Teenage golfer performs significantly worse on the second day compared to the first day

[jhsph07]

Hi,

 

This past season my son has been playing very consistently - normally he'd always shoot 1 or 2 over on the first day and then 7 or 8 over on the second day. Talked with his coach, form definitely has room to improve but does not necessarily warrant this big of difference. He's a fairly strong kid so stamina shouldn't be an issue.  

 

Is it the time to start working with sports psychologists? 

 

Thanks! 

[golfortennis]

How old is your son?  Is he on a school team, and that is the coach or are you referring to his swing coach?  Lot of information missing IMHO before anyone could even try to guess at this.

[Medson]

3 hours ago, jhsph07 said:

Hi,

 

This past season my son has been playing very consistently - normally he'd always shoot 1 or 2 over on the first day and then 7 or 8 over on the second day. Talked with his coach, form definitely has room to improve but does not necessarily warrant this big of difference. He's a fairly strong kid so stamina shouldn't be an issue.  

 

Is it the time to start working with sports psychologists? 

 

Thanks! 

 

 

I'd start benchmark his scores against the field. Having said above, I've never seen the entire field score 6 shots higher on the second day tournament-after-tournament. I'd probably also start benchmarking front 9 and back 9 scores again field's too. 

 

My gut feeling is your son does perform worse on the second day, just probably not 6 shots worse. 

 

Then, I'd probably start looking at double bogeys and try to classify why they happen. Double bogeys are usually result of multiple errors. So you should be able to glean insights pretty quickly. 

 

I'd probably start from above although I'm sure sports psychologists would love to take your money ... 

[ShortGolfer]

May be an issue with course management.  He may be playing too aggressively on the 2nd day.

[MahalNeneng]

Expectations Rule Always (can go either direction)

[kekoa]

I agree with @Medson.  The reason for a higher score second day has to be pinpointed.  Are there doubles, 3 putts etc??  If your son goes 1 or 2 over the first day, I'm going to assume there were no penalties taken or he was able to make a lot of birds.  Also, what was his standing normally after the first day.  If he is in the hunt after day 1, he may be putting undue pressure on himself on day 2.

[TroyB123]

Could just be a blip too.   We tend to see patterns that aren't necessarily there in small sample sizes.   I guess if it was 8-10 tournaments in a row, then there may be something to dissect.   If it's more like 3-4 in a row, then just might be random, and he could well go 2-3 in a row where he has a good second round and bad first round.   If you make too much of it, it becomes a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy though and gets in his head.   

 

My kid used to start rounds terribly, then fixed that, and started finishing them terribly for a while, then started playing more consistently throughout rounds.   Recently he had 3 tournament rounds where he was even except for a quad bogey each day, and they were all completely different scenarios.   Then that went away.   

 

Lots of variance in golf, especially junior golf.   If it was my kid, I'd do the best to help him not dwell on it and say that's just how it goes sometimes, so it doesn't become more of a thing.

[RobS]

Mental stamina is often overlooked when it comes to tournament golf.  Some players start tournaments with a high level of focus that can fall off on day 2 or 3.  Others may start off a little more relaxed and then ratchet it up on day 2 or 3 after a slow start.  Players will feel some degree of urgency at different times throughout a tournament.  It's tough to find the middle ground between totally grinding and just enjoying the walk.  It's not that easy to maintain the proper focus on every shot over the course of multiple rounds or even a single round. 

 

Developing a pre-shot process/routine and sticking to it helps to sort of automate every shot.  It also allows you to sort of turn your brain off and turn it back on for that 30-40 seconds where you need to be really locked in and committed.  It also helps keep your head quiet and filter out those thoughts everyone has that aren't productive.  I'd take a look at your son's pre-shot approach, mentally and physically.  All sports psychologist, for golf in particular, will talk about routine and process as a necessary tool.  You might be familiar with Vision 54.  If not, I'd take a look as they have a lot of good tools for the mental side of the game such as the "think box" and "play box" philosophy for pre-shot.  Also look at their "supergolfer" checklist.  This may not be your sons scoring issue but these are good skills to develop nonetheless.

[leezer99]

https://x.com/loustagner/status/1705232834988781602?s=46&t=XYHbH0ZT5xHCX-KPvpZE7A
 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Best place for Dad's most rounds is at the 19th hole.  Maybe a "I love you" fist  bump at the turn and drop off a hotdog.

