Interesting stat comparing PGA and LPGA tee games

[me05501]

Russell Henley leads the PGA Tour this year in Driving Accuracy at 74.2%. 

 

If he played on the LPGA his Driving Accuracy would rank 53rd. 

 

Wondering what factors are most relevant here: 

• Are these stats collected the same way or are there important differences?
• Do LPGA players prioritize hitting fairways because it's more difficult for them to escape the rough, or perhaps to maximize GIR? 
• Are the fairways on the LPGA Tour just that much wider on average? 
• Finally, what would be the likely result of a PGA Tour pro prioritizing Driving Accuracy above all else? If someone could manage to sniff the 85% Driving Accuracy rate of top LPGA, would it be a winning strategy? 

 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I can't imagine the stats are done any differently.

 

He hits it much farther than even the longest LPGA player, especially in the air, and compared to the most accurate the difference is even more stark. Most of the longer hitters on the LPGA are hitting fairways at a lower clip than Henley. 

 

LPGA set ups are probably a bit easier on average, not sure about fairway width. 

 

I imagine you'd have to give up too much distance to be that accurate, and he's probably not off the fairway by much most of the time. He's top 5 in distance from edge of fairway. 

[bazinky]

In my opinion, it's a mistake to look at golf driving accuracy without taking into account swing speed and driving distance.

 

If you have two golfers that both hit the fairway on 80% of their tee shots, but one has an average driving distance of 260 and the other has an average driving distance of 300 yards, they are NOT equally accurate. A longer driver has to have a much lower off-line angle dispersion to hit the same number of fairways.

Edited August 14 by bazinky

[tatertot]

1 minute ago, bazinky said:

In my opinion, it's a mistake to look at golf driving accuracy without taking into account swing speed and driving distance.

 

If you have two golfers that both hit the fairway on 80% of their tee shots, but one has an average driving distance of 260 and the other has an average driving distance of 300 yards, they are NOT equally accurate. Alonger driver has to have a much lower off-line angle dispersion to hit the same number of fairways.

Nope ... they're still equally accurate.

[smashdn]

49 minutes ago, me05501 said:

Russell Henley leads the PGA Tour this year in Driving Accuracy at 74.2%. 

 

If he played on the LPGA his Driving Accuracy would rank 53rd. 

 

Wondering what factors are most relevant here: 

• Are these stats collected the same way or are there important differences?
• Do LPGA players prioritize hitting fairways because it's more difficult for them to escape the rough, or perhaps to maximize GIR? 
• Are the fairways on the LPGA Tour just that much wider on average? 
• Finally, what would be the likely result of a PGA Tour pro prioritizing Driving Accuracy above all else? If someone could manage to sniff the 85% Driving Accuracy rate of top LPGA, would it be a winning strategy? 

 

 

I have no data to back it up but think this.  2" rough is a different "hazard" to the ladies than it is to men.

[bladehunter]

The slower any on swings the easier it is to control the face and timing of the swing.  It’s that simple.  Swing at the lpga pace for a good male player would equal a very high fairways  hit stat. 

[Ferguson]

 

14 minutes ago, bazinky said:

In my opinion, it's a mistake to look at golf driving accuracy without taking into account swing speed and driving distance.

 

If you have two golfers that both hit the fairway on 80% of their tee shots, but one has an average driving distance of 260 and the other has an average driving distance of 300 yards, they are NOT equally accurate. A longer driver has to have a much lower off-line angle dispersion to hit the same number of fairways.

 

 

I wish to add some flavor to the post from @tatertot, my esteemed web forum colleague.   

 

18 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Nope ... they're still equally accurate.

 

 

Any way you slice it or dice it, and whether you hit it 30 yards or 300 yards, an accuracy rate of 80% equals 80%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[me05501]

Certainly the more distance a ball travels in the air the more important the launch direction is.

 

If the club face is 2* more open than the player intended, the ball that flies 240 yards has an accuracy advantage over the one that flies 280. 

 

As Decade has made clear, a good player's driving dispersion is in the shape of a cone, and the longest part of the cone is also the widest. That makes sense to me. 

 

At the same time, professional golfers generally aren't holding much back off the tee. Those who can hit it long tend to try to do so at every opportunity. 

 

Maybe Total Driving is the better stat to compare across Tours? 

