Junior golfer confidence

[Shanks2424]

Golfwrx junior forum got a question and I don't think there is a real answer to my question but here I go. My son Gavin has been working his butt off the last 10 days to get ready for drive chip and putt. he has made major improvements in his chipping and putting. But he just lacks the confidence in himself I feel. I keep telling him how much he has improved and that I am proud of him of the work he is putting in. But he just cant see it in himself. Any tips or suggestions.

[hangontight]

I think the confidence comes with the work...seeing it for themselves, which it sounds like he is doing.   That being said, they also have to be at a certain level of maturity to see that improvement in golf isnt a perfectly linear trajectory.   A good round of golf is still full of a lot of (mostly) mishit shots, setting a new low score is often followed with a rounds that don't meet the new expectation, etc.   With that, DCP is a very tough place for the confidence to play out...only 9 shots and very little room for error if you want to move on.  Hard to get a kid to understand that, but one skulled chip or OB drive and you usually are not moving on......which doesn't mean they are a bad golfer, nor is it a true & fair reflection of how he prepared, but it can be hard for them not to see it that way in DCP.

 

For my 12 YO son, it seems when his confidence is highest he is #1, playing a lot....and # 2, he is detached from any individual score and more paying attention to a few simple stats; for him its par 5 management (par or better), no 3 putts, 50-60% or better on up/downs.  Most kids TUNE OUT when you want to discuss stats, haha, but at his age and maturity these three simple things help him focus on evaluating his game and where to focus on practice.....which is tangible and in turn helps confidence, rather than just blindly practicing.   A third thing that comes to mind is learning better course management - his instructor focuses heavily on how to get around the course, managing misses (DECADE type stuff, but not too complex at his level)....Its made a big impact on his confidence to be able to get around the course when he doesnt have his A game(most rounds) and can still not let things get out of control.   Double bogeyshave decreased dramatically and the HIGH score dispersion has come down significantly.  

Edited July 18 by hangontight

[mrshinsa]

Just understand that DCP is not real golf, and what he does in those 9 shots is not a reflection of his game 

[Medson]

1 hour ago, Shanks2424 said:

Golfwrx junior forum got a question and I don't think there is a real answer to my question but here I go. My son Gavin has been working his butt off the last 10 days to get ready for drive chip and putt. he has made major improvements in his chipping and putting. But he just lacks the confidence in himself I feel. I keep telling him how much he has improved and that I am proud of him of the work he is putting in. But he just cant see it in himself. Any tips or suggestions.

If the goal is to be more confident, make sure he focuses on setup & pre-shot routine between now and DCP. 

 

Make sure he's confident that he can have a consistent setup & pre-shot routine no matter what. This is the only thing he can fully control. The second he takes the club back, it becomes a probability game, i.e. he has certain chance to hit good shots. 

[kekoa]

32 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

Just understand that DCP is not real golf, and what he does in those 9 shots is not a reflection of his game 

Bingo.  Exactly why my son stopped partaking a few years ago.  He thinks its a complete joke, but I really wanted to go to Augusta!! 🙂

 

As for confidence, I think it takes a lot of reps.  I'm not talking about 10 days here.  More like months and years of practicing almost every day.  Your son will learn to embrace it as he improves or possibly quit.  This is a good way to find out if your son is cut out for competitive golf as Juniors have gotten very very good.  

[Shanks2424]

I understand that he has just been working hard the last 9 days because he wants to do better its just in general with all the work he has been doing he cant see he is improving forget the DCP part of my original post. His other main goal is to make his high school golf team next year he is in 8th grade this year.

Edited July 18 by Shanks2424

[wildcatden]

For my kid, more practice breeds confidence. And not just swinging the club or hitting random chips. Practice with purpose and intent. It's hard to get some juniors to do that due to maturity.  Some kids seem to have that innate "maturity" (sometimes referred to as "drive") to make themselves better. Some kids are sadly threatened (or beaten) by their parents if they do not perform. Don't be the later.

