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DMDs in use at PGA Championship


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15 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

 

 

I'm dumbfounded how a golfer can come to this conclusion unless you're just playing in an open field and DFAF about your score. 

 

I can understand that as you only quoted a small part of what I wrote.

 

There are many golfers on my home club who know the courses like the palm of their hand. For them there is absolutely no need for any DMD nor distance markes as they know the distances by heart. In the old days it was the same. And if the course was not familiar the players would play /walk through the course and make notes, just the same as today.

 

I am eager to hear if you disagree.

 

Edited by Mr. Bean
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Give it up boyz. You should know by now that ol' beanie thinks he's Patrick Swayze (re-born of course). :classic_rolleyes:

 

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This reminds me of trying to get my teen to understand the concept of driving around (automobiles) w/o a gps to give them directions.  

 

Getting distance without GPS is certainly a skill (just like using a map to navigate) - but it's really not all that hard to learn with a little effort and practice and it really doesn't take very much time to get those distances when you know what you're doing.   DMD's might save a bit of effort - but not really much time - especially relative to all the other things that slow down a round.

 

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2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

 

I'll put aside the fact that I don't believe cart use in the US really is "the norm"  - yes it's common but walking is also very common.

 

GPS in the carts are generally only common in more resort based courses - and not even in all of them.   There is only once course (out of about 20) that I play on a semi-regular basis that has GPS in the carts.

 

 

 

No reason to state this as fact... its most likely regional/dependent on where you live. 

 

Out here ~80% of courses have GPS's.  And I probably see 1/100 golfers walking, and that's being generous.

 

 

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1 hour ago, R_Swanson said:

 

No reason to state this as fact... its most likely regional/dependent on where you live. 

 

Out here ~80% of courses have GPS's.  And I probably see 1/100 golfers walking, and that's being generous.

 

 

I'd agree it's probably regional when I live in the Northeast I'd walk a lot more. Most courses had fees then added on cart fees, so you'd see more walkers. 

 

Now in Florida the greens fee includes the cart already. Also, I'm not playing an afternoon round in high heat and humidity then going back to a toddler. 

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1 hour ago, R_Swanson said:

 

No reason to state this as fact... its most likely regional/dependent on where you live. 

 

Out here ~80% of courses have GPS's.  And I probably see 1/100 golfers walking, and that's being generous.

 

 

Likely the opposite %age here. Generally only courses with US tourists hiring carts/buggies have them here. But most younger 'home' players seem to have their own handhelds (even if the only course they play is their own).

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3 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

There are many golfers on my home club who know the courses like the palm of their hand. For them there is absolutely no need for any DMD nor distance markes as they know the distances by heart. In the old days it was the same. And if the course was not familiar the players would play /walk through the course and make notes, just the same as today.

 

I am eager to hear if you disagree.

For me THE MOST critical DMD measurement is distance to the pin from inside 100 yards. If I don't have a laser I don't  have  the info that I am after no matter how familiar I am with the  course.

 

dave

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24 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

For me THE MOST critical DMD measurement is distance to the pin from inside 100 yards. If I don't have a laser I don't  have  the info that I am after no matter how familiar I am with the  course.

 

dave

 

Why? 

 

Dave, the answer is that you do not pay attention. And the reason you do not pay attention is you have the DMD. If you did NOT have the DMD you would pay attention and memorize the distances and the clubs. But as you do not HAVE TO you do not.

 

 

Edited by Mr. Bean
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14 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

Why? 

 

Dave, the answer is that you do not pay attention. And the reason you do not pay attention is you have the DMD. If you did NOT have the DMD you would pay attention and memorize the distances and the clubs. But as you do not HAVE TO you do not.

 

Are you really serious in this response? Keep in mind that pin positions can move 20 yards on pretty much every green I play and 30 or more on many of them. And it is not unusual to not even be able to see the bottom of the flag from where your ball is sitting 57.48 yards from the center of the green. 

 

dave

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13 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Are you really serious in this response? Keep in mind that pin positions can move 20 yards on pretty much every green I play and 30 or more on many of them. And it is not unusual to not even be able to see the bottom of the flag from where your ball is sitting 57.48 yards from the center of the green. 

 

dave

 

It seems we have very different abilities in establishing distances ON A FAMILIAR COURSE.

 

So be it. I am done with this.

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

I am done with this.

i bet you’re not 

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2 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Now that is lame. If you cannot justify your view then you need to accept the other point of view.

 

It seems to be you accepted mine. Thank you.

 

I've accepted your what ?

