What to tell the fitter?

[jjfcpa]

I thought this would be an interesting topic.

 

I've had 3 fittings and I've made the mistake of telling one fitter what I wanted and that completely backfired.  I made the mistake of saying I just wanted more distance... well, I got more distance but dispersion and spin were totally unacceptable.  I would never do that again, and unfortunately, the fitter didn't offer any other advice.

 

Most new golfers probably don't know what to say so they just let the fitter decide what works best for them.  Is that a mistake?  I guess it depends on the fitter and their analysis of the skill level of the player.  So are there some basic questions that the fitter should start with I assume... such as, how long have you been playing golf?  How often do you play golf?  How serious are you about improving your golf game, in other words, are you just going to play a few times a month or do you intend to put in some practice time to improve your skills?  I honestly can't remember if I was asked these questions.

 

So, what should new golfers be prepared to tell the fitter, and what should they expect in return?

 

 

[jda]

I would not tell them anything, unless it is general goals like higher ball flight, forgiveness for toe or heel hits, etc.

 

Most are just number readers, shaft swappers and club handers anymore.  There are some good ones, so my apologies to them... and these folks can be unreal.  Get fit on a tour truck or van if they come to town.

 

The best don't just try and sell you stock clubs.  Weight can matter a lot and nearly nobody outside of the elite fitters will mention this.  So can shaft length for different clubs.  There is a REAL pro here in Denver that I just happened upon by accident and once he saw my hand grip, the wanted me to try a different club grip for just my driver and it was magic.  He also saw my lead tape, looked at my swing and removed it, put it more on the toe and it was magic too.  He wanted to add more weight, which we did 20g more and I increased ball speed by 4mph with the same impact - I have like 55g total in the driver with amazing results and while I always like heavy clubs, this was a great fine tune.  He wanted to lengthen my 52 and 56 degree shaft 1 inch and keep the 60 the same since I play them differently.  The bottom line is that he knew about swings and clubs from driver to a flop and could immediately tell about minor tweaks.

 

Find somebody who is elite - ask around, make an appointment and wait.  Otherwise, you need to know what you really are looking for and just let the fitter read the numbers and change out shafts and hand you different heads while you make the decisions.  Either way, you have to have a somewhat reasonably repeatable swing to get much out of this, but anybody can put high launch shafts in big heads for beginners.

 

Ball speed > swing speed.  Spin both back and side.  Knowing what you are before you go into a fitting is a good idea.  Rent or borrow a device if you can.

[RogerinNewZealand]

Total weight now of driver? Eg 325 grams and at , 44.5 inches?

[MattM97]

Most fitters should do a basic rundown of the person there. What's your handicap? What are your goals with this fitting? Working with a coach? How often do you play? Future plans? Etc. 

 

This could help depending on the fitter. Could give someone a setup that will last for their 5-10 rounds a year. Others may need a setup that will go with them as they improve to a certain point.

 

It's a back and forth especially if you have no prior experience with the fitter or company. 

 

People need to speak up and ask questions during the fit. Not to question the fitter themselves just see what they're doing. Most will be happy to say it's for x, y or z unless they have an ego. 

 

End of the fit if not happy with the outcome no need to buy, move on maybe fit again. Some say waste of money just chalk it up as an experience in the game. Like a bad round of golf get over it and onto the next one. 

[North Butte]

So if you went to a swing coach, would you not tell him why you're there? Wouldn't you want discuss some specific goals or issues you want to work with him to address? Or would you just say, "Hi coach, make me a better golfer".

 

I'd think an initial conversation with a club fitter is directly analogous. I guess some people might walk in and say, "Build me some better clubs" but that would seem an unusual agenda. 

[phizzy30]

I've been fitted countless times over the years.  The good ones will ask you what your goals are, handicap, how the clubs feel and will of course look at the numbers and recommend clubs based off that.  Just remember that you're paying for their time so be sure to ask as many questions as you feel necessary. 

[hammergolf]

3 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

I thought this would be an interesting topic.

