2023 US Junior

[wegobomber31]

Any field reports from Daniel Island Club? Predictions for match play? Rooting interests?

[leezer99]

My son plays against three kids that made it into the top 64 so we'll definitely be rooting for them to play well. 

 

Was bummed to see Happy Gilmore missed the cut... really sad that I won't get to see another 1,300 tweets or IG posts about that.

 

There were a couple of kids we know that MC'd which was surprising. I'll have to talk to their parents when they get back to get the scoop. 

 

And don't forget, they are televising the semifinals and finals on GC starting Friday! 

[iteachgolf]

Course is getable from the fairway.  If you miss fairways you’ll have a tough time hitting greens.  Short sided chips are nearly impossible.  Course is very fair.  

[leezer99]

14-7 playoff this morning. Started on a par 3. 7 pars got in and it was over just like that. 

[hangontight]

We live in Charleston.  My 12 YO son went and watched R1 Stroke play on Monday.   Asked if he learned anything watching  - "Everyone hits a high fade into the greens"  .....hmm.  Other than that, I have not played DI recently but reports are that course is in outstanding condition.   It seems to be a good year for agronomy, have not seen a ton of bad grass anywhere this summer. 

 

As @iteachgolf mentioned, they've grown rough pretty thick....tough to advance.   We're planning on going for a few hours on Saturday for the final. 

[CT007]

Walked course Mon and Tues - just Beresford 6-18 - outstanding course, great conditions

 

In general, beresford is a 2nd shot course - fairways are wide, bunkers well placed, but then looks Ike you gotta hit a good iron to get it close. 

 

#8 is par 5, with very large green.  Only saw 1 hit it in 2.  I Think it played close to full # - 584

 

Followed kid from MD, supposed to be going to Rutgers (talked w coach) and he was solid.  Other kid in his group, Watney, hit it a long way.

 

if anywhere near, drive up and start walking down the fairway.  Was lot of fun to get out 

[kcap]

We just got back. The little guy missed the cut but a lot of really good players missed as well.  The USGA does a awesome job hosting the tournament and the host club i.e DI was great. 

 

The course is long, and you needed to be accurate off the tee and into the green.  The green complex were firm with a lot of undulations.  If you hit the green but on the wrong ridge, forget about it. The courses are rated 77-78 with a +145 slope..so they are hard and you needed to play really well to make the cut. 

Away from that, amazing experience. I know there was a debate on the best Jr tournament in a prior forum.  I don't think anything could come close to this tournament.  The level of competition, facilities, people, golf course and people - -just outstanding. 

 

Rooting for a bunch of kids to win and surprised on some being eliminated handily in Rd 1.   Match play is just different.

 

 

[leezer99]

I just read that they aren't allowing green reading books when your ball is on the green. Hallelujah. 

 

Now if we can get the express back into AimPoint Express.

[iteachgolf]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

I just read that they aren't allowing green reading books when your ball is on the green. Hallelujah. 

 

Now if we can get the express back into AimPoint Express.

You aren’t allowed to even look at your yardage book, even if using ones they gave that had zero green reading info in them, once ball hits the green.  As in you can’t pull the book back out after you/your players approach shot is in the air if it hits the green. Even from 250+ yards out. 

[kcap]

Also the player would be penalized even if the caddy opened the book!!

 

 

[wegobomber31]

17 minutes ago, kcap said:

Also the player would be penalized even if the caddy opened the book!!

 

 

That’s not true. You just can’t pull out and use your yardage book with the intent of helping determine the line of play. You could pull it out to say jot what club and yardage you hit into the green.

[kcap]

9 hours ago, wegobomber31 said:

That’s not true. You just can’t pull out and use your yardage book with the intent of helping determine the line of play. You could pull it out to say jot what club and yardage you hit into the green.

the thread was about a specific local rule during the US Jr Am.  Assume we are talking about the same rule then we were told that the caddy and player should not open their book if the ball is on the green.  The rules official was quite clear, while you might be just taking down notes it could be inferred differently.  So if you need to take notes, then do it afterwards, not when the ball is on the green. 