 

DCP is a fun event and certainly requires skill but has some "luck" built into it.  Last year, my kid made it to Regionals, but pumped his first and third drive OB.  Game over. But I was able to convince him to keep trying to win a medal at the chipping and putting parts. He won the gold at chipping.  This year in the local, he made his final putt from 30 feet to advance by 1 point. Pretty lucky.

 

 

[Shanks2424]

1 hour ago, wildcatden said:

For my kid, more practice breeds confidence. And not just swinging the club or hitting random chips. Practice with purpose and intent. It's hard to get some juniors to do that due to maturity.  Some kids seem to have that innate "maturity" (sometimes referred to as "drive") to make themselves better. Some kids are sadly threatened (or beaten) by their parents if they do not perform. Don't be the later.

 

DCP is a fun event and certainly requires skill but has some "luck" built into it.  Last year, my kid made it to Regionals, but pumped his first and third drive OB.  Game over. But I was able to convince him to keep trying to win a medal at the chipping and putting parts. He won the gold at chipping.  This year in the local, he made his final putt from 30 feet to advance by 1 point. Pretty lucky.

 

 

I am not that kind of parent. He is the one that wants to do this. I have never pushed golf on him or ever got mad at him for not doing well. This past week I have been trying to lift him up by telling him that I have seen a huge improvement. I am proud of him and if he keeps doing what he has been doing I think he can do better they any of the past DCP he has done. He just needs to see it in himself and that is what I want him to see. Even if I awaken a monster that beats dad on the course every time we play. (dad wins all the time at this moment)

Edited July 18 by Shanks2424

[PostandGhost]

Everyone has an inner dialogue with themselves, whether they can hear it or not.  It sounds like your son's inner dialogue maybe has a negative tone.  Meaning if he does anything less than his idea of perfect, he will be very hard and very critical of himself.  If this is the case, would it be a terrible idea to ask him to change the inner dialogue tone by imagining he's talking to one of his friend's instead of himself?  Rarely will people talk to themselves like they will talk to their friends.  I would never tell a four ball partner he's an idiot for hitting that shot, he's trash for missing that putt, or anything like that.  But you better believe I say those things to myself all the time.  Why should I be so hard on myself?

 

You know how in a particular sport there is a guy that just wins everything and then there are guys that are super talented but can never win as much as they probably should.  I think the winner has an internal hype man that is always pumping him up, while the latter has an inner dialogue that tears him down.  Every time I saw Tiger play and he would spray a drive, he would be down on himself for 5 seconds and then it felt like there was this guy in his ear saying to him "you're about to hit a ridiculous shot, get it on the green, and this crowd is going to go crazy" instead of something like "oh geez, you just hit it so far right, you probably hit Pat Buchanan". 

 

Another issue might be that he has imposter syndrome.  If he feels like he is trespassing and doesn't belong in the competition, start having him summarize the situation to himself out loud when he feels that way.  The imposter syndrome is going to make him horrified at failing at a task or being wrong, so make sure he calls it out in a deferential manner.  Hopefully this will trigger a correction in his head.  This is going to sound counter intuitive, calling out a negative will not reinforce a negative, actually it does the opposite.  Tell him it's also good to fail because that's how you grow and learn.  The reason his chipping/putting has become so much better is because he went out to practice and probably hit a bunch of bad shots, which made him learn how to hit better ones.  Gotta take a loss to be a boss.  

 

Everyone's natural emotional wiring is to have fear and doubt. 75% of the amygdala is dedicated to negative thoughts.  Your son is going to have self doubt because self doubt is a survival mechanism, negativity is a survival mechanism.  The amygdala and limbic system are not easy to override and this could take months to retrain how he thinks.  It might not help him with Drive Chip Putt this year, however it could benefit him to become mentally tougher in the future.  The brain is 30% more efficient when you're in a positive frame of mind. 

 

I want to preface this info with the fact that I am not an expert, very far from it, and I am just regurgitating what I've read in some neuro and evo psych studies/articles over the years.  Also, there's a good chance I'm probably wrong with how I relayed the info that isn't mine. Good luck to your son and tell him there's a stranger on the internet pulling for him.  

