Jump to content
2024 Cognizant Classic WITB Pics ×

Morikawa 2-stroke penalty at Hero, explain please


Recommended Posts

Admittedly, I don’t really care about the green book penalties and stuff. I don’t use them, nobody I play with uses them. It’s not an issue. 
 

According to the broadcast today, Morikawa use a green reading device on the PRACTICE green before round 3.  “Those notes were written in the yardage book and those notes developed with that device were used on the 4th hole, which is against the Rules and why he was assessed a 2 shot penalty before the 4th round.”

 

Really? On the putting green? Or was it the the fact he made ANY notes. I know they are more strict now about what can and can’t be in the books now. 
 

Thanks. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Augster said:

Admittedly, I don’t really care about the green book penalties and stuff. I don’t use them, nobody I play with uses them. It’s not an issue. 
 

According to the broadcast today, Morikawa use a green reading device on the PRACTICE green before round 3.  “Those notes were written in the yardage book and those notes developed with that device were used on the 4th hole, which is against the Rules and why he was assessed a 2 shot penalty before the 4th round.”

 

Really? On the putting green? Or was it the the fact he made ANY notes. I know they are more strict now about what can and can’t be in the books now. 
 

Thanks. 

 

According to what I saw a short while ago, the fact that the notes were derived from using a device made those notes illegal to use during play.

 

But how he only used those particular notes on a SINGLE hole is what's puzzling to me.

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9.0 Ventus Blue 6S

Ping G425 14.5 Fairway Tour AD TP 6X

Ping G425 MAX 20.5 7 wood Diamana Blue 70 S

Titleist 716 AP-1  5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, DGS300

Taylormade MG3 52*, 56*, TW 60* DGS200

LAB Mezz Max 34*, RED, BGT Stability

Titleist Pro V1X

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, rogolf said:

 

Ahhhh, there it is.

 

Handwritten notes may contain information gained only through personal experiences of the player or the player’s caddie from the course or by watching a televised broadcast, but are limited to information gained:


➢ While observing a ball that was rolled or played (whether by the player, caddie or someone else) or


➢ Through the player’s or caddie’s feel or general observations of the putting
green.

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9.0 Ventus Blue 6S

Ping G425 14.5 Fairway Tour AD TP 6X

Ping G425 MAX 20.5 7 wood Diamana Blue 70 S

Titleist 716 AP-1  5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, DGS300

Taylormade MG3 52*, 56*, TW 60* DGS200

LAB Mezz Max 34*, RED, BGT Stability

Titleist Pro V1X

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, 1t2golf said:

How did Matt Snitchpatrick see the notes, that they were from a green reading device and know when they were used? Are all hand written notes prohibited? 

 

 

 

The post above your quotes the rule, you simply cannot use devices (such as a digital level) to assist you in making those notes.  Perhaps Colin's caddie was seen using a level on the course at some time.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, davep043 said:

The post above your quotes the rule, you simply cannot use devices (such as a digital level) to assist you in making those notes.  Perhaps Colin's caddie was seen using a level on the course at some time.

From golf.com

 

Cox met with JJ Jakovac, Morikawa’s caddie, about two hours before their 12:03 p.m. final-round tee time. After reviewing his yardage book, it became clear that Jakovac had created a putting chart, which isn’t a violation of the rules in itself, but the manner of obtaining the information is key to the ruling. Jakovac used a level on the practice putting green and wrote a note directly into his yardage book and used it for assessing the read on the fourth hole during Saturday’s third round.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can make a guess that the notes MIGHT have been about the calibration aspect of AimPoint, which has to do with how far you extend your arm based on the speed of the greens.  You’d use the level on the practice green to assess a sample of slopes, then putt to determine what that percent of slope meant at those particular green speeds.  
 

If I understood Morikawa’s post round interview, he had been reading his own putts without help from his caddie until the 4th hole yesterday.  If it was a 2% slope, that’s a lot of break, so the caddie steps in, then consults the book.  From memory would be fine; from written notes is not.

 

No idea how Fitzpatrick would have known about the written notes, but it may simply have been that he or his caddie saw Morikawa and his caddie using the level and then making notes on the practice green, then using them, which is not allowed.

 

It’s very tempting to flame Fitzpatrick for being a narc, but you MUST protect the field as a player in a golf tournament who observes a possible Rules violation.  The only thing I’d be curious about would be what, if any, conversation happened between the two players after the incident.  Perhaps Fitzpatrick warned him, and that’s why it didn’t happen again?  If so, good on Fitzpatrick for stepping up in a hard situation.

