Do golfers really understand the trade-off when playing jacked irons?

[jjfcpa]

Most higher handicap golfers understand this, but I wonder if the average amateur golfer understands the trade-off when playing irons with stronger lofts.

 

Sure, manufacturers have done an admirable job making them have a higher apex and better landing angles, but there are still trade-offs that most amateurs can't really take advantage of.  I've been a victim of the hype and bought into the "higher, longer, straighter" BS that you seen in just about everyone OEM's advertising.

 

I've compared lots of different brands and generally, my slower swing speed will not result in "higher, longer, straighter".  What does make the ball "higher, longer, straighter" is practice, practice, practice.  

 

I've yet to find a set of irons that is 10 yards longer and goes straighter than the irons I'm playing.  And that includes all the big OEM's.  Are they perhaps a little easier to hit... sure... but unless you understand the basic fundamentals of the golf swing, your contact won't be any better and while you may see a yard or two more distance, it may not be as high or as straight as you want it to be.  There are trade-offs.

 

I'm 75 years old and work on my fitness daily, which includes stretching.  And while I've changed clubs 5 or 6 times in the last few years, the only thing that's made any real difference is my fitness and the time I spend at the driving range and putting green.  

 

If you truly want to gain some yardage and hit the ball straighter and lower your score... take some lessons and then practice, practice, practice, what they teach you.  There are no trade-offs when you follow that advice.

[North Butte]

[impolite comment withdrawn]

Edited May 27, 2023 by North Butte

[ChipNRun]

2 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

If you truly want to gain some yardage and hit the ball straighter and lower your score... take some lessons and then practice, practice, practice, what they teach you.  There are no trade-offs when you follow that advice.

 

I disagree. Golf is a cyborg activity - it combines the golfer's swing and the golfer's clubs into one system, designed to advance the ball.

 

Sorry, but if you "take some lessons, and practice, practice, practice..." this won't help much if you have clubs that don't fit your game. And, irons with higher lofts may fly farther for many golfers because the loft/head design helps launch the ball better.

 

jjfcpa talks about too strong lofts,  but makes no mention of shafts. Finding shafts that are the proper weight for a golfer have a big influence on how the ball flies.

 

In multiple fittings for the Mavrik iron family, I found some curious things: I tested the standard Mavrik and Mavrik Max irons using the same graphite PX Catalyst 5.5 regular shaft,  about 75 grams.

 

The standard Mavrik had a 27* 7i, the Max a 30* 7i. To my surprise, I launched the Max higher and a club longer. The key is to find the best  {head + shaft combo} for your swing.

 

To improve your golf game, go cyborg! ⛳

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by ChipNRun
Accidentally hit save prematurely.

[bekgolf]

I wish there was an industry wide standard for loft per iron number but there isn't.  With that said I'm getting along fine with the current loft jacked irons.  I am a naturally high ball hitter so maybe it just doesn't affect me like it does others? 

 

IMO the cup face, hollow body, precision tungsten weighting modern irons are a step up in club evolution.  Most noticeable to me is how forgiving a non center strike is, especially a toe miss.

[jjfcpa]

8 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

 

I disagree. Golf is a cyborg activity - it combines the golfer's swing and the golfer's clubs into one system, designed to advance the ball.

 

Sorry, but if you "take some lessons, and practice, practice, practice..." this won't help much if you have clubs that don't fit your game.

 

jjfcpa talks about too strong lofts,  but makes no mention of shafts. Finding shafts that are the proper weight for a golfer have a big influence on how the ball flies.

 

In multiple fittings for the Mavrik iron family, I found some curious things: I tested the standard Mavrik and Mavrik Max irons using the same graphite PX Catalyst 5.5 regular shaft,  about 75 grams.

 

The standard Mavrik had a 27* 7i, the Max a 30* 7i. To my surprise, I launched the Max higher and a club longer. The key is to find the best  {head + shaft combo} for your swing.

 

To improve your golf game, go cyborg! ⛳

 

 

 

While I agree with what you stated, I think that you need to have a basic understanding of swing mechanics and be somewhat well trained in executing it before it will do any good to make the kind of selections you are talking about.  I do think that the shaft is just as important as the head on the club, but perhaps not as much as you might think.  Some golfers, admittedly few of them, are shaft

agnostic, meaning that they can play any shaft and it won't affect their game.  In my particular case, as long as it's a senior shaft, I can play it.  I've been custom fit with some very expensive shafts and subsequently went with a senior graphite shaft in a Titleist driver that performs much better than the much more expensive fitted shaft.  

 

There's no substitute for fitted equipment, especially after you have an understanding of their benefit, but I've seen too many players who think that the right equipment is the answer to their woes.  It doesn't work that way and there is no substitute for putting in some practice time. 

