When is low spin too low?

[barnum1]

Hi, I get pretty low spin from my new driver according to Foresight:
  Backspin 1606
  Ball speed 133.9 mph
  Launch angle 14.1
  Peak height 71.2 feet
  Carry 226.3 yards

  Total 247.9 yards
This is with range balls, but good ones (Titleist Tour Practice Yellow).

 

These numbers are good for my average swing speed (just above 90 mph), but the spin is very low.
But is this a problem? What is the drawback with low spin, if the other numbers are good? 

 

Thanks!

[golfinbrad]

What is your swing speed?

[larrybud]

16 minutes ago, barnum1 said:

Hi, I get pretty low spin from my new driver according to Foresight:
  Backspin 1606
  Ball speed 133.9 mph
  Launch angle 14.1
  Peak height 71.2 feet
  Carry 226.3 yards

  Total 247.9 yards
This is with range balls, but good ones (Titleist Tour Practice Yellow).

 

These numbers are good for my average swing speed (just above 90 mph), but the spin is very low.
But is this a problem? What is the drawback with low spin, if the other numbers are good? 

 

Thanks!

 

Where are you getting these numbers from? I find it hard to believe you're getting 226 carry with 134 ball speed. Morel like 210 with 225 total.

 

Play around with the flightscope shot optimizer and see for yourself:
https://trajectory.flightscope.com/

Edited May 25, 2023 by larrybud

[barnum1]

32 minutes ago, golfinbrad said:

What is your swing speed?

just above 90 mph

[barnum1]

20 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

Where are you getting these numbers from? I find it hard to believe you're getting 226 carry with 134 ball speed. Morel like 210 with 225 total.

 

Play around with the flightscope shot optimizer and see for yourself:
https://trajectory.flightscope.com/

Foresight 

[Cwebb]

What is your ball flight on the course with the ball you play?

[jvincent]

35 minutes ago, barnum1 said:

These numbers are good for my average swing speed (just above 90 mph), but the spin is very low.
But is this a problem? What is the drawback with low spin, if the other numbers are good? 

 

Thanks!

 

The total numbers are surprising given your launch conditions. Where did these come from?

 

To answer your specific question, if spin is too low your ball will fall out of the air early because it doesn't have enough spin to generate lift. This will likely cost you distance.

 

If you are really at 1600 RPM you are already in the danger zone.

[barnum1]

Just now, Cwebb said:

What is your ball flight on the course with the ball you play?

It's low-ish. The Foresight numbers indicate it too. 

 

[Cwebb]

2 minutes ago, barnum1 said:

It's low-ish. The Foresight numbers indicate it too. 

 

 

Sounds like the low-spin is costing you carry distance and potentially total distance as well, if the ball is "dropping" out of the air almost like a knuckle-ball.  The simple test is to try a bit more loft on a driver or a higher spinning ball

Edited May 25, 2023 by Cwebb

[phizzy30]

At your ss  and ball speed, you should be closer to 2500-2800 rpm for optimal carry. 

[barnum1]

7 minutes ago, jvincent said:

 

The total numbers are surprising given your launch conditions. Where did these come from?

 

To answer your specific question, if spin is too low your ball will fall out of the air early because it doesn't have enough spin to generate lift. This will likely cost you distance.

 

If you are really at 1600 RPM you are already in the danger zone.

The numbers are from Foresight, so they should be reliable?

Edited May 25, 2023 by barnum1

[golfinbrad]

Not perfect, but this is from Trackman

 

 

 

This is from Foresight and has a chart on page 7.

 

 

Understanding Ball Launch Club Data.pdf

 

[jvincent]

8 minutes ago, barnum1 said:

The numbers are from Foresight, so they should be reliable?

 

I assume you mean a GCQuad when you say Foresight.

 

The actual launch numbers should be accurate but the Foresight algorithm is notorious for overestimating distance on low spin shots.

 

Either way, 1600 RPM is definitely in the danger zone for low spin.

[barnum1]

3 minutes ago, jvincent said:

 

I assume you mean a GCQuad when you say Foresight.

 

The actual launch numbers should be accurate but the Foresight algorithm is notorious for overestimating distance on low spin shots.

 

Either way, 1600 RPM is definitely in the danger zone for low spin.

 

Ok, thanks. 

