Draw based driver or turn loft up to close face?

[RyanWixom]

 

 

Question:

 

do draw based clubs some with some face closer already? When I turn the loft all the way up and close the face I’ve always had the best results (ping g425 10.5* lst) but the ball goes way to high.

 

Does the sft ping come with a face that’s closed a bit more or does the draw come completely from the different weight placement on the heel more? 
 

Trying to decide if I change my 10.5* lst head to a 9* and crank the loft back up or do I try and get a 10.5* sft head.  Comparisons at address? 

 

[Phabs]

Typically the draw based heads have more weight in the heel either by moveable or by factory hot melt…. Or both in some cases. 
 

Id suggest going to a lower lofted head and then lofting up.  Going from 9 to 10 on loft is a big difference from going 10.5 to 12*. 
 

Depending on your launch angle and carry numbers would decide where you go.  A 9* SFT head could be awesome, or a standard 9* head cranked up to 10 or 10.5.  Just have to honestly test it out 
 

 

Edited October 3 by Phabs

[Streuner]

This is a interesting question and can not be answered without seeing some tests and individual data. Like @Phabs said there are possibilities but this should be tested and you need to test it outdoor under realistic conditions. An indoor test and only data based impulse buy could be wrong (own experience) 

[Valtiel]

21 hours ago, RyanWixom said:

do draw based clubs some with some face closer already?

They very often do, yes. If you look at Taylormade for example many of their "draw" heads like the Stealth HD sit both more shut and more upright in their neutral setting. 

If you get good results now though, minus the height, then i'd just go with a lower loft in the same head. 

[Primo1868]

4 hours ago, Valtiel said:

They very often do, yes. If you look at Taylormade for example many of their "draw" heads like the Stealth HD sit both more shut and more upright in their neutral setting. 

If you get good results now though, minus the height, then i'd just go with a lower loft in the same head. 

First time I saw the stealth HD head in person I thought, "what the...". It looked like the face of the driver was offset towards the heel. Really uncomfortable for me to look at. 

[MilesVJackson]

one reason I like titleist drivers is the surefit adapter.  you can adjust the lie without bumping the loft up.

[bodhi555]

Personally I just buy a smaller headed Driver which is easier to turn over. 

 

I tried a bunch of 460cc stuff when I got my TS4, but went with the Titleist as it's the only one I could get to move both ways. 

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

This guy actually does a great job of explaining adjustable hosels.

I think the biggest assumption people make in trying to understand is they figure the shaft is parallel through the adapter and it opens or closes the face to make adjustments. So, how would that work when you square it at address? Yet, it's the angle of the shaft that creates the loft and lie changes (both at the same time).

Watch it. You'll understand.

 

Thi

[Boogeyman]

Personally I found that just by adjusting my driver to be more upright it helped quite a bit in taking the right side out of play (as a right handed golfer). So that's definitely worth at least giving a try.

[Stuart_G]

19 hours ago, Mikey_HACKilroy said:

Watch it. You'll understand.

 

A little long winded but not bad - at least up until the end.   The main problem is that he really doesn't understand the full potential consequences of the face angle change and how it can effect the player.  For some people it can be that simple, but for many it's WAY more complicated.    So his assumptions are not really assumptions you should make during the fitting process.

 

But it's not really all that hard for anyone to test how sensitive they might be to face angle changes.   Just go to the range and switch back and forth between the max loft setting and the min loft setting - and see what happens to the shot shape.   If there is no change to the shot shape, then face angle isn't something you have to worry about and it's not going to provide any shot shape bias.   If there is, then use the face angle to dial in the desired shot shape (or minimize the consequence or severity of a problematic shot shape).   Then for launch and spin tweaks - change the base head loft, not the adapter loft setting (assuming you're getting good center face contact).

 

Edited October 4 by Stuart_G

[HillbillyHoma]

Hard to say without seeing launch and spin numbers.

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

3 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

A little long winded but not bad - at least up until the end.   The main problem is that he really doesn't understand the full potential consequences of the face angle change and how it can effect the player.  For some people it can be that simple, but for many it's WAY more complicated.

 

 

This is true; although I cut it before the end because it IS indeed long winded. The most telling part for me was just tied to the rotation offset where it isn't parallel but I think a lot of folks assume it is and have never rolled the shaft in their hands to see it rotate off axis.

From the theoretical standpoint, it is at least that simple when you assume no changes at address. Although, yes, we both know that can indeed be an inaccurate assumption. 😄

 

[Stuart_G]

1 minute ago, Mikey_HACKilroy said:

The most telling part for me was just tied to the rotation offset where it isn't parallel but I think a lot of folks assume it is and have never rolled the shaft in their hands to see it rotate off axis.

 

That's been talked about (and pointed out) so much around here since the first adjustable hosels were introduced - that I have to admit that I do sometimes forget that it's not common knowledge among the general public.

 

 

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

6 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

That's been talked about (and pointed out) so much around here since the first adjustable hosels were introduced - that I have to admit that I do sometimes forget that it's not common knowledge among the general public.

 

 

 

Just based on what I've read I feel like those posts are only seen and remembered by a select few. Even I was mind boggled about it for a while LOL....

[me05501]

26 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

A little long winded but not bad - at least up until the end.   The main problem is that he really doesn't understand the full potential consequences of the face angle change and how it can effect the player.  For some people it can be that simple, but for many it's WAY more complicated.    So his assumptions are not really assumptions you should make during the fitting process.

 

But it's not really all that hard for anyone to test how sensitive they might be to face angle changes.   Just go to the range and switch back and forth between the max loft setting and the min loft setting - and see what happens to the shot shape.   If there is no change to the shot shape, then face angle isn't something you have to worry about and it's not going to provide any shot shape bias.   If there is, then use the face angle to dial in the desired shot shape (or minimize the consequence or severity of a problematic shot shape).   Then for launch and spin tweaks - change the base head loft, not the adapter loft setting (assuming you're getting good center face contact).

 

 

 

I've recently stumbled upon my own struggles with this after fighting pull hooks on the golf course. I realized that I was setting my up-lofted driver on its sole and building my grip and stance around it which allowed the face to close. On the range it was fairly easy to square up the face and restore my ball flight. I just have to be more conscious of how I set up on the golf course. 

 

I'm currently trying to decide between a 9* head at +2 and a 10.5* head at +1*. This information and my tendencies seem to indicate that using the 10.5* head would probably require less adjustment on my part. 

Edited October 4 by me05501

[Stuart_G]

3 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

 

I've recently stumbled upon my own struggles with this after fighting pull hooks on the golf course. I realized that I was setting my up-lofted driver on its sole and building my grip and stance around it which allowed the face to close. On the range it was fairly easy to square up the face and restore my ball flight. I just have to be more conscious of how I set up on the golf course. 

 

That's one possible way and can work for some - but not for me.   Even if it did work, I still don't think I'd take that approach.  I have enough to think about when I setup and get ready to swing, I personally prefer not to make it worse by adding any more thoughts to the process.

Edited October 4 by Stuart_G

[me05501]

1 minute ago, Stuart_G said:

 

That's one possible way.   But I have enough to think about when I setup and get ready to swing, I personally prefer not to make it worse by adding any more thoughts to the process.

 

Agree, and I prefer for everything to be as simple as possible. I just need to be aware of certain things that I'd been ignoring.