So, Europe’s analytical guy gets to set up the Ryder Cup golf course?

Chunkitgood · September 29

Per McGinley (spelling?)?

Is this normal and generally known and countenanced?

Seems like a pretty nice advantage, if in fact analytics have much value.

dalehead · September 29

The home team gets to set up the course. Who they choose to do this is up to them.

jdl · September 29

ChxDigLongBall · September 29

Maybe that's why they dominate in Europe. Dudes like this lending a hand. I'm sure America uses some type of data analysis in their setups too. Perhaps not as well, but I'm sure they do it.

Hawkeye77 · September 29

Sky still blue here!

Chunkitgood · September 30

It just strikes me as wrong for team in a competition to set up the course to favor itself. Mostly the home team advantage doesn’t extend to setting the physical characteristics of the playing area, say raising the basket if your center is really tall or lose it if he is short.

Sure some odd sets up the course, but to explicitly say you’re using analytics to set up the course favor your team seems pretty cheesy to me. If it works (a big if I admit) it harms the competition of course in that few visitors will ever win. Who wants to watch a fixed fight?

Maybe the powers hat be have decided to split the difference while pretending to compete passionately.

golfheaven69 · September 30

They want it more. Setup means little.

pga43 · September 30

25 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

It just strikes me as wrong for team in a competition to set up the course to favor itself. Mostly the home team advantage doesn’t extend to setting the physical characteristics of the playing area, say raising the basket if your center is really tall or lose it if he is short.

Sure some odd sets up the course, but to explicitly say you’re using analytics to set up the course favor your team seems pretty cheesy to me. If it works (a big if I admit) it harms the competition of course in that few visitors will ever win. Who wants to watch a fixed fight?

Maybe the powers hat be have decided to split the difference while pretending to compete passionately.

Done in Major League Baseball all the time with what distance the outfield wall is set.

Greg

mark m · September 30

I haven’t followed the threads closely, but has this been commented upon? (And congrats to the Euro team as it has worked well.)

From the app, which I assume is not off by much day to day:

Front side = 3300

Back side = 3265

Total = 6565 yards! (I am sorry, but it’s actually funny.)

Maybe the US should dump Bethpage and go to Tree Tops par 3?

mark m · September 30

Maybe to get Rory a win at the Masters they should do a combo tee - around 6600?

tatertot · October 1

35 minutes ago, pga43 said:

Done in Major League Baseball all the time with what distance the outfield wall is set.

Greg

Along with the height of grass ... When there is real grass. Also in NFL.

tatertot · October 1

27 minutes ago, mark m said:

Maybe to get Rory a win at the Masters they should do a combo tee - around 6600?

Yeah, because Rory struggles with the driver ... Man, we got some real sour grapes going on over here.

tatertot · October 1

32 minutes ago, mark m said:

I haven’t followed the threads closely, but has this been commented upon? (And congrats to the Euro team as it has worked well.)

From the app, which I assume is not off by much day to day:

Front side = 3300

Back side = 3265

Total = 6565 yards! (I am sorry, but it’s actually funny.)

Maybe the US should dump Bethpage and go to Tree Tops par 3?

I'm sure they would if it meant them not getting crushed again.

KNOWMOREDOUBLES · October 1

1 hour ago, golfheaven69 said:

They want it more. Setup means little.

So the US wanted it more at Whistling Straits?

sui generis · October 1

1 hour ago, Chunkitgood said:

It just strikes me as wrong for team in a competition to set up the course to favor itself. Mostly the home team advantage doesn’t extend to setting the physical characteristics of the playing area, say raising the basket if your center is really tall or lose it if he is short.

Sure some odd sets up the course, but to explicitly say you’re using analytics to set up the course favor your team seems pretty cheesy to me. If it works (a big if I admit) it harms the competition of course in that few visitors will ever win. Who wants to watch a fixed fight?

Maybe the powers hat be have decided to split the difference while pretending to compete passionately.

Tell us about your experience in course marking, setting hole locations and teeing areas.

Hawkeye77 · October 1

Been going on forever - folks think it’s fun when we do it. https://www.golfdigest.com/story/ryder-cup-2021-home-captains-course-set-up-overlooked-influence-on-matches/amp

mark m · October 1

And Justin Rose famously said Hazeltine had a “pro-am” set-up because the tees were up, rough was minimal, and pins were not tucked. I think it’s funny it’s that short this year. Again, congrats! But contrast the reality of 6600 with the distance thread. The designers say 8000!

