of golfers who know enough about customization to worry about swing weight.  It sucks because odds are people who don't know end up with less than optimal fits when they order custom equipment.  They'll blame the clubs for not being as good as they expected when it may be a swing weight issue.

 

I think a lot of golfers don't know much about it. How many topics have we seen over WRX over the years from guys touting 'just chop and inch of your driver and it'll be great' with no regard to a potentially major change in SW if they do it.  For golfers who aren't' sensitive to swing weight it may work great for others it can turn a great driver into a wild one.

[cw1209]

Just ordered RTX6 wedges at +1/2" with KBS 610 (120gm) and Hi Rev (125gm) and MCC midsize grips (59gm). Measured swingweight is D4-D5. 

Edited March 28 by cw1209

[schaperb90]

7 hours ago, cw1209 said:

Just ordered RTX6 wedges at +1/2" with KBS 610 (120gm) and Hi Rev (125gm) and MCC midsize grips (59gm). Measured swingweight is D4-D5. 

 

Semi good to hear, but even had I heard prior to ordering glides, I don't think that would have changed my mind. Still don't trust them anymore. There definitely is the chance it could have all worked out, but I'm not gambling with $700 in wedges. 

[R.Patrick]

Odd - just built up vokeys w/ s400 +1/2” and midsize grip and it wasn't possible to get below D5.

[me05501]

I'm not judging the OP by any means but it's interesting to notice how much we've changed as consumers over the last few decades.

 

We want exactly what we want, we'd like to have it now, and we don't want to pay a premium for customization. When those conditions aren't met we blame the supplier for not changing their business model to our tastes. 

Cleveland has done the math and decided that their margins are better if they cater to the 95% and let the 5% buy from someone else. That's their call. Our call is to either modify their products to our tastes or shop with another vendor. 

[Red4282]

Hey if they out their grips on straight and ferrules are properly turned down, consider that a win. Big OEM (most) clubbuilding these days is sub par at best. Throw things together and sell to the 95% who dont care or wont notice. Thats why if possible Im considering smaller brands and hopefully local who want your business and will gladly oblige to details and quality.

Edited March 29 by Red4282

[soufrog]

I have a friend who is a club builder and I've seen it from every company, they all have down falls when it comes to club building, I'm sure most of the people building these clubs at the factories arent like the Ian and TXG's of the world, they have went thru basic training and thats all. I'm guessing most cant take the weight from all the parts and figure out what the swing weight will come out to. I mean I bet if you took off all your grips and weighed them there would be a few that are way different then the others, pure is about the only one we have seen that keep it close. I think if you want a true custom build you go to a custom builder not an oem.

[mantan]

2 hours ago, soufrog said:

I have a friend who is a club builder and I've seen it from every company, they all have down falls when it comes to club building, I'm sure most of the people building these clubs at the factories arent like the Ian and TXG's of the world, they have went thru basic training and thats all. I'm guessing most cant take the weight from all the parts and figure out what the swing weight will come out to. I mean I bet if you took off all your grips and weighed them there would be a few that are way different then the others, pure is about the only one we have seen that keep it close. I think if you want a true custom build you go to a custom builder not an oem.

 

Very true. It's not like OEMs are building clubs are built by a guy in a leather apron and handlebar moustache meticulously crafting each club to the exact measurements with the care patience of Hatori Hanzo creating a sword.

 

It's more like people in a factory of various skill levels doing their job to get clubs assembled and out the door.  There will be a variance in quality and specs across a spec. A custom club builder is always the best option if you want your gear perfect.  I think 99% of golfers don't think about swingweight or their club build.

 

Ping does a good job with it though 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA5ckj_148Y&t=340s&ab_channel=GeekWire

 

Edited March 30 by mantan

[Milfordlefty]

On 3/27/2023 at 11:46 AM, schaperb90 said:

So after going back and forth for a while, I finally decided (well at least had decided) to order some rtx 6 wedges. I called them to ask how to add a swing weight to a custom build online. They said they don't build to a swing weight and if I wanted that done I had to go to a custom builder. This didn't seem right so I called right back and was told the same thing. I explained a wanted s400s, 1/2" long, with a z cord midsize and if they wouldn't build to a swing weight, could they give me and idea of what ballpark that build would be swing weight wise. They said they didn't know and it would be what it would be as they again don't take sw requests. Let's just say I'm disappointed and no longer have any confidence in Cleveland for a custom build. Maybe I am too used to ping, but when I order a custom club, it seems only logical for me to know what I am getting. Also, that any decent company wouldn't purely slap components together and just send it out. They don't hold themselves to a high standard over there...