 

I've had 3 fittings and I've made the mistake of telling one fitter what I wanted and that completely backfired.  I made the mistake of saying I just wanted more distance... well, I got more distance but dispersion and spin were totally unacceptable.  I would never do that again, and unfortunately, the fitter didn't offer any other advice.

 

Most new golfers probably don't know what to say so they just let the fitter decide what works best for them.  Is that a mistake?  I guess it depends on the fitter and their analysis of the skill level of the player.  So are there some basic questions that the fitter should start with I assume... such as, how long have you been playing golf?  How often do you play golf?  How serious are you about improving your golf game, in other words, are you just going to play a few times a month or do you intend to put in some practice time to improve your skills?  I honestly can't remember if I was asked these questions.

 

So, what should new golfers be prepared to tell the fitter, and what should they expect in return?

 

 

My first thing to tell the fitter would be to tell him I want to fit into the clubs that decrease my dispersion and make my bad shots more manageable. Most players focus on distance. Imho this is a mistake, and I say that for 2 reasons:

 

1 Since the majority of fittings are done inside and you’re hitting lots of balls in fast repetition, we all tend to swing different than we do on the course. If someone is chasing distance generally they are going to swing harder, then more harder, then even harder because there is no consequence for your foul balls.

 

2 Just because a club goes go further it doesn’t mean it will help you play better golf. Generally, the club you hit the furthest will also not be the most accurate. Chasing distance is only good if it’s effective. If you hit a certain driver/shaft combo 15yds further than others, but the misses are unplayable, it does you no good. If you hit a 7 iron 20yds further, but you can’t stop it on the green, once again it does you no good.

 

For a fitting to truly be better, no need clubs that have THE BEST MISSES. For irons, that is front to back dispersion, as well as left/right pattern. IF you pick up some distance, great. But if you tighten your shot pattern by 30%, you’re going to play better golf. 

[bluedot]

1. Have a clear idea of what you want to achieve. Fwiw, I think it’s perfectly ok for that to be distance; a good fitter will know that dispersion has to be accounted for, too. 

2. Tell the fitter what you want, but also make it clear that you are willing to pay the fee and go thru the process to find out that what you already have is the best option for you.

3. Regardless of what you said in #1 above, ASK QUESTIONS!  Ask the fitter why he’s changing shafts, or lofts, or brands, etc.  If he’s good he’ll be telling you anyway, but if not, ASK, which imo is more important that what you tell him anyway.

[Springsteennut]

Not this goes for everyone. If you have any physical or health problems that affect your swing let them know. I do and both fitters said it was very helpful when they did my fittings

[jjfcpa]

1 hour ago, hammergolf said:

My first thing to tell the fitter would be to tell him I want to fit into the clubs that decrease my dispersion and make my bad shots more manageable. Most players focus on distance. Imho this is a mistake, and I say that for 2 reasons:

 

1 Since the majority of fittings are done inside and you’re hitting lots of balls in fast repetition, we all tend to swing different than we do on the course. If someone is chasing distance generally they are going to swing harder, then more harder, then even harder because there is no consequence for your foul balls.

 

2 Just because a club goes go further it doesn’t mean it will help you play better golf. Generally, the club you hit the furthest will also not be the most accurate. Chasing distance is only good if it’s effective. If you hit a certain driver/shaft combo 15yds further than others, but the misses are unplayable, it does you no good. If you hit a 7 iron 20yds further, but you can’t stop it on the green, once again it does you no good.

 

For a fitting to truly be better, no need clubs that have THE BEST MISSES. For irons, that is front to back dispersion, as well as left/right pattern. IF you pick up some distance, great. But if you tighten your shot pattern by 30%, you’re going to play better golf. 

 

I think you are 100% correct.

[Moonlightgrm]

5 hours ago, jda said:

I would not tell them anything, unless it is general goals like higher ball flight, forgiveness for toe or heel hits, etc.

 

Most are just number readers, shaft swappers and club handers anymore.  There are some good ones, so my apologies to them... and these folks can be unreal.  Get fit on a tour truck or van if they come to town.