By the way, beautiful weather. Thank goodness.

Chunkitgood · October 1

39 minutes ago, sui generis said:

Tell us about your experience in course marking, setting hole locations and teeing areas.

What does my experience have to do with it?

Per Hawkeye, this is just the way it’s done now, since at least 2008, when Azinger did it apparently as an innovation. Apparently it works. It was wrong then and now, IMO.

I am no expert but I don’t think MLB leans move their fences back and forth for different visiting teams. Do they really mow grass differently for different visiting teams?

MattM97 · October 1

2 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

It just strikes me as wrong for team in a competition to set up the course to favor itself. Mostly the home team advantage doesn’t extend to setting the physical characteristics of the playing area, say raising the basket if your center is really tall or lose it if he is short.

Sure some odd sets up the course, but to explicitly say you’re using analytics to set up the course favor your team seems pretty cheesy to me. If it works (a big if I admit) it harms the competition of course in that few visitors will ever win. Who wants to watch a fixed fight?

Maybe the powers hat be have decided to split the difference while pretending to compete passionately.

Johnson or the opposing captain agrees to the tee boxes and setup. He mentioned this on the Sub-Par podcast a few weeks back.

Yes home team gets the advantage but it's not completely unfair.

sui generis · October 1

22 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

What does my experience have to do with it?

Per Hawkeye, this is just the way it’s done now, since at least 2008, when Azinger did it apparently as an innovation. Apparently it works. It was wrong then and now, IMO.

I am no expert but I don’t think MLB leans move their fences back and forth for different visiting teams. Do they really mow grass differently for different visiting teams?

Course set up is not that difficult. It depends on the skill level of the competitors and little else. Sometimes TV golf does goofy things in hopes that you'll watch and buy more Viagra and Audis, but for the most part it's a vanilla operation. Rolex has no say in the deal.

Chunkitgood · October 1

Read the rest of the article (apologies to not before) and saw this:

“After that (Monday), daily decisions regarding course setup all are to be handled by the Match Committee, which is made up of representatives from the European Tour and the PGA of America.” According to a captain’s agreement.”

An interesting (sort of) subject about which it may hard be get to the reality.

ob1soccer · October 1

there is no chance that setting up a course a particular way will affect the outcome. They are all professional golfers playing the same exact course, so the set up means zero

Chunkitgood · October 1

3 minutes ago, sui generis said:

Course set up is not that difficult. It depends on the skill level of the competitors and little else. Sometimes TV golf does goofy things in hopes that you'll watch and buy more Viagra and Audis, but for the most part it's a vanilla operation. Rolex has no say in the deal.

Except McGinley said the way the Euros did it using their analytics guy was to their advantage. So depends not on the skill but rather the skill set (including ability to hit it in the fairway).

Chunkitgood · October 1

1 minute ago, ob1soccer said:

there is no chance that setting up a course a particular way will affect the outcome. They are all professional golfers playing the same exact course, so the set up means zero

You might read the article Hawkeye posted.

Avidswampthing66 · October 1

Let's just say it. It's VERRRRY hard to beat Europe in Europe for multitudes of reasons. But, IMO all these little shreds of data matter. As far as strokes gained data, a stroke or even half a stroke here or there could win you a match.

sui generis · October 1

35 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

Except McGinley said the way the Euros did it using their analytics guy was to their advantage. So depends not on the skill but rather the skill set (including ability to hit it in the fairway).

I know. it seems fun to inject course set up into the equation, but it doesn't really matter as long as it suits the skill level of the competitors. Especially, in this case where it seems both sides have a say.

iBanesto · October 1

6 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

It just strikes me as wrong for team in a competition to set up the course to favor itself. Mostly the home team advantage doesn’t extend to setting the physical characteristics of the playing area, say raising the basket if your center is really tall or lose it if he is short.

Sure some odd sets up the course, but to explicitly say you’re using analytics to set up the course favor your team seems pretty cheesy to me. If it works (a big if I admit) it harms the competition of course in that few visitors will ever win. Who wants to watch a fixed fight?

Maybe the powers hat be have decided to split the difference while pretending to compete passionately.

Feedback · October 1

How many years ago did they decide what course would host the ‘23 Ryder Cup? How certain were they at that time which players would make both teams? Seems to me you don’t have that much knobs to twist to favour one or the other.