 

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, grm24 said:

From golf.com

 

Cox met with JJ Jakovac, Morikawa’s caddie, about two hours before their 12:03 p.m. final-round tee time. After reviewing his yardage book, it became clear that Jakovac had created a putting chart, which isn’t a violation of the rules in itself, but the manner of obtaining the information is key to the ruling. Jakovac used a level on the practice putting green and wrote a note directly into his yardage book and used it for assessing the read on the fourth hole during Saturday’s third round.

He only used this information to make notes on one hole?  He didn't make any other notes about green breaking for any other hole?  If a level was used on the practice green to tell the caddie, "Hey, a 2.6% slope causes 13.5" of break at 20'," or whatever, how is that information not going to be distributed for all of the green reading notes in that book?

 

I'm a bit perplexed about exactly what was written where and using which information.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Lobby said:

Another bs rule from the USGA that actually damages the game. 
 

these guys remind me of an out of control Home Owners Association penalizing you if your trash cans are in the wrong place

I don’t think this is the USGA.  I could be wrong, but I think these are PGA Tour rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, bluedot said:

I don’t think this is the USGA.  I could be wrong, but I think these are PGA Tour rules.

 

The PGA Tour doesn't make up their own rules.

 

The MLR was linked to up above.

 

Edited by iacas
  • Like 2

Erik J. Barzeski | Erie, PA

GEARS • GCQuad/FlightScope • #FeelAintReal

I like the truth and facts. I don't deal in magic grits: 22.

 

"Golf is the only game in which a precise knowledge of the rules can earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship." — Pat Campbell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

He only used this information to make notes on one hole?  He didn't make any other notes about green breaking for any other hole?  If a level was used on the practice green to tell the caddie, "Hey, a 2.6% slope causes 13.5" of break at 20'," or whatever, how is that information not going to be distributed for all of the green reading notes in that book?

 

I'm a bit perplexed about exactly what was written where and using which information.

I think the formula they devised on the practice green using the level is the issue; they could use that from memory, but they couldn’t consult the notes in the yardage book, which the caddie did only on that one green.  It’s not about THAT green; it’s the work they did on the practice green with a measuring device, and then consulting the written notes while playing.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, iacas said:

 

The PGA Tour doesn't make up their own rules.

 

The MLR was linked to up above.

 

Further to that, the MLR are produced by a joint Rules Committee, which includes the USGA and the R&A;  there's one set of Rules worldwide.

And to support use of the MLR, I much prefer to see players reading greens (a required skill) rather than reading a yardage book!

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, bluedot said:

I think the formula they devised on the practice green using the level is the issue; they could use that from memory, but they couldn’t consult the notes in the yardage book, which the caddie did only on that one green.  It’s not about THAT green; it’s the work they did on the practice green with a measuring device, and then consulting the written notes while playing.

What if he or the caddie had written it on their arm?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Lobby said:

Another bs rule from the USGA that actually damages the game. 
 

these guys remind me of an out of control Home Owners Association penalizing you if your trash cans are in the wrong place

Nonsense. One single, permitted approach for every player in the event. And one guy abused the rule. 

 

The Ruling Bodies are simply protecting something resembling the traditional game from a total, technology takeover by profit-motivated entities. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I would the thrilled to hear how limiting reading of slopes of the greens using clinometer and such devices damages the game.


Because it evolved as a simple game, played quickly; even quicker once we got sheep out of the bunkers, and that’s how it should stay. Ban “ gadget men “.

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Lobby said:

Another bs rule from the USGA that actually damages the game. 
 

these guys remind me of an out of control Home Owners Association penalizing you if your trash cans are in the wrong place

Yep.

 

Further proven by the amount of 'reactive' rules implemented over the years. Like when someone paints their house pink and a rule is made afterwards to keep them from doing it again 😂

 

Golf is its own worst enemy 90% of the time.

ZX5 LS  8.5°@9.5 + TR6 PARADYMTC 15°@16 + UB6 / MAVRIKTC 18° + UB8 G430 26°@25+ IZ95 / FRGD TEC5-G + MODUS115 / MD5TC / Futura 5W 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, denkea said:

How about the issue of using a 'coin like object' to mark a ball?  The USGA allows a ball to be marked with different things.  The PGA tour does not.  