[North Butte]

The premise of the thread is "jacked lofts" make golf harder for golfers. Are you guy claiming that an ill-fitted set of irons be well fitted if someone simply filed off the "7" and stamped it 5", the "8" became "6" and so forth to make the sole numbers match a set of irons from 1980? 

[Phabs]

Don’t know but pulling a 6 iron when everyone is hitting a 4 makes me feel like way more of a man. Waddling to and from the cart to the tee gets tiring. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Phabs

[ChipNRun]

4 minutes ago, Phabs said:

Don’t know but pulling a 6 iron when everyone is hitting a 4 makes me feel like way more of a man. 

 

Then, 6-iron man gets upset at 19th hole when he finds out I won the skin with my 4H shot.

[Phabs]

1 minute ago, ChipNRun said:

 

Then, 6-iron man gets upset at 19th hole when he finds out I won the skin with my 4H shot.

Then I just go bend my 7i 6* strong.  It’s a vicious circle 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Phabs

[mukster]

Quite honestly, the only thing that I used to dislike about “jacked irons“ is when someone tells me how they hit their nine iron past my eight iron, although his nine iron is stronger lofted than my eight.

 

Now I have a fun time calling them out.

 

Otherwise, unless we all play traditionally lofted irons with a pitching wedge of 48° or higher, I feel there is nothing more to say about this.

 

[North Butte]

7 minutes ago, mukster said:

Otherwise, unless we all play traditionally lofted irons with a pitching wedge of 48° or higher, I feel there is nothing more to say about this.

 

My knowledge of golf only goes back 30 years or so but I can recall when pitching wedges were 50 degrees or even occasionally weaker (I think I owned a set with a 51-degree PW once). So even that 48-degree PW is more like an early stage of "jacked" that it is traditional!

[blades_are_life]

53 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

I wish there was an industry wide standard for loft per iron number but there isn't.  With that said I'm getting along fine with the current loft jacked irons.  I am a naturally high ball hitter so maybe it just doesn't affect me like it does others? 

 

IMO the cup face, hollow body, precision tungsten weighting modern irons are a step up in club evolution.  Most noticeable to me is how forgiving a non center strike is, especially a toe miss.

I disagree philosophically in that they feel awful compared to good solid body forged irons, but they definitely feel like an advancement when compared to the models in their product class from 20 years ago.

[bekgolf]

Just now, blades_are_life said:

I disagree philosophically in that they feel awful compared to good solid body forged irons, but they definitely feel like an advancement when compared to the models in their product class from 20 years ago.

 

I wasn't comparing them to forged blades.

[blades_are_life]

Just now, bekgolf said:

 

I wasn't comparing them to forged blades.

I thought that might be the case which is why I wrote the second part.

[JAM01]

None of this matters to me. My goal is to navigate the course with 14 or less weapons scoring the lowest score possible. If my clubs are weak, retro, power, all hybrids, all blades, mashies, niblicks or Persimmon doesn’t matter. But my driver shaft must be Velocore, because the non Velocore are fake. Jk. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by JAM01

[bcjim]

48 minutes ago, Phabs said:

Don’t know but pulling a 6 iron when everyone is hitting a 4 makes me feel like way more of a man. 

I'm just "flighting" my 4-iron. Bro.

[Jeri6gt]

I bought T100S, I’m pretty happy with them, I don’t particularly care

what someone else uses.  

As long as I have proper gapping between clubs, I’m good.

 

To each his own.

[67VIP]

A lot of them don’t even know what clubs they have in the bag to start with. As an example:

 

Dufus #1 says he’d like to get fit for new irons…”so what are you currently playing?” I don’t know…my wife got them for me three years ago. “Are they Taylormade, Callaway, Titleist….?”

Uh, I think they’re green…🤦‍♂️

 

”Ok what’s your average score and how far do you usually hit a 7 iron?”

Uh, I don’t always keep score and I don’t know how far I hit a seven iron…🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

 

”Ohhh kayyy, when you hit the ball with an iron does it go relatively straight or curve right or left?” It goes straight…🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

 

Then you get them on the launch monitor and they hit five balls at seven  different speeds in twelve different directions.  Yo bartender…can you make that martini a double please, with an aspirin chaser. 🤣🤣🤣

Edited May 28, 2023 by 67VIP

[NoTalentLefty]

5 minutes ago, Jeri6gt said:

I bought T100S, I’m pretty happy with them, I don’t particularly care

what someone else uses.  

As long as I have proper gapping between clubs, I’m good.

 

To each his own.

Gapping is why I use the stronger lofted clubs. I can’t find 5 degree gaps in the top end from the 8 thru gap that I need to get at least 10 yards of separation. Don’t kid myself about what stamped on the bottom. When I started a Pitching Wedge was 50 degrees or more. So this post, in my opinion, is full of speculation on the whys of  distance irons. 