 

I didn't comment on your pov. I didn't even address my post to you. :classic_laugh:

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On 5/24/2023 at 2:00 PM, Mr. Bean said:

It all comes to the player's ability to keep his position relative to the group in front. Anything else is unimportant.

 

1 hour ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Are you really serious in this response? Keep in mind that pin positions can move 20 yards on pretty much every green I play and 30 or more on many of them. And it is not unusual to not even be able to see the bottom of the flag from where your ball is sitting 57.48 yards from the center of the green. 

 

dave

 

C'mon dave.

 

All Mr B cares about is for players in front of him to not hold him up.

 

Anything else is unimportant (to HIM, even if not to them). :classic_wink:

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10 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

C'mon dave.

 

All Mr B cares about is for players in front of him to not hold him up.

 

Anything else is unimportant (to HIM, even if not to them).

 

FWIW, where this really gets critical (for me) is inside 50 yards where just a few yards matter. Or maybe I should say 'used to matter' back when I was practicing daily and included my 'flags' drill where I would hit to targets 5 yards apart from 20 to 50'ish yards. Before DMD days I learned to judge 'halfway' and if I was 40 or so yards from the pin I would pace out halfway and double that. I don't think anybody ever knew that I was doing that. But a DMD is certainly faster in those cases. 

 

And BTW, I would really prefer to have a line and a distance (under 50'ish yards) without being able to see the pin vs. seeing the pin but not having the distance. 

 

I am not sure what I am supposed to 'remember' so that I know the yardage to something better than 5 yards on those type shots. 

 

dave

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16 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

I am not sure what I am supposed to 'remember' so that I know the yardage to something better than 5 yards on those type shots. 

beanbot never forgets. 

 

you shouldn’t either. 

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7 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Our golf carts have a GPS in them. What do you guys need a separate DMD for??

 

A) Not all golf carts have GPS.

B) Some GPS in carts don't show the distance to the hole location.

C) Not everyone rides in carts. Walkers don't have GPS in carts.

D) Sometimes it's cart-path-only.

E) Lasers are more accurate than GPS. Or touching a screen with GPS.

F) Etc.

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1 hour ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

FWIW, where this really gets critical (for me) is inside 50 yards where just a few yards matter. Or maybe I should say 'used to matter' back when I was practicing daily and included my 'flags' drill where I would hit to targets 5 yards apart from 20 to 50'ish yards. Before DMD days I learned to judge 'halfway' and if I was 40 or so yards from the pin I would pace out halfway and double that. I don't think anybody ever knew that I was doing that. But a DMD is certainly faster in those cases. 

 

And BTW, I would really prefer to have a line and a distance (under 50'ish yards) without being able to see the pin vs. seeing the pin but not having the distance. 

 

I am not sure what I am supposed to 'remember' so that I know the yardage to something better than 5 yards on those type shots. 

 

dave

 

I don't know either.

 

He accused you of not paying attention to (presumably) various course markings & yardages & remembering same because you had a DMD and DMDs are against the,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ummmmmm,,,,,,,,,, wait, they're not. thinking.gif

 

Sorry, I don't know. shrug.gif

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I can think of two people I've known in my golfing life who are thoughtful, intelligent, fun to play golf with and basically folks whose opinion I value...except on the subject of distance measurement devices. On that one topic they are completely beyond reason. They will trot out arguments claiming that doing without DMD's will make me a better golfer, that it will make me enjoy golf more, that it more courteous to other golfers, basically any crazy excuse you can think of for the fact they simply, irrationally hate them. 

 

I even let one of them talk me into playing golf for a month one time without my laser or yardage books or even pacing off from sprinklers. His contention was after a dozen rounds played that way I would get so good at eyeballing and guessing distances, I'd realize how I'd been depriving myself of one of the most important parts of golf.

 

I was somewhat surprised to find that playing with no objective knowledge of distance did not totally ruin my game. I was pretty much able to get around and shoot reasonable scores but a couple times in a typical round I'd bury an approach shot under the lip of a bunker or have a perfectly struck wedge fly completely over the green and nestle itself into the rough. 

 

I'd suppose that my friend would have told me I just needed to stick to it long enough to quit making those distance-guessing errors. But I couldn't wait for the month to be over and get back to actually knowing how far I needed to hit each shot. 

 

Don't know why this is such a hot button issue for some people but it is.

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2 hours ago, North Butte said:

Don't know why this is such a hot button issue for some people but it is.