 

The best don't just try and sell you stock clubs.  Weight can matter a lot and nearly nobody outside of the elite fitters will mention this.  So can shaft length for different clubs.  There is a REAL pro here in Denver that I just happened upon by accident and once he saw my hand grip, the wanted me to try a different club grip for just my driver and it was magic.  He also saw my lead tape, looked at my swing and removed it, put it more on the toe and it was magic too.  He wanted to add more weight, which we did 20g more and I increased ball speed by 4mph with the same impact - I have like 55g total in the driver with amazing results and while I always like heavy clubs, this was a great fine tune.  He wanted to lengthen my 52 and 56 degree shaft 1 inch and keep the 60 the same since I play them differently.  The bottom line is that he knew about swings and clubs from driver to a flop and could immediately tell about minor tweaks.

 

Find somebody who is elite - ask around, make an appointment and wait.  Otherwise, you need to know what you really are looking for and just let the fitter read the numbers and change out shafts and hand you different heads while you make the decisions.  Either way, you have to have a somewhat reasonably repeatable swing to get much out of this, but anybody can put high launch shafts in big heads for beginners.

 

Ball speed > swing speed.  Spin both back and side.  Knowing what you are before you go into a fitting is a good idea.  Rent or borrow a device if you can.

Bingo! Our club was hosting an LPGA Tour event in 2004 and the Titleist Tour Van was in attendance to take care of the ladies needs. I was fortunate to set up a fitting with the two guys representing Titleist. I’ve never had a fitting before or since that was so detailed and informative. To this day, I lean towards their recommendations of a 44.5” driver and slightly heavier shafts in my irons. My driver swing speed has dropped from 109 mph to 98 mph now that I am 65-years old, but at a recent fitting for my T200 irons, my numbers and results were better with heavier shafts. In my opinion, find a Tour Van or a knowledgeable professional club fitter with a track record of numerous success stories.

[bnperrone]

I do fittings with people who know my swing and preferences very well. Still, the outcome I’m hoping for is always the #1 topic of discussion. 
 

Also, just something to consider is whether the fit holds up as you tire out. For me a perfect fitting is when we get it dialed in and keep making swings (not necessarily only with that club) until my swing is getting tired. I want to make sure I can hit that club when everything isn’t perfect. I’m not a long drive guy looking for 3 perfect swings total. 

[maximusppl]

Be open minded. I had a iron fitting this year just to see if there was anything that could beat out my T100S combo I played with last year. I was looking for similar performance but a tad more forgiveness. I was really looking forward to the ping i230 and really wanted them to work, but they didnt. There were 2 clubs that I was stupidly impressed with and I came out ordering the best of the 2 - 1) the 2023 Cobra King Tour, which was the leader in feel, and performance, and 2) the new p770 which was a tad more forgiving than the Cobra. I didnt think the Cobra were gonna be this good, but they were. Be open minded would be my suggestion. If the fitter is good, they will be invested in making sure that you get a combo that works for you. 

[Stuart_G]

18 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

I thought this would be an interesting topic.

 

I've had 3 fittings and I've made the mistake of telling one fitter what I wanted and that completely backfired.  I made the mistake of saying I just wanted more distance... well, I got more distance but dispersion and spin were totally unacceptable.  I would never do that again, and unfortunately, the fitter didn't offer any other advice.

 

Most new golfers probably don't know what to say so they just let the fitter decide what works best for them.  Is that a mistake?

 

 

A good fitter will be engaging with the customer and make an effort to get all the information they need to help.  The fitter should not expect the customer to know what they need and required them to volunteer that information at the start of the fitting.    Not a comprehensive list but here are some examples: Skill level, if they are working with a pro on their swing, miss tendencies, past equipment history, any problems they want to address - even any past experiences with other fitters.

 

A good fitter will also inform the customer of any trade offs to allow them to make an informed choice when it comes to balancing the pro's and cons of each goal.

 

The other mistake customers might make during a fitting is not be open and trust their own sense of feel and provide that kind of feedback during the fitting.  A good fitter should ask about feel and should never be dismissive about the feedback the customer gives.  And of course, not going in with an open mind.