 

Strange thing is that I got pretty good distance also on the course. 

Anyway, I will try to loft up and see what happens. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by barnum1

[Stuart_G]

24 minutes ago, barnum1 said:

The numbers are from Foresight, so they should be reliable?

 

No.   Foresight calcs are well known for having inaccurate (over-blown) carry distances for low spin results (with driver).

 

The flightscope trajectory calculations are more accurate.

 

But before you do anything to the equipment - check face impact location using foot powder spray - or impact tape.   You're probably just getting impact a bit too high on the face.   A little lowering of the tee height might be all you need to get the spin up.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Stuart_G

[PureStrikes54]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

At your ss  and ball speed, you should be closer to 2500-2800 rpm for optimal carry. 

 

This is the correct answer. 1600 spin is awful for dispersion and really only useable by a long drive athlete in certain conditions that has little concern for accuracy. Need to find a rear cg and high moi head and loft up until you can keep your spin above 2500 and get much closer to 3000. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by PureStrikes54

[shaolingolfer]

1600 pretty low but you get good result on Foresight because your launch is high, probably hit up on the ball a bit.

 

I think I heard it somewhere on Foresight, 17 launch with 1700 spin will give you the longest carry on the launch monitor.

[barnum1]

6 minutes ago, shaolingolfer said:

1600 pretty low but you get good result on Foresight because your launch is high, probably hit up on the ball a bit.

 

I think I heard it somewhere on Foresight, 17 launch with 1700 spin will give you the longest carry on the launch monitor.

Yes, AoA was 7 degrees up. 

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, PureStrikes54 said:

 

1600 spin is awful for dispersion

 

Sorry, No it's not.   It's a common misconception but it's not true.  Yes it may cost distance but it does nothing the hurt dispersion.   In fact if the total distance really is shorter, then the potential for offline error will be less, not more.

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Stuart_G

[clinkinfo]

19 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

At your ss  and ball speed, you should be closer to 2500-2800 rpm for optimal carry. 

 

You can't say this absent launch angle.  If you can launch it high, you don't need that spin rate

[clinkinfo]

13 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Sorry, No it's not.   It's a common misconception but it's not true.  Yes it may cost distance but it does nothing the hurt dispersion.   In fact if the total distance really is shorter, then the potential for offline error will be less, not more.

 

 

I'm glad you came in and said it.  This is such a popular misconception and something many golfers just repeat without understanding it's wrong.  

Edited May 26, 2023 by clinkinfo

[ALIF]

13 hours ago, clinkinfo said:

 

You can't say this absent launch angle.  If you can launch it high, you don't need that spin rate

But if your ball speed is only 134,  1600 spin is probably not going to be optimal no matter what your launch angle is.  So generally speaking with that low of a ball speed even with a decent launch angle I think something at least 2200 Would be way better.

[Howard_Jones]

On 5/25/2023 at 6:49 PM, barnum1 said:

Hi, I get pretty low spin from my new driver according to Foresight:
  Backspin 1606
  Ball speed 133.9 mph
  Launch angle 14.1
  Peak height 71.2 feet
  Carry 226.3 yards

  Total 247.9 yards
This is with range balls, but good ones (Titleist Tour Practice Yellow).

 

These numbers are good for my average swing speed (just above 90 mph), but the spin is very low.
But is this a problem? What is the drawback with low spin, if the other numbers are good? 

 

Thanks!

Be aware of that the different launch monitors all have different return values, and Foresight is infamous for generous distances when spin values is low.

This chart fr 135 mph ball speed is made using Flightscope, who is the most conservative on distance at the moment, and the spin value you have now, is too low vs the launch angle you have.
The higher launch is, the less spin we need or want

At your BALL SPEED and LAUNCH, - Peak carry is at 2.250 Rpm
You need a launch of 17 before 1600 rpm delivers peak carry.

At THIS ball speed, we can drop 250 rpm for each 1.0* we gain launch, or the other way, we NEED 250 rpm spin extra for each 1.0* we go below ideal launch. We will still loose carry when LA goes down, but that keeps us on the "optimum ridge" of the chart both ways.

Simply add more loft, higher launch and spin will not hurt.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[barnum1]

8 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Be aware of that the different launch monitors all have different return values, and Foresight is infamous for generous distances when spin values is low.