Edited August 14 by me05501

[vandyfan]

It is harder to be accurate when you are carrying the ball 300+ vs 220-240  yds because any deviation of the clubface open/closed is amplified, right? It is the same with putting where if your putter face is slightly open at impact for a flat, 5 foot putt you will still make it whereas if your clubface is open on a flat 25 foot putt you are missing the hole entirely. 

[Chunkitgood]

How is accuracy defined?  How could it be defined other than landing in the fairway?

 

Doesn’t it seem apodeictic that any drive other than a perfectly straight one on a perfectly straight hole is going to be more likely to land off the fairway the longer it travels?

 

If you just consider doglegs, some higher proportion of longer drives are going to go through the dogleg than shorter drives.

 

This might not be the case if the distances of the holes and width of fairways are scaled down for women proportionate to their distances, but I don’t think they are.  Add the fact that a lot of holes for men have been lengthened by adding tee boxes out in the woods giving them unnatural angles and narrow corridors to even reach fairways.

 

But, who really cares what the chicks do?

[Ferguson]

1 minute ago, Chunkitgood said:

How is accuracy defined?  How could it be defined other than landing in the fairway?

 

Doesn’t it seem apodeictic that any drive other than a perfectly straight one on a perfectly straight hole is going to be more likely to land off the fairway the longer it travels?

 

If you just consider doglegs, some higher proportion of longer drives are going to go through the dogleg than shorter drives.

 

This might not be the case if the distances of the holes and width of fairways are scaled down for women proportionate to their distances, but I don’t think they are.  Add the fact that a lot of holes for men have been lengthened by adding tee boxes out in the woods giving them unnatural angles and narrow corridors to even reach fairways.

 

But, who really cares what the chicks do?

 

 

I'm sure KT tape took a revenue hit when Michelle Wie retired. 

 

 

 

[nvr3putt]

Is this a political discussion? 😁

[bazinky]

52 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

 

I wish to add some flavor to the post from @tatertot, my esteemed web forum colleague.   

 

 

 

Any way you slice it or dice it, and whether you hit it 30 yards or 300 yards, an accuracy rate of 80% equals 80%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, accuracy rate is only one component of total accuracy. If there is enough diifference in driving distance, comparisons on rate alone become much less meaningful.

 

Is it harder to hit a bullseye on a dart board from 20 yards, or 50?

[ReviellGolf]

For the visual learners.

[ReviellGolf]

btw, +- degree of error due to my poor paint skills.

[Ferguson]

16 minutes ago, bazinky said:

In my opinion, accuracy rate is only one component of total accuracy. If there is enough diifference in driving distance, comparisons on rate alone become much less meaningful.

 

Is it harder to hit a bullseye on a dart board from 20 yards, or 50?

 

Aside from rate, what are the other components of total accuracy?   

 

[me05501]

30 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

I'm sure KT tape took a revenue hit when Michelle Wie retired. 

 

 

 

 

I will never be convinced that tape on skin can have any impact on the tissue under the skin. I AM FULLY PREPARED TO DIE ON THIS HILL.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

15 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

I will never be convinced that tape on skin can have any impact on the tissue under the skin. I AM FULLY PREPARED TO DIE ON THIS HILL.

 

Depends on the injury, I am having issues with my IT band (runs along the outside of the leg) and it definitely helps stabilize things.

[m d g]

1 hour ago, vandyfan said:

It is harder to be accurate when you are carrying the ball 300+ vs 220-240  yds because any deviation of the clubface open/closed is amplified, right? It is the same with putting where if your putter face is slightly open at impact for a flat, 5 foot putt you will still make it whereas if your clubface is open on a flat 25 foot putt you are missing the hole entirely. 

 

Exactly. 80% is 80%, but one is not like the other...

[gvogel]

2 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

I can't imagine the stats are done any differently.

 

He hits it much farther than even the longest LPGA player, especially in the air, and compared to the most accurate the difference is even more stark. Most of the longer hitters on the LPGA are hitting fairways at a lower clip than Henley. 

 

LPGA set ups are probably a bit easier on average, not sure about fairway width. 

 

I imagine you'd have to give up too much distance to be that accurate, and he's probably not off the fairway by much most of the time. He's top 5 in distance from edge of fairway. 

Russell Henley is averaging 290 this year.  There are a couple ladies averaging 278 on the LPGA this year, and Anne Van Damm averaged 283 a couple years ago.  So the ladies are getting longer.  On the other hand, the ladies that I just mentioned haven't been making many cuts this year.