 

[Shanks2424]

1 hour ago, PostandGhost said:

Everyone has an inner dialogue with themselves, whether they can hear it or not.  It sounds like your son's inner dialogue maybe has a negative tone.  Meaning if he does anything less than his idea of perfect, he will be very hard and very critical of himself.  If this is the case, would it be a terrible idea to ask him to change the inner dialogue tone by imagining he's talking to one of his friend's instead of himself?  Rarely will people talk to themselves like they will talk to their friends.  I would never tell a four ball partner he's an idiot for hitting that shot, he's trash for missing that putt, or anything like that.  But you better believe I say those things to myself all the time.  Why should I be so hard on myself?

 

You know how in a particular sport there is a guy that just wins everything and then there are guys that are super talented but can never win as much as they probably should.  I think the winner has an internal hype man that is always pumping him up, while the latter has an inner dialogue that tears him down.  Every time I saw Tiger play and he would spray a drive, he would be down on himself for 5 seconds and then it felt like there was this guy in his ear saying to him "you're about to hit a ridiculous shot, get it on the green, and this crowd is going to go crazy" instead of something like "oh geez, you just hit it so far right, you probably hit Pat Buchanan". 

 

Another issue might be that he has imposter syndrome.  If he feels like he is trespassing and doesn't belong in the competition, start having him summarize the situation to himself out loud when he feels that way.  The imposter syndrome is going to make him horrified at failing at a task or being wrong, so make sure he calls it out in a deferential manner.  Hopefully this will trigger a correction in his head.  This is going to sound counter intuitive, calling out a negative will not reinforce a negative, actually it does the opposite.  Tell him it's also good to fail because that's how you grow and learn.  The reason his chipping/putting has become so much better is because he went out to practice and probably hit a bunch of bad shots, which made him learn how to hit better ones.  Gotta take a loss to be a boss.  

 

Everyone's natural emotional wiring is to have fear and doubt. 75% of the amygdala is dedicated to negative thoughts.  Your son is going to have self doubt because self doubt is a survival mechanism, negativity is a survival mechanism.  The amygdala and limbic system are not easy to override and this could take months to retrain how he thinks.  It might not help him with Drive Chip Putt this year, however it could benefit him to become mentally tougher in the future.  The brain is 30% more efficient when you're in a positive frame of mind. 

 

I want to preface this info with the fact that I am not an expert, very far from it, and I am just regurgitating what I've read in some neuro and evo psych studies/articles over the years.  Also, there's a good chance I'm probably wrong with how I relayed the info that isn't mine. Good luck to your son and tell him there's a stranger on the internet pulling for him.  

 

No I think what you are saying is right. My son is very reserved. He dose not swear or say rude things. But he can get mouthy and has to have the last word with me or his mom, but with anyone else he dose not talk back. I think he is hard on him self because he knows he has talent he just needs to learn to stay in the moment and shut out the distractions. I have said it to him and my dad has said it to him that he has a great swing and if he works at it it he will be a good golfer. Can he play on the PGA I have no clue. But I do see him play on his high school team and possibly in college (my thoughts have not said anything to him about college golf just if he works hard he can do high school golf) . I think he is also wanting to do better this year because his best friend just went off to college to play football for Boston College as a Kicker. This young man has pushed Gavin to enjoy sports and to give his best.

Edited July 18 by Shanks2424

[kekoa]

To give a better answer, it would help to know the following:

 

- Years playing?

-Tournament experience?

- Range of current scores?

- Goals.  You mentioned college, but there are a lot of benchmarks between 8 grade and playing in college.

[Shanks2424]

5 minutes ago, kekoa said:

To give a better answer, it would help to know the following:

 

- Years playing?

-Tournament experience?

- Range of current scores?

- Goals.  You mentioned college, but there are a lot of benchmarks between 8 grade and playing in college.