This chart fr 135 mph ball speed is made using Flightscope, who is the most conservative on distance at the moment, and the spin value you have now, is too low vs the launch angle you have.
The higher launch is, the less spin we need or want

At your BALL SPEED and LAUNCH, - Peak carry is at 2.250 Rpm
You need a launch of 17 before 1600 rpm delivers peak carry.

At THIS ball speed, we can drop 250 rpm for each 1.0* we gain launch, or the other way, we NEED 250 rpm spin extra for each 1.0* we go below ideal launch. We will still loose carry when LA goes down, but that keeps us on the "optimum ridge" of the chart both ways.

Simply add more loft, higher launch and spin will not hurt.

 

Thanks @Howard_Jones, that table is very illustrative.

I see that with my numbers,  the total distance is pretty close to what Foresight says (but not the carry distance).

I will try experiment with loft and launch, although I am very pleased with the distance I get on the course (incl. carry).
 

By the way, how does range balls affect the spin? We used pretty new Titleist Tour Practice Yellow, that did not look worn.

[North Butte]

8 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

At THIS ball speed, we can drop 250 rpm for each 1.0* we gain launch, or the other way, we NEED 250 rpm spin extra for each 1.0* we go below ideal launch. We will still loose carry when LA goes down, but that keeps us on the "optimum ridge" of the chart both ways.

Simply add more loft, higher launch and spin will not hurt.

It's a lucky man who needs both higher launch and higher spin. Just add a couple more degrees of loft, instant distance gain and probably a bit easier to hit the ball straight to boot. Nice!

[clinkinfo]

16 hours ago, ALIF said:

But if your ball speed is only 134,  1600 spin is probably not going to be optimal no matter what your launch angle is.  So generally speaking with that low of a ball speed even with a decent launch angle I think something at least 2200 Would be way better.

 

4 hours ago, North Butte said:

It's a lucky man who needs both higher launch and higher spin. Just add a couple more degrees of loft, instant distance gain and probably a bit easier to hit the ball straight to boot. Nice!

 

 

Look at the chart Howard_jones posted in.  It looks like for that ball speed a launch angle of 16 or 17 degrees and a spin rate of 1500 provides maximum driver distance.  His numbers are very close to maxed out.

 

The risk in that setup is what happens with miss-hits when the spin drops.  That's why we tend to look for more spin on good center shots, so there's some room for the spin to tail off on mishits, not really because 2000 itself gives the optimal distance.

Edited May 27, 2023 by clinkinfo

[barnum1]

2 minutes ago, clinkinfo said:

 

 

 

Look at the chart Howard_jones posted in.  It looks like for that ball speed a launch angle of 16 or 17 degrees and a spin rate of 1500 provides maximum driver distance.  His numbers are very close to maxed out.

Yes, high total distance, but not much carry. I.e. a lot of roll. 

Very informative table. 

[clinkinfo]

4 minutes ago, barnum1 said:

Yes, high total distance, but not much carry. I.e. a lot of roll. 

Very informative table. 

 

What combination gives you more than 217.7 yards of carry like 17/1500?

 

And even looking at 14 degrees, if he raises his spin to 2250, he gains less than 2 yards of carry, and losses 10 yards of total distance.  That's not a tradeoff I'd want to give.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by clinkinfo

[barnum1]

1 minute ago, clinkinfo said:

 

What combination gives you more than 217.7 yards of carry like 17/1500?

 

Sorry, you're right. 

I was looking at LA 14.

[clinkinfo]

16 minutes ago, barnum1 said:

Sorry, you're right. 

I was looking at LA 14.

 

 

No worries.  You have pretty darn awesome numbers!  I'd be very happy with those, and if you're not having any on-course issues, play them because you're really maximizing distance.  

 

The only potential issue, and what we kinda learned after the SLDR, is that when we optimize the launch for "center" strikes, and get those ideal numbers from the middle, we run the potential risk of having some miss-hits that can really fly weird (because their spin can drop to like 1200-1000, which isn't enough).  

 

But in your situation is so easy to fix, because we'd just click the adapter up a tiny bit (raise the loft) and you'd get a slightly higher launch and a little more spin out of the center, and thus protect yourself on the miss-hits.  You're in a great place!

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by clinkinfo