PGA TOUR, DP World Tour and PIF announce newly formed commercial entity (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Holy Moses]

14 hours ago, idrive said:

This would make my day....  year?  

 

PGA Tour exploring Saudi LIV Golf replacement deal with Fenway Sports Group, billionaire investors (msn.com)

 

The only reason to make nice with the pif was to get the lawsuits out of the way.

 

Here's hoping liv gets shut out and investors that belong are partnered with instead.

 

Please, Please, Please, Please...

If a replacement deal ends up happening, then Monahan ran circles around LIV. LIV would probably be dead soon enough because the big sponsors only want to partner with LIV if they partner with the PGA Tour and now that partnership would be gone. I just wonder if Monahan is getting some serious pushback from the big sponsors and the star PGA Tour players who stayed who don't want to be associated with LIV and the PIF. With that said, it sounds like these other investors want to part of the investment group, not a separate investment. Either way, it's a fascinating development if true. 

 

In my opinion, the most notable point from all of the events that have occurred the last two years is that LIV and PIF said they wanted to do something unique in golf so they pump all this money into LIV and to the players, but they know this is unsustainable if they want to make a profit, so they have to force the PGA Tour's hand through lawsuits and partner back with them. LIV and PIF needs the PGA Tour, their TV contracts, and their links with sponsors to dig them out of their hole. It's embarrassing to LIV and the PIF that they wouldn't win by a better product, just suing another golf league out of money. 

[ALIF]

14 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I always figured LIV would end up getting bought by American investment groups, i think i posted that as a prediction like a week before the merger LOL.

 

But if the above happens, don't we still end up with LIV, except now we have an angry PIF would will just throw 500M at people for spite? And do the lawsuits still go away if a deal isn't struck?

Lawsuits are done. That’s already a done deal.

[Cactus Jack]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:45 PM, idrive said:

This would make my day....  year?  

 

PGA Tour exploring Saudi LIV Golf replacement deal with Fenway Sports Group, billionaire investors (msn.com)

 

The only reason to make nice with the pif was to get the lawsuits out of the way.

 

Here's hoping liv gets shut out and investors that belong are partnered with instead.

 

Please, Please, Please, Please...

 

Brooks aint the only one making money moves!

 

 

Every deal I've been part of is exclusive within the diligence & negotiation period. Solicited or un-solicited, there is no talking to additional parties...unless of course, that's been the plan the whole time. Hmmm...PGAT wants money, Big Biz wants money, SA has money, new for-profit entity established to facilitate exchange of money. Professional golf is at an embarrassingly disjointed inflection point...I hope they get this right. 

 

[bscinstnct]

8 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

Brooks aint the only one making money moves!

 

 

Every deal I've been part of is exclusive within the diligence & negotiation period. Solicited or un-solicited, there is no talking to additional parties...unless of course, that's been the plan the whole time. Hmmm...PGAT wants money, Big Biz wants money, SA has money, new for-profit entity established to facilitate exchange of money. Professional golf is at an embarrassingly disjointed inflection point...I hope they get this right. 

 

 

BK sell shirts 4 for $1.00 

 

🤣

 

It’s possible that the tour gets the best deal, money and control considered, actually from PIF

 

 I doubt American investors would agree to put up the amount of money PIF is, and not have control.

[Bye]

I saw the Koepka picture earlier today and am now completely confused about what is going on. 

[CDM]

3 hours ago, Bye said:

I saw the Koepka picture earlier today and am now completely confused about what is going on. 

 

Agreed.   I think the players on the PGAT are "scorned" so to speak over how all this has gone. Since it now appears this is all based on $$$ they seem to have no issues supporting Brooks and his LIV aspects now. 

 

[CDM]

Interesting.  Wonder if the $$$ is part of the issue based on the PGAT not coming to table on how much money is made.  

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/stefan-schauffele-says-xander-ryder-165459224.html 

[Dutch1008]

8 hours ago, Bye said:

I saw the Koepka picture earlier today and am now completely confused about what is going on. 

 

Pretty sure Koepka was just being cheeky and stomping down rumors that the US team room was fractured.  

[Dutch1008]

19 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

Every deal I've been part of is exclusive within the diligence & negotiation period. Solicited or un-solicited, there is no talking to additional parties...unless of course, that's been the plan the whole time.