Did you ask if they would send the clubs without the grips installed, which would give you the opportunity to add weight down the shaft for the swing weight you want? There is 'custom' build within some parameters and then there is 'custom" build with any bells and whistles one wants. You are paying the extra for the bits, but they are not charging you extra labor which is what it will take to reach a desired swing weight. Not to pick on them, but you notice TXG never tells you what the customer paid. I know it is custom and more than MSRP, but just how much is more?

[GatorNate11]

11 minutes ago, Milfordlefty said:

Not to pick on them, but you notice TXG never tells you what the customer paid. I know it is custom and more than MSRP, but just how much is more?

I’ve also wondered if there was any change pre and post CC buyout

[jah7838]

7 hours ago, soufrog said:

I have a friend who is a club builder and I've seen it from every company, they all have down falls when it comes to club building, I'm sure most of the people building these clubs at the factories arent like the Ian and TXG's of the world, they have went thru basic training and thats all. I'm guessing most cant take the weight from all the parts and figure out what the swing weight will come out to. I mean I bet if you took off all your grips and weighed them there would be a few that are way different then the others, pure is about the only one we have seen that keep it close. I think if you want a true custom build you go to a custom builder not an oem.

That's how I am with clubs.  I want the heads to be a certain weight, so I'll just order clubs from whichever manufacturer and I'll immediately take them apart and install tip weights to achieve those weights. 

 

Sometimes, it does require a piece of lead tape or 2, but I at least know the weights are where I want them to be.  With my RTX6 48* and 52*, I had to add 10g tip weights and a piece of lead tape to get them where I wanted them.  No idea what the actual SW is, but the head weight is what I was basing the build on.  

 

If someone wants their clubs to a certain weight, you're probably going to have to pay extra to get them to that weight.  

[schaperb90]

 

On 3/29/2023 at 3:56 PM, me05501 said:

I'm not judging the OP by any means but it's interesting to notice how much we've changed as consumers over the last few decades.

 

We want exactly what we want, we'd like to have it now, and we don't want to pay a premium for customization. When those conditions aren't met we blame the supplier for not changing their business model to our tastes. 

Cleveland has done the math and decided that their margins are better if they cater to the 95% and let the 5% buy from someone else. That's their call. Our call is to either modify their products to our tastes or shop with another vendor. 

 

I mean this is just flat out wrong though. If you are going to offer length adjustments, shaft options, and grip options, you HAVE to be ready to adjust swing weight as a result. If you just slap components together anyone who chooses said options can change the swing weight drastically. Their configurator let's you add +2" to a wedge. That's about 12 swing weight points of change. So that person instead of receiving a d5 lob wedge, they'll receive a c3. I would guess about 99% of golfers would not play well with a c3 lw. It's not catering to the 5%s needs, it's not building your clubs in a way that's setting the consumer up to fail. I'm just in the 5% that understands this is important, but they should be doing this on every build unless otherwise requested by the customer. 

[me05501]

25 minutes ago, schaperb90 said:

 

 

I mean this is just flat out wrong though. If you are going to offer length adjustments, shaft options, and grip options, you HAVE to be ready to adjust swing weight as a result. If you just slap components together anyone who chooses said options can change the swing weight drastically. Their configurator let's you add +2" to a wedge. That's about 12 swing weight points of change. So that person instead of receiving a d5 lob wedge, they'll receive a c3. I would guess about 99% of golfers would not play well with a c3 lw. It's not catering to the 5%s needs, it's not building your clubs in a way that's setting the consumer up to fail. I'm just in the 5% that understands this is important, but they should be doing this on every build unless otherwise requested by the customer. 

I agree it should be better, but we have the choice to vote with our wallets. 
 

 

[schaperb90]

20 minutes ago, me05501 said:

I agree it should be better, but we have the choice to vote with our wallets. 
 