I was just saying that's what I think sorry should have clarified that. I have not said anything to him other then to work hard to make the high school golf team. 

[PostandGhost]

12 minutes ago, Shanks2424 said:

No I think what you are saying is right. My son is very reserved. He dose not swear or say rude things. But he can get mouthy and has to have the last word with me or his mom, but with anyone else he dose not talk back. I think he is hard on him self because he knows he has talent he just needs to learn to stay in the moment and shut out the distractions. I have said it to him and my dad has said it to him that he has a great swing and if he works at it it he will be a good golfer. Can he play on the PGA I have no clue. But I do see him play on his high school team and possibly in college. I think he is also wanting to do better this year berceuse his best friend just went off to college to play football for Boston College as a Kicker. This young man has pushed Gavin to enjoy sports and to give his best.

That's great that he has a sort of "mentor" close to his age.  Might not be a bad idea to get your son to seek advice from him since it seems like he's playing sports at a high level and might be able to relate to the struggle.

[Shanks2424]

3 minutes ago, PostandGhost said:

That's great that he has a sort of "mentor" close to his age.  Might not be a bad idea to get your son to seek advice from him since it seems like he's playing sports at a high level and might be able to relate to the struggle.

Oh he dose, and his friend is going to call him Wednesday night to have a pep talk with him before DCP on Thursday.  He left last Sunday and came over to the house to play with Gavin one last time before he left and had a good long talk with me and him. Since then Gavin is the one that is dying to go practice after I get home from work.

Edited July 18 by Shanks2424

[Bizzle80]

I think confidence is somewhere in between nature and nurture. If you can instill confidence in kids REALLY early as they are developing (like 3-6yo) then I think it becomes ingrained in their personalities. If they haven't developed natural confidence by that time, it's more likely going to have to be a learned and practiced skill developed as an adult.

 

I kind of feel there is a natural window in young kids to develop that. My kid was praised (by others) constantly as a small child playing golf and soccer...and now she thinks she can literally be the best player on all her sports teams. Has zero fear of failure on the golf course, and doesn't seem bothered when she doesn't end up on top of medal stands. Her bestie is literally twice the natural athlete, but has so much fear of 'doing things wrong' while playing sports that she would freeze up, not engage on the field and now refuses to play on any of the teams. That same confidence (or lack thereof) spills into everything else in those two kids lives as well.

 

...and as previously stated, let your dude know that DCP is not the measure of golfing ability. So much luck involved... We have all seen better players beaten out by newbie kids getting lucky chipping one in and draining a long putt.

 

 

[mojomover]

We have gone through this a few times but more recently when my 11yr son went was upset with not seeing as much progress despite putting in work and the swing itself looking better- his coach said so, and it is visibly less kid-like. It does hurt as a parent to see your child go through this but I keep reminding him that there is only so much he can control at this age; he cant control his weight/height (he is 5ft, but 70lbs, so pretty skinny 🤣) and that at some point, when he does put on a few pounds all the work will help massively. I recently shared this quote from Poppvich->Kobe that Max Homa mentions that seemed to resonate with him: 

 

“When nothing seems to help, I go look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before.” – Jacob Riis

[Shanks2424]

Guys just want to say thanks for all the info. I think hearing from you guys has helped me coach him better and instill the confidence he needed. He is in a very talented age bracket. the # 1 score was 171 even though he finished last with his highest score of 59. He hit two drive out of bounds witch would have derailed him for the rest of the event he stepped up and ripped a drive right down the middle of the fairway. He stayed with it and had two great chances to roll in the 6 and 15 foot putt by a inch. He made huge strides and he even said that at the end of it. I did not say a word to him as he was walking off the green and he looked at me and said that was fun. I may not be moving on but i played better and kept in it. Him saying that to made me very proud. we worked hard on preshot and he did it every time witch was something he was bad at for the last few years. I know it dose not show how good a junior is at this wonderful game but he was able to see his gains even thou he is not moving on to the next round.

Edited July 21 by Shanks2424