 

Unfortunately - 95% (probably more) of people calling themselves "fitters" don't really meet that description.  So the real trick is finding the small percentage of people that really deserve that title.   If you do that -  all these questions on what to do during a fitting really become moot points.

 

 

The other option - is to realize you're just working with some salesperson and is to learn as much about fitting here as you can and go use them to give you access to the equipment and realize that the responsibility is more on you as to how well the fitting works out.   Not a great options - but for some it's the only way to ensure a good result.

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Stuart_G

[jda]

On 6/4/2023 at 2:32 PM, RogerinNewZealand said:

Total weight now of driver? Eg 325 grams and at , 44.5 inches?

 

This got me wondering, so I weighed it.  384 with the grip.  I also use a Tensei Orange 1K X 70g that can keep that weight stable.  There is a bunch of tape under the grip, too.

 

I cannot swing 126-128 anymore, but I can swing 112-114 with either all of this weight or a stock club.  The more mass has my smash at 1.48 to 1.53 (with Garmin, so who knows) and it keeps me under control with good mechanics.  I attached a readout from my Garmin when I was swinging less MPH at 107 - 291 carry and 310 total with a 1.47 smash .  I average 295 to 325 on most shots all at 112-114 swing speed now with ball speed at about 167-172.

 

Not too many fitters would even think about this, but I believe that a good fitter should instantly see how your swing reacts to more weight to increase mass behind the ball - some will do well and some will not.  In baseball, folks always see how much weight that they can swing and still be on time.

 

My point is that weight should be one of the first things that experienced players add when they start to lose SS.  They might find that they are still strong even if their fast twitch is not what it was.

 

I asked a few of the scratchy guys this morning and both of them said that the guy that they take lessons from is the best to ask about club changes - ie, he tells them to get long irons that launch a bit higher from 3-5 and leave the rest alone, so they just go to a number reader and work on that.  This might be a good approach if you cannot find a good fitter.

 

[RogerinNewZealand]

Thanks for indepth answers and that huge weight pic on the scales! This will mistify a few folks. Play Your Best.👍

[jda]

There is more to fitting that weight, but adding weight until ball speed stalls and/or contact starts to suck should be part of any good fitting.  Other professions that strike things for a living do not use light instruments to swing them faster- ala no baseball player uses a little league weight bat or those dudes that drove railroad spikes did not swing tack hammers as fast as possible.  There is a optimum point, for sure, so find it...

 

BTW - that fitter told me that the weight location change and the added amount might decrease my loft and to raise it .75 if it did.  He was absolutely right... like he could see the future.

[Cmiles]

Always seems like there is something for a fitter to tweak!

[redlegged]

In my experience, you should be able to tell within the first few minutes whether they are an actual professional fitter or a shaft swapper. A good fitter will ask you questions and encourage you to ask questions and provide feedback. On the other hand, a shaft swapper will put you in your place for asking questions and remind you they are the “professional.” 
 

I would gladly pay double for a good fitter. Unfortunately, they don’t exist in my area, so I started scouring through the doldrums of golfwrx and tinkering. 

[Louis_Posture]

On 6/4/2023 at 10:04 AM, jjfcpa said:

 

 

So, what should new golfers be prepared to tell the fitter, and what should they expect in return?

 

 

 

By "new golfers" I assume you mean a player new to the game and, or a beginner.

For this player I suggest visiting a conveniently located driving range or golf course and hiring an instructor who is competent at teaching address position and swing technique basic fundamentals. After that, practice and more practice.

"Fitting" is a marketing strategy for fitters and equipment sellers to make money; it is irrelevant to an amateur player , especially a beginner, actually improving his or her game. 

[ChipNRun]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:02 AM, Stuart_G said:

Unfortunately - 95% (probably more) of people calling themselves "fitters" don't really meet that description.  So the real trick is finding the small percentage of people that really deserve that title.   If you do that -  all these questions on what to do during a fitting really become moot points.

 

11 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

For this player I suggest visiting a conveniently located driving range or golf course and hiring an instructor who is competent at teaching address position and swing technique basic fundamentals.