 

This reminds me of when I used to teach junior high math (maths for those of you over the pond) and calculators started to be a thing. I let my students use them knowing that we could focus more on the concepts I needed them to learn when we took the raw calculation stuff out of the equation. (See what I did there? LOL) But other teachers were dead set against allowing them in their classroom. Very similar arguments…

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8 hours ago, North Butte said:

 

I even let one of them talk me into playing golf for a month one time without my laser or yardage books or even pacing off from sprinklers. His contention was after a dozen rounds played that way I would get so good at eyeballing and guessing distances, I'd realize how I'd been depriving myself of one of the most important parts of golf.

 

I was somewhat surprised to find that playing with no objective knowledge of distance did not totally ruin my game.

 

Interesting experiment thanks for sharing.  I've personally never run into anyone that had any problem with am's using DMD's or put any emphasis on their use degrading their skill as a golfer - but I'm not really surprised - there are all types out there.

 

but ...

 

the relevant question is, when you got near the end of the that period,  how did it effect the time it took to play a round?   Did it cause any problems keeping up with the group in front of you?

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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23 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Interesting experiment thanks for sharing.  I've personally never run into anyone that had any problem with am's using DMD's or put any emphasis on their use degrading their skill as a golfer - but I'm not really surprised - there are all types out there.

 

but ...

 

the relevant question is, when you got near the end of the that period,  how did it effect the time it took to play a round?   Did it cause any problems keeping up with the group in front of you?

 

Not at all. But I play very fast no matter what. Unless I'm solo on an uncrowded course I'm waiting on every shot anyway.

 

So without a laser I pretty much just winged it, glancing at a marked sprinkler as I walked by or whatever but not going out of my way to pace of yardages or anything like that.

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28 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Not at all. But I play very fast no matter what. Unless I'm solo on an uncrowded course I'm waiting on every shot anyway.

 

So without a laser I pretty much just winged it, glancing at a marked sprinkler as I walked by or whatever but not going out of my way to pace of yardages or anything like that.

 

Not surprised.

 

But IMO that does add some credence to the thoughts that fast players will be fast with or without DMD's  - and slow players will still be slow with or without them.   The DMD's themselves don't really play much of a role in the overall speed of the round.

 

Not that I trust my memory all that much 😉 - but in all the years I played before DMD's were popular or allowed - I can't remember ever really feeling rushed to get yardages or that doing so would compromise my ability to keep up with groups ahead of me.   And while I may not have been a super fast player,  keeping up pace of play was drilled into me to the point of being WAY more important than how well I scored.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Not surprised.

 

But IMO that does add some credence to the thoughts that fast players will be fast with or without DMD's  - and slow players will still be slow with or without them.   The DMD's themselves don't really play much of a role in the overall speed of the round.

 

Not that I trust my memory all that much 😉 - but in all the years I played before DMD's were popular or allowed - I can't remember ever really feeling rushed to get yardages or that doing so would compromise my ability to keep up with groups ahead of me.   And while I may not have been a super fast player,  keeping up pace of play was drilled into me to the point of being WAY more important than how well I scored.

 

 

The topic started out about use of DMD's in television golf. Those dudes are the total opposite of you or me in this regard. Pace of play is the absolute last thing on their priority list and I can't imagine most of them hitting a shot without precise yardage info, no matter how long it takes. Back when I used to watch golf on TV I've seen players send their caddie pacing 100+ yards to get to a known reference point if they were way out of position. 

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58 minutes ago, North Butte said:

The topic started out about use of DMD's in television golf. Those dudes are the total opposite of you or me in this regard. Pace of play is the absolute last thing on their priority list and I can't imagine most of them hitting a shot without precise yardage info, no matter how long it takes.

 

I agree.   But the topic has diverged into it's roll in amateur pace of play.   

 

But even so it really doesn't take them (or really their caddies) very long to get that precise yardage the vast majority of the time.   Frequently the caddies will already have it by the time the player gets to the ball - and it's almost always well before it's their turn to hit.

 

58 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Back when I used to watch golf on TV I've seen players send their caddie pacing 100+ yards to get to a known reference point if they were way out of position. 

 

Yes there are rare exceptions to how long it takes - but I'm sure you also saw them (just as frequently) sometimes taking 5 minutes or more after they got their yardage to actually hit the shot.  Well you probably didn't see it since the coverage switched to other players while it was going on but the time was clear in how long it took to get back to the player to see them finally play it.

 

Fast and slow play is dominated by attitude way more than tools or equipment.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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Padraig Harrington is a fan and says they speed up play. 

 

https://twitter.com/padraig_h/status/1663211624650493952?s=20

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On 5/25/2023 at 4:38 PM, Mr. Bean said:

 

Glacial..? I bet you have never played on a course made of ice or snow.

 

I have.

Actually numerous times, I played in the Eskimo Open @ Cog Hill for years when I lived in Chicago.

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