 

PGA Tour also requires long trousers for men. There is no Rule of Golf for that.

 

What is the problem here as you see it? There are hundreds and thousands of sports events in the world where there are some requirements not dictated by the rules of that sport but by the organizing party.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, denkea said:

How about the issue of using a 'coin like object' to mark a ball?  The USGA allows a ball to be marked with different things.  The PGA tour does not.  

Does the PGA Tour assess Penalty Strokes for this?  Do you have the actual rule for us to read?  The Tour does have conditions of competition which go beyond the actual Rules of Golf, and there may be fines or other discipline involved, but there won't be Penalty Strokes other than are defined under the Rules of Golf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

Yep.

 

Further proven by the amount of 'reactive' rules implemented over the years. Like when someone paints their house pink and a rule is made afterwards to keep them from doing it again 😂

 

Golf is its own worst enemy 90% of the time.

 

So.... what you seem to imply is that there should be no development in the Rules whatsoever. Nice approach.

 

I guess you also protest against any removing of loopholes in national laws as that is reactive 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, denkea said:

How about the issue of using a 'coin like object' to mark a ball?  The USGA allows a ball to be marked with different things.  The PGA tour does not.  

 

You replied to me, and I was going to reply, but… @Mr. Bean and @davep043 covered it IMO:

 

4 minutes ago, davep043 said:

Does the PGA Tour assess Penalty Strokes for this?  Do you have the actual rule for us to read?  The Tour does have conditions of competition which go beyond the actual Rules of Golf, and there may be fines or other discipline involved, but there won't be Penalty Strokes other than are defined under the Rules of Golf.

Erik J. Barzeski | Erie, PA

GEARS • GCQuad/FlightScope • #FeelAintReal

I like the truth and facts. I don't deal in magic grits: 22.

 

"Golf is the only game in which a precise knowledge of the rules can earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship." — Pat Campbell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See the link below.  This was a PGA Tour "rule" at the time.  The outcome was that the Tour then realized that it wasn't part of the Rules of golf and removed their "rule" to conform with the RoG.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/a-hungover-david-feherty-once-got-penalized-for-using-a-hotel-key-as-a-ball-marker

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies
    • 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Tuesday #1
       
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nick Hardy - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Seamus Power - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Hadwin - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Kurt Kitayama - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Byeong Hun An - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nicolai Hojgaard - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Sam Burns - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Brandon Wu - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      JT Poston - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nick Dunlap - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Alex Smalley - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Pau Gasol WITB (2x NBA Champion, 6x All-Star) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Josh Allen WITB (NFL Quarterback, Buffalo Bills) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Matt Kuchar - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      JJ Spaun - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Jordan Spieth - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Svensson - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Scott (mini) - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Taylor Moore - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ping putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      TaylorMade putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Pebble Beach Golf Links (holes 7 & 8) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Odyssey putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Lucas Glover going to test black Srixon ZX5 & ZX7 irons - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Justin Thomas wrist training aid - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Stephen Sweeney's Putting Ballistic putting training aid - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Chris Kirk club changes - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
       
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
      The course was closed all day today (Monday) because of rain so no WITBs today
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Tuesday #1
      2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Tuesday #2
      2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Tuesday #3
      2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Tuesday #4
      2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Tuesday #5
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Gary Woodland - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Chris Gotterup - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ludvig Aberg - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Max Homa - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Chan Kim - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Michael Block - SoCal PGA Section champ - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Hideki Matsuyama - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Collin Morikawa - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ryan Fox - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Robert MacIntyre - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ben Griffin - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Matthieu Pavon - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Alejandro Tosti - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Jason Day WITB – 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Daniel Berger WITB – 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New 2Thumb grip - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Chesson Hadley's new Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ben Kohles' new Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Vincent Whaley's new Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ryo Hisatsune's new Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Charley Hoffman - custom Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      TaylorMade Tour X - X3 putter with milled metal insert - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Maverick McNealy's custom Odyssey staff bag - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ben Baller's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      New LA Golf single bend graphite putter shaft - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Swag Golf's - Channel 4 Headcovers - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      L.A. Golf 120-gram prototype putter shaft – 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      L.A. Golf "gold edition" driver shaft – 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      L.A. Golf prototype putters with new "exotic metal" face insert – 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 11 replies

×
×
  • Create New...