 

The best total golf experiences I have had involves an instructor who was also a skilled fitter. The first guy started at a local golf shop, but then relocated some 50 miles to the west. He gave me several lessons when I was revamping my swing in my mid-50s, and gave me an excellent driver fitting for a big stick I used for five years. And, he gave a couple of free short-game clinics a year for his students.

 

The second was another local. Gave lessons - could even handle golfers who had a natural Moe Norman approach to the swing. His goal: help tease out the swing you had inside you. Also was excellent fitter and clubsmith. He likewise gave me diagnostic fittings: I had a driver, what were the best settings for me to use. Solution: For a $40 fitting, add 1.5* loft and close hosel setting to add 20 yards to drives. Much better money spent than $700 at Club Champion.

11 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

"Fitting" is a marketing strategy for fitters and equipment sellers to make money; it is irrelevant to an amateur player

 

Au contraire! In case of first guy, I was playing irons with Dynalite (high-launch cousin of DGs) S300 (about 120 grams). Put me in Callaways with lighter shafts, and my distance yardstick was suddenly much more consistent.

 

Second guy: In redoing my fairways, I was only able to find a women's Rogue 7W with a stock light Quaranta shaft. I asked him to tip the shaft an inch to stiffen, and then lengthen it. When I came to get it, the Rogue 7W had a PX EvenFlow Green 5.5R shaft in it. He said the tip-and-lengthen I had suggested would have destroyed the Quaranta shaft balance.

 

And, he only charged me $25 for a reglue and grip. "That EvenFlow was just laying around the shop," he said. "Might as well use it."

 

Reality check: for those of us who don't always break 90, we need clubs that won't hurt our game. A decent fitter can help you find these.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by ChipNRun
Clean up syntax.

[Stuart_G]

28 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

Reality check: for those of us who don't always break 90, we need clubs that won't hurt our game. A decent fitter can help you find these.

 

Yes.  The mid to mid-high handicappers tend to benefit more from a good fitting than the better players.   Bigger flaws in the mechanics tend to be more sensitive to equipment changes and they don't have the skill to either compensate and/or adapter for a poor fit (like the better players do) nor are they able to gravitate/navigate to better fitting equipment choices on their own when buying without the help of a good fitter.

[ShortGolfer]

I told my fitter that I was looking for clubs to play on short courses from forward tees.  Most importantly be able to hit and hold small greens.

My natural shot is a high fade, so he was able to find a shaft that would help me do that.  That request may have been wishful thinking if my shot was a draw.

We did a lot of talking but not about club specifics.  I was intentionally oblivious to the makes and models I was trying, as I wanted the best clubs for me.

 

An iron fitting was really helpful in that I needed clubs that are 2 inches short and upright.  Well outside "normal."  

 If you can play normal clubs you may not benefit as much as someone who needs something different.

Edited June 8, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[jjfcpa]

19 hours ago, redlegged said:

In my experience, you should be able to tell within the first few minutes whether they are an actual professional fitter or a shaft swapper. A good fitter will ask you questions and encourage you to ask questions and provide feedback. On the other hand, a shaft swapper will put you in your place for asking questions and remind you they are the “professional.” 
 

I would gladly pay double for a good fitter. Unfortunately, they don’t exist in my area, so I started scouring through the doldrums of golfwrx and tinkering. 

 

I've had 3 fittings and that pretty much sums up the experience I've had.

[P.E.]

When it was time for me to acquire a new set of irons I found a club maker who built a 7 iron for me to play with after a long discussion about my goals and hitting several standard 7 iron models at his facility.

 

I played several rounds using the 7 iron he built and asked him to build another 7 iron with a 10 gram heavier version of the 1st shaft.

 

After playing several rounds with that 7 iron I asked him him to build another 7 iron with the same weight shaft but the tour version.

 

After playing with the 3 different shafts with the same head and build specs I settled on the regular heavier shaft for my set.

 

All the clubs I tried were built free of charge except for the one that went into the set I purchased.

 

Now he will make whatever adjustments to lie/loft that I want to try free of charge as well.

 

Overall a great experience.