 

This jumped out to me too. Exclusivity is stock language. I'd personally love the LIV deal to die and for the PGAT and DPWT to move forward w/ Fenway and Endeavor. I can't imagine anything funnier than listening to Phil and Greg scramble for answers when the PIF takes the credit card away. I just don't think it will be that easy. The old lawsuit dies but is replaced by breaching an exclusivity agreement? There are too many experienced dealmakers here, there has to be more to the story. 

[MtlJeff]

15 hours ago, CDM said:

Interesting.  Wonder if the $$$ is part of the issue based on the PGAT not coming to table on how much money is made.  

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/stefan-schauffele-says-xander-ryder-165459224.html 

 

I've posted this a few times already but the players no doubt are seeing what is going on in other sports, the NCAA, player "empowerment" in both the NBA and the NFL....and meanwhile they have basically a sole decision maker and a players council that even Horshel finally admitted was largely a kangaroo court. 

 

This is more than just the PGA tour as it's not just them involved in the Ryder Cup, but it's probably same basic premise and overall source of frustration. Players want to know where all the money is being made and spent

 

From the sounds of it the players are "paid" but in the way of contributions to the PGA's retirement fund which goes to everyone. I can see that rubbing some guys the wrong way

 

I can understand being loyal and patriotic, but another thing i've alluded to a few times....usually when someone hammers you with can't you be more loyal and patriotic , it's because they know they are giving you a bad deal . The Ryder Cup feels like NCAA sports, everyone's making money but not the players

[billyspan]

Players remain top heavy and fractured.  No meaningful movement will happen until there is a Player's Union and a CBA.  Follow in the MLB's footsteps fellas.  Players want to skip the steps...

[betarhoalphadelta]

19 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

This jumped out to me too. Exclusivity is stock language. I'd personally love the LIV deal to die and for the PGAT and DPWT to move forward w/ Fenway and Endeavor. I can't imagine anything funnier than listening to Phil and Greg scramble for answers when the PIF takes the credit card away. I just don't think it will be that easy. The old lawsuit dies but is replaced by breaching an exclusivity agreement? There are too many experienced dealmakers here, there has to be more to the story. 

 

I dunno, the text of the framework agreement was leaked here: https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1673506347541839872/photo/1

 

I didn't really see an exclusivity piece in there. I didn't read it *all* closely, but it said only that paragraphs 6, 9, and 10 were legally binding, and not a single one of those had anything to do with exclusivity. 

[Dutch1008]

6 hours ago, billyspan said:

Players remain top heavy and fractured.  No meaningful movement will happen until there is a Player's Union and a CBA.  Follow in the MLB's footsteps fellas.  Players want to skip the steps...

Who would the players be bargaining against? There is a very clear distinction between the owners and labor in the NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL. That doesn't really exist in golf. Are they bargaining internally w/ Jay Monahan on overhead allocation? Against each other? Somebody needs to coordinate 40+ events, secure corporate sponsors, and negotiate broadcast rights. Does Patrick Cantlay want to do that or practice chipping? Are they bargaining against the USGA, R&A, PGA of America, and Augusta National? 

[Chunkitgood]

15 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I've posted this a few times already but the players no doubt are seeing what is going on in other sports, the NCAA, player "empowerment" in both the NBA and the NFL....and meanwhile they have basically a sole decision maker and a players council that even Horshel finally admitted was largely a kangaroo court. 

 

This is more than just the PGA tour as it's not just them involved in the Ryder Cup, but it's probably same basic premise and overall source of frustration. Players want to know where all the money is being made and spent

 

From the sounds of it the players are "paid" but in the way of contributions to the PGA's retirement fund which goes to everyone. I can see that rubbing some guys the wrong way

 

I can understand being loyal and patriotic, but another thing i've alluded to a few times....usually when someone hammers you with can't you be more loyal and patriotic , it's because they know they are giving you a bad deal . The Ryder Cup feels like NCAA sports, everyone's making money but not the players

Except they are all millionaires.

 

I guess the idea of the Tour as a non-profit is too subtle for many to grasp.

[bcjim]

15 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I've posted this a few times already but the players no doubt are seeing what is going on in other sports, the NCAA, player "empowerment" in both the NBA and the NFL....and meanwhile they have basically a sole decision maker and a players council that even Horshel finally admitted was largely a kangaroo court. 