[realmfg]

[PJE]

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by PJE

[puttingmatt]

Most, iron lofts are jacked, when compared to irons from  5 to 10 years ago.

[ShortGolfer]

The numbers on my new XXIO 12s work great for me.

I start off with driver.  Then I hit my 16.5* 3HL or 22* 5iron for distance. 

Middle irons are 28* 7 and 37* 9.  Wedges are  48* AW and 56* SW.  

I've added a 52/10 gap wedge for 4* gaps.  Lob wedges are 58/6 and 60/12 lob wedges.

 

Getting fitted for shafts helped my game in that I could now hit and hold tiny greens from 100 yards with cheap golf balls as the descent angle was steep enough.

I just got all my clubs adjusted for lie angle to take advantage of the consistency of my swing.  

I'm never going to hit the ball far, as I'm too small and too old.  But my play gets better as I get close to the green.  

The length of my 7 iron is just 35.5 inches.  Really short but it works for me.

Edited May 28, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[mantan]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

My knowledge of golf only goes back 30 years or so but I can recall when pitching wedges were 50 degrees or even occasionally weaker (I think I owned a set with a 51-degree PW once). So even that 48-degree PW is more like an early stage of "jacked" that it is traditional!

 

 

I started playing golf in the early 90s. I remember an article back then about 'jacked lofts' in the King Cobra II Overvized irons back then. 

 

Buy the end of the 90s irons like the Cleveland TA5s, Mizuno MX-20s and Callaway X-12's all had 45/46* pitching wedges.

 

A lot of sets like the new G430s come with 2 'gap' wedges. The bigger issue to me is you end up having to buy more wedges at the end of the bag...or order a set like a 6-Gap2 to equal what used to be a standard set.

 

I know the day will come some time, but right now I'm still on the sunny side of the ledger with Father Time. I can legit say, I don't want/need more distance with my irons.  But probably because my iron distance/ballflight is pretty good for my age/handicap.

[Fuscinator]

I'm probably more a candidate for same length shafts than a traditional set, but I can't do it, so jacked lofts down to 6iron, then going to crazy lofted fairway woods works pretty well for me.

[realmfg]

I never get these debates.  It all comes down to the lofts, who cares about what number is stamped on the club.  It's an ego thing.  Also, people bring up having to buy more wedges.... Again, that stamped PW is really a 41* 9iron and the G is a 46* PW.  

[MattM97]

Who really cares, just know what your clubs go distance wise. If your 7i goes 120 yards or 200 yards use it for that distance it goes and the shot you need to hit. 

 

If we're having a pissing contest on the tee box hit the gym.

[ZipinZ]

Some interesting comments here.

 

I understand exactly what the trade-offs were. I was custom fit into my new jacked up G430 irons, my cap has gone down 2.5 points, broke 80 ... 6 of the last 13 rounds, I got my distance back love the higher ball flight, ball hits the green & holds, it's made the game more fun again. Yes, I practice it helps & I could use some putting lessons my goal this year is to break par with my jacked up Ping G430's.

 

D.

[boggyman]

3 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

 

I disagree. Golf is a cyborg activity - it combines the golfer's swing and the golfer's clubs into one system, designed to advance the ball.

 

Sorry, but if you "take some lessons, and practice, practice, practice..." this won't help much if you have clubs that don't fit your game. And, irons with higher lofts may fly farther for many golfers because the loft/head design helps launch the ball better.

 

jjfcpa talks about too strong lofts,  but makes no mention of shafts. Finding shafts that are the proper weight for a golfer have a big influence on how the ball flies.

 

In multiple fittings for the Mavrik iron family, I found some curious things: I tested the standard Mavrik and Mavrik Max irons using the same graphite PX Catalyst 5.5 regular shaft,  about 75 grams.

 

The standard Mavrik had a 27* 7i, the Max a 30* 7i. To my surprise, I launched the Max higher and a club longer. The key is to find the best  {head + shaft combo} for your swing.

 

To improve your golf game, go cyborg! ⛳

 

27* 7 iron! Sweet Jesus,my 5 iron is 30*. As for the MAX, is there more weight low and back as well. Might help, along with the shaft, as to why it launched higher. At 30*,3 more degrees,shouldn’t it by nature launch higher anyway? 

[bekgolf]

2 minutes ago, boggyman said:

27* 7 iron! Sweet Jesus,my 5 iron is 30*. As for the MAX, is there more weight low and back as well. Might help, along with the shaft, as to why it launched higher. At 30*,3 more degrees,shouldn’t it by nature launch higher anyway? 

 

How old are you?

 

Lol.