 

 

Agreed. And I did just that. 

[Phabs]

On 3/27/2023 at 6:24 PM, ChipNRun said:

 

 

I suspect part of the problem is that the average golfer doesn't understand how SwWt works. Possibly Cleveland and others want to avoid the "customer from hell."  

 

This.  1000%

[soufrog]

7 hours ago, schaperb90 said:

 

 

I mean this is just flat out wrong though. If you are going to offer length adjustments, shaft options, and grip options, you HAVE to be ready to adjust swing weight as a result. If you just slap components together anyone who chooses said options can change the swing weight drastically. Their configurator let's you add +2" to a wedge. That's about 12 swing weight points of change. So that person instead of receiving a d5 lob wedge, they'll receive a c3. I would guess about 99% of golfers would not play well with a c3 lw. It's not catering to the 5%s needs, it's not building your clubs in a way that's setting the consumer up to fail. I'm just in the 5% that understands this is important, but they should be doing this on every build unless otherwise requested by the customer. 

I agree with you but you dont know what they would have been because you didnt order them, I'm guessing they have ranges (i'm just using numbers for example here) but you order something +1 inch then they use a headweight of 220 or greater, so on and so forth. I think your looking at worst case here. Like I said I have seen it from EVERY oem, some worse then others. Its like I said do u or whoever weigh your grips up before u put them on? I'm guessing some are off a good amount, so if you did your swingweight without grips and didnt weigh every grip you have then I'm guessing some of your weights are off. Like someone said there is custom and then there is CUSTOM work. OEM's are coming up with different ways to try and get u to buy theres because they offer more options.   At the end of the day if you want something truly custom then you need to go to that shop that does it

[Milfordlefty]

16 hours ago, schaperb90 said:

 

 

I mean this is just flat out wrong though. If you are going to offer length adjustments, shaft options, and grip options, you HAVE to be ready to adjust swing weight as a result. If you just slap components together anyone who chooses said options can change the swing weight drastically. Their configurator let's you add +2" to a wedge. That's about 12 swing weight points of change. So that person instead of receiving a d5 lob wedge, they'll receive a c3. I would guess about 99% of golfers would not play well with a c3 lw. It's not catering to the 5%s needs, it's not building your clubs in a way that's setting the consumer up to fail. I'm just in the 5% that understands this is important, but they should be doing this on every build unless otherwise requested by the customer. 

I just looked at the Cleveland website, you can order a club without grip installed, just in the box. I input the options the OP listed  and the only upcharge was $10 for the grip over the $169.99 MSRP price. His modifications would likely double the labor time of the entire build to hit his desired swingweight. So he argues, Cleveland shouldn't offer options if not all build options. Without options Cleveland is offering, and he wants S400 @ 1/2" longer with a midsize grip, he has to buy std club, another shaft and grip and then pay someone to pull and install. Buy it from Cleveland with out grip installed, pay a shop to swing weight/install the grip and enjoy golf.

[schaperb90]

7 hours ago, Milfordlefty said:

I just looked at the Cleveland website, you can order a club without grip installed, just in the box. I input the options the OP listed  and the only upcharge was $10 for the grip over the $169.99 MSRP price. His modifications would likely double the labor time of the entire build to hit his desired swingweight. So he argues, Cleveland shouldn't offer options if not all build options. Without options Cleveland is offering, and he wants S400 @ 1/2" longer with a midsize grip, he has to buy std club, another shaft and grip and then pay someone to pull and install. Buy it from Cleveland with out grip installed, pay a shop to swing weight/install the grip and enjoy golf.

 

Please explain where the labor doubles. 

 

They'll butt trim and prep shaft (they do that either way)

Install grip (they do this either way)

Place on sw scale and either grab a slightly heavier head or tip weight (won't do this either way, but maybe would take a minute?) 

Epoxy (do this either way)

 

Swing weighting in a factory made for building clubs isn't some crazy ordeal. And if they don't have procedures in place to offer this and/or make it efficient, that's just plan odd for a company like Cleveland. 