 

This is more than just the PGA tour as it's not just them involved in the Ryder Cup, but it's probably same basic premise and overall source of frustration. Players want to know where all the money is being made and spent

 

From the sounds of it the players are "paid" but in the way of contributions to the PGA's retirement fund which goes to everyone. I can see that rubbing some guys the wrong way

 

I can understand being loyal and patriotic, but another thing i've alluded to a few times....usually when someone hammers you with can't you be more loyal and patriotic , it's because they know they are giving you a bad deal . The Ryder Cup feels like NCAA sports, everyone's making money but not the players

I've probably posted that I disagree with it several times too.

 

The PGA Tour has exceeded any fiduciary duty it has to the players. It has made countless of them financially secure.

 

@Dutch1008 has additionally made excellent points. 

 

As for the RC, just offer it to the  first 12 willing to go on a 5*, free vacation.  Xander's dad wants him to sit out, Fine,  sit out.  Next. 

[leezer99]

Interesting development on the European Tour. Andrew Waterman (aka Yasir Al-Rumayyan) to play with DP World Tour CEO and Peter Uihlein. 

 

Saudi Arabia's PIF Boss Playing in DP World Tour Event With LIV Golfer and R&A CEO Martin Slumbers - Sports Illustrated Golf: News, Scores, Equipment, Instruction, Travel, Courses

[MtlJeff]

12 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

Except they are all millionaires.

 

I guess the idea of the Tour as a non-profit is too subtle for many to grasp.

 

They make a lot of money which i understand, but deciding who has "enough" money that they shouldn't get any more becomes a tough topic IMO

 

 

[black bnr32]

I thought the framework agreement gave PIF the first right of refusal in any future investment in the new entity.  Thereby very likely nullifying any other partnership for the time being.

[billyspan]

On 10/3/2023 at 3:16 PM, Dutch1008 said:

Who would the players be bargaining against? There is a very clear distinction between the owners and labor in the NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL. That doesn't really exist in golf. Are they bargaining internally w/ Jay Monahan on overhead allocation? Against each other? Somebody needs to coordinate 40+ events, secure corporate sponsors, and negotiate broadcast rights. Does Patrick Cantlay want to do that or practice chipping? Are they bargaining against the USGA, R&A, PGA of America, and Augusta National? 

I'm with you here @Dutch1008.  However, players are going to want guaranteed money in EVERY event they participate in.  That is a fundamental change, right?  Yes, I think at some point you will see players seek guarantees from the Tours and the organizations that organize the majors, President's Cup and Ryder Cup. 

[3whacker]

8 minutes ago, billyspan said:

I'm with you here @Dutch1008.  However, players are going to want guaranteed money in EVERY event they participate in.  That is a fundamental change, right?  Yes, I think at some point you will see players seek guarantees from the Tours and the organizations that organize the majors, President's Cup and Ryder Cup. 

I think you are going in the correct direction, but the Players /PGA Tour is going to have to negotiate with the PGA of America about compensation for the Ryder and President's Cups

[Cactus Jack]

DP World Tour extending an olive branch  to YAR and sponsors extending invites several LIV players to play at their upcoming event. Maybe folks have moved on?

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/38569858/peter-malnati-retracts-gimmick-dig-thompson-pga-tour

[bcjim]

9 hours ago, billyspan said:

I'm with you here @Dutch1008.  However, players are going to want guaranteed money in EVERY event they participate in.  That is a fundamental change, right?  Yes, I think at some point you will see players seek guarantees from the Tours and the organizations that organize the majors, President's Cup and Ryder Cup. 

There is a guaranteed purse at every major and tour event.

[betarhoalphadelta]

13 hours ago, black bnr32 said:

I thought the framework agreement gave PIF the first right of refusal in any future investment in the new entity.  Thereby very likely nullifying any other partnership for the time being.

 

The framework isn't an agreement. It's a formal way of saying "we're trying to work toward an agreement". 

 

The only parts of the framework agreement that were legally binding:

1. Ending litigation w/in 10 days of signing the framework.
2. Non-solicitation of players during the process of working towards an agreement (later stricken due to DOJ issues I believe).
3. Confidentiality and non-disparagement clauses. 
4. Time-limit of framework agreement that it ends at the end of 2023 unless parties mutually extend it. 