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Best place for Dad's most rounds is at the 19th hole.  Maybe a "I love you" fist  bump at the turn and drop off a hotdog.

 

Mine just got his permit... hopefully by this time next year I won't even have to go!

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

I remember my daughter first tournament of her driving herself. It was a little weird.  It  was close by so I came out to see her at the turn. 

 

It was also 35 degrees and hailing outside.  Freaking TD 😉

[RobS]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:51 AM, leezer99 said:

https://x.com/loustagner/status/1705232834988781602?s=46&t=XYHbH0ZT5xHCX-KPvpZE7A
 

Classic father/son post round exchange:

Dad- 'you need to birdie the par 5's'.  

Son- 'you should have told me before the round'.

Dad- 'are you serious?'

Son- 'do you really think I'm not trying to birdie the par 5's'

 

The best thing I did when my son got serious about golf was to start playing some tournament golf again.  It's a good reminder of how hard it is to put a good tournament round together let alone 2 or 3 in a row.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

1 hour ago, RobS said:

Classic father/son post round exchange:

Dad- 'you need to birdie the par 5's'.  

Son- 'you should have told me before the round'.

Dad- 'are you serious?'

Son- 'do you really think I'm not trying to birdie the par 5's'

 

The best thing I did when my son got serious about golf was to start playing some tournament golf again.  It's a good reminder of how hard it is to put a good tournament round together let alone 2 or 3 in a row.

Great advice.  Last couple of years I have played in some of the one day events for our State association of State qualifier.  So I am out there with college kids and really good guys.  Man I am just trying not to finish last.  Its a grind!!

 

The wife has talked about going and watching our daughter play college golf, but man its 5 hours and no matter the score you are just wore out.  You always think the kid could have or should have.  Told her I am good with the scorecard pic and 5 minute facetime post round run down.

 

Usually 2 days later my daughter is laughing about all her bad shots or a lip so that is cool.

[eddiebigeddie]

Here's what I tell my son and other kids on our golf team.  Golf is HARD, doesn't matter the skill level of the player its just hard.  You have different courses, weather conditions, locations etc. that change everything.  But what I like to use as a reference is to look at the PGA Pro's as the perfect example...those guys are the best of the best and even they don't shoot good rounds all the time.  There's a few that will go on streaks and shoot low rounds over a shorter time frame, but the vast majority of them have bad rounds too.  And since the kids aren't Pro's they need to remember that and try and manage their expectations.  For my kids (I'm a high school coach) I try to preach about having fun, eliminating the errors or not making back to back errors and taking advantage where you can.  Have that routine and game plan, but also know that one shot can change that plan you've put in to play.

 

The Hardest part for me this year was trying to separate Dad/Coach with my son.  I obviously want to watch my son play and play well, but it can be hard when they don't.  I had to learn to talk golf at home or in practice and come "game day" it was more about good luck, play your game and just "watch" and provide drinks/snacks & whatever happens, happens.  For me, its more about making sure he handles himself and the game with respect and not act like some of the kids we see on a regular basis. 

 

My son has had the same type issues as your son throughout the season & in rounds.  This year he's started the season on FIRE scoring wise, some not so good rounds for him and then just average rounds.  Some of the rounds I think it was due to lack of focus, too many tournaments in a short time frame, health, pressure, etc.  I literally watched him play his best tournament round the 2nd tourney of the season and shoot a -3 (68) after bogeying the last hole to finish second...playing a lot of mid 70's rounds, a 2 tourney stretch where he had back to back 87's and one round where he was +11 after 9 holes, then went -4 the next 9....two completely different nines because all the pressure was gone and he just played.

 

Every kid is different and it takes time to find what it is they need.  Good luck on your journey and hopefully it clicks sooner than later for your son.

[Oliver Klozoff]

I haven't read the responses but when I played in college I had the same problem and found that hydration was causing fatigue both mentally and physically.  I was 3-4 shots higher on day 2.  I needed to drink far more water.  It certainly helped deal with the stress of day 2.

Edited September 26 by Oliver Klozoff

[kekoa]

4 hours ago, RobS said:

Classic father/son post round exchange:

Dad- 'you need to birdie the par 5's'.  

Son- 'you should have told me before the round'.