[iteachgolf]

9 hours ago, wegobomber31 said:

That’s not true. You just can’t pull out and use your yardage book with the intent of helping determine the line of play. You could pull it out to say jot what club and yardage you hit into the green.

100% true as I caddied in the event.  If you looked at the yardage book at all after ball was on surface, even from 200+ yards out, it would be deemed looking at green reading material. 

[wegobomber31]

15 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

100% true as I caddied in the event.  If you looked at the yardage book at all after ball was on surface, even from 200+ yards out, it would be deemed looking at green reading material. 

Sure about that? If somebody told you that, they were incorrect. But I’m sure as a well informed caddy, you reviewed the materials they sent out in advance. 

 

https://vimeo.com/824276054/6e7d640bee

[wegobomber31]

15 hours ago, kcap said:

the thread was about a specific local rule during the US Jr Am.  Assume we are talking about the same rule then we were told that the caddy and player should not open their book if the ball is on the green.  The rules official was quite clear, while you might be just taking down notes it could be inferred differently.  So if you need to take notes, then do it afterwards, not when the ball is on the green. 

I’m familiar with the rule and how it was used in the US Junior. I reviewed the materials they sent out. I agree it’s probably not a great idea to pull your yardage book out while your ball is on the putting green to avoid any confusion. It’s just not an auto-penalty like how it was described. If an official told you that, they frankly are misinformed. 

[iteachgolf]

12 minutes ago, wegobomber31 said:

Sure about that? If somebody told you that, they were incorrect. But I’m sure as a well informed caddy, you reviewed the materials they sent out in advance. 

 

https://vimeo.com/824276054/6e7d640bee

By both starters in practice rounds and multiple USGA Rules Officials. We were “strongly advised” not to pull out the book at all after approach shot was hit. And it was reiterated every day of the tournament by the starters.  Essentially you were guilty until proven innocent, and you’d have no way to prove you didn’t look at the diagram of the green.  Was told this by at least 10 different people, and they were the ones making the decisions, so it is up to their interpretation. 

[wegobomber31]

7 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

By both starters in practice rounds and multiple USGA Rules Officials. We were “strongly advised” not to pull out the book at all after approach shot was hit. And it was reiterated every day of the tournament by the starters.  Essentially you were guilty until proven innocent, and you’d have no way to prove you didn’t look at the diagram of the green.  Was told this by at least 10 different people, and they were the ones making the decisions, so it is up to their interpretation. 

I agree it would be a bad idea to pull out the yardage book and avoid putting yourself in that position. But I think you’d have a winnable argument if you were clearly writing down information with pencil in hand, and if pressed in a match I’d take it as far up the chain of command as possible, using their video as evidence. 
 

My son played this week and is in the US Amateur coming up, and this rule was new to us so we had quite a few discussions in the car about what it meant and how it might be interpreted, but also armed him and his caddie with all the relevant info so they were well informed going in. 
 

In one of his matches, my son played first from the green side rough and hit a very good shot to 2-3’ but was playing out of turn. The official stepped in and asked the other guy if he wanted to make my son replay the shot. The kid let it stand and they halved the hole. On the next tee, the other kid wondered why he hadn’t won the hole (ie why my son wasn’t penalized). Now this seems like a very basic match play rule that is common knowledge, but his (and caddies) ignorance of the rules probably cost him a chance at winning the hole. Ultimately it didn’t matter as he got closed out a couple holes later, but it could’ve made a difference. 

[CT007]

Saw this happen the other day as Jr Am

Player A hits approach to green right , over path, into pine straw, unmaintained area.

Player B hits approach short left of green.  

Rules official has to determine who’s away as they are 40-50 yds apart. -player A is away.

 

As player A is evaluating shot and not yet in position to play ball, but is near it and figuring out shot/lie - Player B states the ball moved.  