 

And the only upcharge being $10. Yes, a $12 grip for $10 when I purchase a $180 wedge. They set the price not me. Let's not pretend they are some super pro consumer company because of this. Sure, it can come standard with a tour issue s400, but again, they choose to offer that as free, not me. And frankly, it's pretty clear why. They're heads are less desirable/less popular. It's their way of enticing people to go with them over another brand. They simply couldn't get away with charging $30 or whatever for a shaft and having their price be the same as a vokey for example. That's a business decision they made. 

 

So yes, I will pass on buying and then paying someone to fix (would make the cost the same as just buying the glides or anything else), or fixing myself. It's much easier to pay $30 for the shaft, have them show up ready to go, then enjoy golf. 

 

Do you not find it ironic that they advertise about how they use tour issue stuff (tight tolerances), from a different brand, but don't hold themselves to the same standard? 

[bekgolf]

8 minutes ago, schaperb90 said:

 

Please explain where the labor doubles. 

 

They'll butt trim and prep shaft (they do that either way)

Install grip (they do this either way)

Place on sw scale and either grab a slightly heavier head or tip weight (won't do this either way, but maybe would take a minute?) 

Epoxy (do this either way)

 

Swing weighting in a factory made for building clubs isn't some crazy ordeal. And if they don't have procedures in place to offer this and/or make it efficient, that's just plan odd for a company like Cleveland. 

 

And the only upcharge being $10. Yes, a $12 grip for $10 when I purchase a $180 wedge. They set the price not me. Let's not pretend they are some super pro consumer company because of this. Sure, it can come standard with a tour issue s400, but again, they choose to offer that as free, not me. And frankly, it's pretty clear why. They're heads are less desirable/less popular. It's their way of enticing people to go with them over another brand. They simply couldn't get away with charging $30 or whatever for a shaft and having their price be the same as a vokey for example. That's a business decision they made. 

 

So yes, I will pass on buying and then paying someone to fix (would make the cost the same as just buying the glides or anything else), or fixing myself. It's much easier to pay $30 for the shaft, have them show up ready to go, then enjoy golf. 

 

Do you not find it ironic that they advertise about how they use tour issue stuff (tight tolerances), from a different brand, but don't hold themselves to the same standard? 

 

A good guess would be that they hit the advertised swing weight even with adjustments in length.  More than likely they have a nice cheat sheet for the person on the build line regarding swing weight and how to compensate for non standard clubs.

 

Beyond that I'm not sure what you are expecting?  They don't advertise custom swing weight on the webpage, it's quite possible you confused the minimum wage person answering the phone with your questioning and they simply gave up.

 

So who did you contract for your new wedge?

[schaperb90]

3 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

A good guess would be that they hit the advertised swing weight even with adjustments in length.  More than likely they have a nice cheat sheet for the person on the build line regarding swing weight and how to compensate for non standard clubs.

 

Beyond that I'm not sure what you are expecting?  They don't advertise custom swing weight on the webpage, it's quite possible you confused the minimum wage person answering the phone with your questioning and they simply gave up.

 

So who did you contract for your new wedge?

 

Ping, where the "minimum wage" person instantly knew what I was talking about and double checked that they could do what I wanted. The fact that you are making some passive aggressive remark about who I "contracted" is hilarious to me. We are on golfwrx, did you forget that part?

[bekgolf]

1 minute ago, schaperb90 said:

 

Ping, where the "minimum wage" person instantly knew what I was talking about and double checked that they could do what I wanted. The fact that you are making some passive aggressive remark about who I "contracted" is hilarious to me. We are on golfwrx, did you forget that part?

 

I meant to type "contact", it was a typo.  Contact as in Cleveland lost your business, who did you go with?

[Striker Ace]

I used to think that it was no big deal but I am beginning to realize that swing weight does matter when it comes to rhythm and tempo and feel. An example for me is that a heavier feeling head is no Bueno for me personally. I kinda need a perfect balance to whip it on through a nice easy swing.

[JMB3]

11 hours ago, schaperb90 said:

 

Ping, where the "minimum wage" person instantly knew what I was talking about and double checked that they could do what I wanted. The fact that you are making some passive aggressive remark about who I "contracted" is hilarious to me. We are on golfwrx, did you forget that part?

Just because Ping says they will do it, doesn’t mean they will do it right…. I’d still check SW. Fellow WRXer had his i230s come in at E0.  They took them back and replaced them, and they still came in heavy the second time around.