The right of first refusal in new investment was one of the ideas in the framework that they expected to include in an actual agreement, but it is in no way actually in effect at this time, nor legally binding in any way. 

[Dutch1008]

13 hours ago, billyspan said:

I'm with you here @Dutch1008.  However, players are going to want guaranteed money in EVERY event they participate in.  That is a fundamental change, right?  Yes, I think at some point you will see players seek guarantees from the Tours and the organizations that organize the majors, President's Cup and Ryder Cup. 

 

I think there is a reasonable solution here. Instead of $500k minimum that they implemented, just give every player a $20-25k minimum fee per tournament. That would work out similar to the $500k. Separately, allow players to accept additional appearance fees from sponsors. I think players will quickly learn that most of these tournaments are not as desperate as the Saudi and Emirates events.  

[CDM]

17 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

DP World Tour extending an olive branch  to YAR and sponsors extending invites several LIV players to play at their upcoming event. Maybe folks have moved on?

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/38569858/peter-malnati-retracts-gimmick-dig-thompson-pga-tour

 

The Alferd Dunhill cup this week has has a LIV player at the top right now (Peter Uihlein) and he was playing with "BIG AL" .  They played with the R&A Chief Executive Martin Slumbers and Jordan Smith.   

 

Based on TV play, it seemed like the two were getting on great.  

[ahenderX]

17 hours ago, CDM said:

 

The Alferd Dunhill cup this week has has a LIV player at the top right now (Peter Uihlein) and he was playing with "BIG AL" .  They played with the R&A Chief Executive Martin Slumbers and Jordan Smith.   

 

Based on TV play, it seemed like the two were getting on great.  

All the golf honchos folded like a cheap suit regarding LIV Golf.

[bscinstnct]

PGA Tour, Saudi PIF merger deadline could be pushed back over antitrust concerns, player demands, per report
 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/pga-tour-saudi-pif-merger-deadline-could-be-pushed-back-over-antitrust-concerns-player-demands-per-report/amp/

 

[billyspan]

On 10/4/2023 at 6:39 PM, 3whacker said:

I think you are going in the correct direction, but the Players /PGA Tour is going to have to negotiate with the PGA of America about compensation for the Ryder and President's Cups

 

I think this is what you were getting at @3whacker, but to clarify:

 

RYDER CUP -  jointly administered by the PGA of America and Ryder Cup Europe.    Ryder Cup Europe, which comprises representatives of the European Tour Group (60%), of the PGA of Great Britain and Ireland (20%) and the Confederation of Professional Golf (20%), owns the rights of the Ryder Cup when the competition is held in Europe. The European Tour Group is the Managing Partner and has prime responsibility for all matters concerning The European Team; the PGA of Great Britain and Ireland is the Founding Partner; and the Confederation of Professional Golf is responsible for the management of the Ryder Cup European Development Trust. The PGA of America owns the rights of the Ryder Cup when the competition is held in the United States. 

 

PRESIDENTS CUP - administered by the PGA Tour

 

[billyspan]

On 10/5/2023 at 3:47 AM, bcjim said:

There is a guaranteed purse at every major and tour event.

Guaranteed purse is NOT what the fellas want.  Essentially they are working towards guaranteed appearance fees in ANY tournament, event, exhibition, etc.

 

The boy's over at Fried Egg Golf recently had a solid podcast outlining Ryder Cup compensation vs NBA All-Star game.  VERY enlightening...

[bcjim]

2 hours ago, billyspan said:

Guaranteed purse is NOT what the fellas want.  Essentially they are working towards guaranteed appearance fees in ANY tournament, event, exhibition, etc.

 

The boy's over at Fried Egg Golf recently had a solid podcast outlining Ryder Cup compensation vs NBA All-Star game.  VERY enlightening...

I think they best not forget that a considerable appeal of golf is that they are playing for their dinner. People will be less interested if there is nothing on the line. Imagine if they were all on salary like the NBA.  Nobody would watch and the quality of the play would stink.  And there are plenty of golfers who will show up for a 10-20M purse without being offered a fee to appear.  NBA players can go out and entertain and its hard to tell their best effort from their mail ins.  Golf? If you don't come out ready, it can get ugly and embarrassing fast.