 

Player B is good 20-25 yds away when making statement that ball moved 

 

Official steps in, and asks question (i cant hear) and in less than 15 seconds has Player A mark and replace ball. Player A seems to unclear, and asks official if this is ok where it is.

 

is this common in Jr Golf ?   If that would have happened to me in a club event / match I would have called BS.  No way you see ball move from where player B was at.  I know its on the player to handle - but I can also see a Jr player getting run over by older player too.

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, CT007 said:

Saw this happen the other day as Jr Am

Player A hits approach to green right , over path, into pine straw, unmaintained area.

Player B hits approach short left of green.  

Rules official has to determine who’s away as they are 40-50 yds apart. -player A is away.

 

As player A is evaluating shot and not yet in position to play ball, but is near it and figuring out shot/lie - Player B states the ball moved.  

 

Player B is good 20-25 yds away when making statement that ball moved 

 

Official steps in, and asks question (i cant hear) and in less than 15 seconds has Player A mark and replace ball. Player A seems to unclear, and asks official if this is ok where it is.

 

is this common in Jr Golf ?   If that would have happened to me in a club event / match I would have called BS.  No way you see ball move from where player B was at.  I know its on the player to handle - but I can also see a Jr player getting run over by older player too.

 

Some call it gamesmanship, some call it cheating and other call it BS. It's all part of junior golf. 

[TroyB123]

9 hours ago, CT007 said:

Saw this happen the other day as Jr Am

Player A hits approach to green right , over path, into pine straw, unmaintained area.

Player B hits approach short left of green.  

Rules official has to determine who’s away as they are 40-50 yds apart. -player A is away.

 

As player A is evaluating shot and not yet in position to play ball, but is near it and figuring out shot/lie - Player B states the ball moved.  

 

Player B is good 20-25 yds away when making statement that ball moved 

 

Official steps in, and asks question (i cant hear) and in less than 15 seconds has Player A mark and replace ball. Player A seems to unclear, and asks official if this is ok where it is.

 

is this common in Jr Golf ?   If that would have happened to me in a club event / match I would have called BS.  No way you see ball move from where player B was at.  I know its on the player to handle - but I can also see a Jr player getting run over by older player too.

So they called a penalty on Player A?   That seems weak if player A was denying it and the official didn't see him move it.

[CT007]

The official did call a penalty 

 

while I could not hear all the official was saying the Player A - it was a quick decision 

 

Player A caddy was making case that he didnt cause the ball to move - official ignored the caddy 

 

from my point view, Player A had not addressed the ball.  He was around it , trying to figure out shot and club (he had an overhanging tree limb too) but had not got into pre shot routine 

 

player B was clearly older than player A 

 

I can only think, the player B called it out, official asked player A, and he answered quickly - I dont know maybe it did, maybe it moved, it could have, it is in pine needles , rough area - official then decided quickly   

 

Player A never got rattled or upset, never seemed to respond - talked w. His mom on next hole - she said he is very easy going like that, and has greatly improved his attitude on the course 

[Tugu]

On 7/29/2023 at 12:12 AM, CT007 said:

Saw this happen the other day as Jr Am

Player A hits approach to green right , over path, into pine straw, unmaintained area.

Player B hits approach short left of green.  

Rules official has to determine who’s away as they are 40-50 yds apart. -player A is away.

 

As player A is evaluating shot and not yet in position to play ball, but is near it and figuring out shot/lie - Player B states the ball moved.  

 

Player B is good 20-25 yds away when making statement that ball moved 

 

Official steps in, and asks question (i cant hear) and in less than 15 seconds has Player A mark and replace ball. Player A seems to unclear, and asks official if this is ok where it is.

 

is this common in Jr Golf ?   If that would have happened to me in a club event / match I would have called BS.  No way you see ball move from where player B was at.  I know its on the player to handle - but I can also see a Jr player getting run over by older player too.

More matchplay please. Even if matchplay is scored via strokes and not singular holes.