 

I think what the stats tell us is that there is more of a premium of accuracy off the tee on the LPGA Tour because the ladies don't have the strength to get the ball out of the rough, and when they do hit it in the rough, they are using longer clubs to reach the green, which are more difficult.

 

I will contend that if the males played 8,000 to 8,500 yard courses, their fairways hit would increase since they would be playing longer clubs into the green, which are more difficult out of the rough than the clubs they have to hit today.  So they would make the necessary compensations off the tee in order play longer shots to the green.

[3whacker]

34 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

I will never be convinced that tape on skin can have any impact on the tissue under the skin. I AM FULLY PREPARED TO DIE ON THIS HILL.

How about ankles being taped on football and basketball players....what would you like on your headstone and what type of flowers do you prefer

[me05501]

Just now, 3whacker said:

How about ankles being taped on football and basketball players....what would you like on your headstone and what type of flowers do you prefer

 

🙂

 

Taping ankles is totally different for sure because the tape overlaps itself and creates a structure that can support the joint and prevent over-extension. 

 

Putting a 6" strip of that same tape across someone's quad? Useless. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

11 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Russell Henley is averaging 290 this year.  There are a couple ladies averaging 278 on the LPGA this year, and Anne Van Damm averaged 283 a couple years ago.  So the ladies are getting longer.  On the other hand, the ladies that I just mentioned haven't been making many cuts this year.

 

I think what the stats tell us is that there is more of a premium of accuracy off the tee on the LPGA Tour because the ladies don't have the strength to get the ball out of the rough, and when they do hit it in the rough, they are using longer clubs to reach the green, which are more difficult.

 

I will contend that if the males played 8,000 to 8,500 yard courses, their fairways hit would increase since they would be playing longer clubs into the green, which are more difficult out of the rough than the clubs they have to hit today.  So they would make the necessary compensations off the tee in order play longer shots to the green.

 

Yeah somewhat but they are still not in that realm. Nelly is probably the best combination of power and accuracy with a ~270 avg. and 73% accuracy but that's far behind 291, he's carrying it past that on average. It's probably true that the ladies have a more difficult time from the rough though. 

[Ferguson]

57 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

I will never be convinced that tape on skin can have any impact on the tissue under the skin. I AM FULLY PREPARED TO DIE ON THIS HILL.

 

I'm with you but the app says it does. 

 

Why not tape the entire body?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Soloman1]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

 

I will never be convinced that tape on skin can have any impact on the tissue under the skin. I AM FULLY PREPARED TO DIE ON THIS HILL.

 

 

"I don't like that restaurant."

 

"What didn't you like?"

 

"I don't know, I've never been there. But I don't like it!"

 

🙂

 

 

[Barfolomew]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

 

I will never be convinced that tape on skin can have any impact on the tissue under the skin. I AM FULLY PREPARED TO DIE ON THIS HILL.

 

Ya but if you believe duck taping your body helps then...

[me05501]

I figure it's like high-top sneakers, wrist bands or "shooter's sleeves" in the NBA. These trends come and go and players swear they're absolutely necessary or helpful yet somehow they still go out of style. 

Don't get me started on those skinny little bicep bands football players gotta have these days. Their main purpose is to draw attention to their biceps. That's also their only purpose. 

Edited August 14 by me05501

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 hour ago, Chunkitgood said:

How could it be defined other than landing in the fairway?

Linear distance from center of fairway, angular distance from center of fairway, are two that come to mind.  The latter uses driving distance to generate the measurement as well.

 

Neither are likely where the player was aiming though, and depending on the hole, the player might not want to be in the center of the fairway.  Or even on that fairway, for certain infamous examples where playing down an adjacent fairway makes for an easier approach.  

 

As noted, rhe greater fairway percentage for LPGA is likely due simply to their fairways being roughly the same width as men's courses.  With less driving distance meaning an equivalent angular miss results in less dispersion, and that smaller dispersion is more likely to overlay the fairway.

 

I think they'd trade with the men's driving stats if they could.

[3whacker]

How about Breathe Right Nasal strips or butterfly tape to keep a cut closed, or Gorilla tape to shut someones mouth

[MattM97]

1 hour ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

I'm sure KT tape took a revenue hit when Michelle Wie retired. 

 

 

 

 

As long as the CrossFit games exists they'll do just fine.