Dad- 'are you serious?'

Son- 'do you really think I'm not trying to birdie the par 5's'

 

The best thing I did when my son got serious about golf was to start playing some tournament golf again.  It's a good reminder of how hard it is to put a good tournament round together let alone 2 or 3 in a row.

Totally agree with this.  I knew my son would eventually beat me, but didn't think it would happen this soon.  He is 13 and beats me consistently from the same tees.  Nowadays, I think twice about giving him unsolicited advice or jabbing him for a bad shot/missed putt.

[RobS]

1 hour ago, kekoa said:

Totally agree with this.  I knew my son would eventually beat me, but didn't think it would happen this soon.  He is 13 and beats me consistently from the same tees.  Nowadays, I think twice about giving him unsolicited advice or jabbing him for a bad shot/missed putt.

I know the feeling.  I could see him catching me in the rearview mirror and then he just blew right by me like I was an old man driving 55 in the right lane.  The only time I get on him these days is when his attitude or body language slips but that's pretty rare.  It's more just 2 guys talking golf these days, sharing thoughts and ideas.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 9/26/2023 at 1:07 PM, kekoa said:

Totally agree with this.  I knew my son would eventually beat me, but didn't think it would happen this soon.  He is 13 and beats me consistently from the same tees.  Nowadays, I think twice about giving him unsolicited advice or jabbing him for a bad shot/missed putt.

lol.

 

Son and I played in the same state qualifier last yesterday.  He was behind me so we could car pool etc.  3rd hole par 4 quad for me.  There was a backup at the turn.  His group caught us.

 

He was like so.... "A little a trouble on number 3, huh?"

[leezer99]

On 9/26/2023 at 8:13 AM, Oliver Klozoff said:

I haven't read the responses but when I played in college I had the same problem and found that hydration was causing fatigue both mentally and physically.  I was 3-4 shots higher on day 2.  I needed to drink far more water.  It certainly helped deal with the stress of day 2.

The brain is the first thing to get dehydrated and the last thing to get rehydrated. A 1% increase in dehydration can cause a 5% decrease in cognitive ability. 
 

This post is brought to you by Liquid IV. 

Edited September 28 by leezer99

[kekoa]

3 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

lol.

 

Son and I played in the same state qualifier last yesterday.  He was behind me so we could car pool etc.  3rd hole par 4 quad for me.  There was a backup at the turn.  His group caught us.

 

He was like so.... "A little a trouble on number 3, huh?"

LOL!  After a comment like that, my son is walking home 🙂

[golferdad8]

Lots of great suggestions here, but like others I agree not enough info. 

Imho, it's important to understand the reason why...and best break down the 2 round by holes (Decade anyone) to figure out where he's gaining and losing strokes. 

It took my son a long time to learn how to break par in a tournament (end of 9th grade). He'd often get -4 on front or back 9 but wasn't able to put it together. 

Eventually his break through came from a combination of spending two-thirds of his practice time on 125 in, and also learning course mgmt on how to avoid big #s. 

The good news is by 11th grade he had numerous D1 options. 

 

Good luck to your son. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:57 PM, jhsph07 said:

Hi,

 

This past season my son has been playing very consistently - normally he'd always shoot 1 or 2 over on the first day and then 7 or 8 over on the second day. Talked with his coach, form definitely has room to improve but does not necessarily warrant this big of difference. He's a fairly strong kid so stamina shouldn't be an issue.  

 

Is it the time to start working with sports psychologists? 

 

Thanks! 

I forgot several times to recommend this book. 

https://www.amazon.com/Golf-Not-Game-Perfect-Rotella/dp/0743492471/ref=asc_df_0743492471/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312029778645&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6250481332826281600&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007595&hvtargid=pla-454036670831&psc=1

Personally I don't think your son should see a Sports Psy, but totally up to you.

 

If its happening constantly.  I would look at other factors.

 

Tracking what he is eating before, during, and after a tournament.

 

Fluid intake.  I use to run long distance races.  It was always amazing the folks that tried to hydrate the day of and during a race.  The process for a marathon usually is 3 days prior.

 

Weighing him before, after round 1, before round 2 and afterwards.  Tracking this information as data points.

 

Buying him a whoop and tracking that data as well.  Is his body battery ready for round 2.

 

The book is a good read for player and dad though.