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What is the main purpose of the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer?


dennispullhook

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I used the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer and I liked the recommended shaft, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

So I was wondering: Are the recommended shafts the best for finding the sweet spot most of the time? Or do they just deliver the best ball flight IF the player hits the sweet spot?

 

Personally, I would always prefer a shaft that helps me find the sweet spot over one that gives me the best ball flight.

Edited by dennispullhook
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I think it gives you at least three choices. I guess it’s a place for your fitter to start. When I did it, the first recommendation was Recoil 95, and the second was Steelfibers 95. I liked the feel of the Steelfibers better, but all the numbers for the Recoils were better. I can’t remember the third option, but the #1 option Recoils beat every one.

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In my experience the optimizer will recommend a weight class of shaft based on the 5 inputted values.

A good starting point to then experiment with different profiles and flex’s.

M3 9.5* / Atmos Black Tour Spec
M4 16.5* / Hzrdus Black
M4 Hybrid 19* / KBS Prototype
P-770 / Project X LZ 6.0
52* / 58* Black Milled Grind Wedge / KBS Custom
59* Original Trusty Rusty / Hump shaft
60* Raw Milled Grind Wedge / KBS Custom
Toulon Garage Columbus Triple Black
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A shaft can help you with your swing, can hinder your movement or can be more or less neutral. The optimizer from Mizuno is a tool to find a fit for your swing that is more on the helping side and for sure will not hinder you. The optimizer will not tell you anything about feel or likes / dislikes… 

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What exactly does "Toe Down" stands for? The guy at the fitting center said it means my irons should be +3° upright. But somewhere I read Toe Down is all about Shaft Droop. So if your Toe Down number is high, you need a Shaft with less Shaft Droop maybe?

Edited by dennispullhook
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Properly used the optimizer can establish a ballpark starting point for a fitting. Since all shafts are in the Mizuno cart you can test in the same head and quickly identify which way to go from there. Obviously that last part depends on the fitter in question. It is not (and not meant to be) a 1-2-3 and you're fit device, it is an extra tool for a fitter.

 

shaftoptimizeruserguide.png.9479f78612301d2f3a93e0a3992275c4.png

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15 hours ago, dennispullhook said:

I used the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer and I liked the recommended shaft, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

So I was wondering: Are the recommended shafts the best for finding the sweet spot most of the time? Or do they just deliver the best ball flight IF the player hits the sweet spot?

 

Personally, I would always prefer a shaft that helps me find the sweet spot over one that gives me the best ball flight.

 

It's only a recommendation based on what shafts (historically / statistically / believed) have been found to work for people with similar swing characteristics. 

 

There is no special "tuning" or sweet spot or ball flight prediction or compensation involved, and despite the name, it's not really optimizing anything specific about the ball flight.  

 

More importantly, it does NOT account for the subjective variations in player preferences for feel - both stiffness and weight - or how those feels might effect the swing and ball flight results.   So even at it's best, it's only a starting place for the fitting process.   The fitter and player have to work together to refine the selection process through actual testing.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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17 hours ago, HeadCovered said:

Nobody else has the Optimiser in any way shape or form, if you noticed! Everybody else are guessing, whereas Mizuno has their data inputted based on those data points that give you the best choices, and they are very accurate. 

The purpose is to give you the best options 

From what I’ve heard from several fitters, a lot of guys are using the shaft optimizer regardless of what brand they are fitting.

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I went through three iron fittings last year. The first at Golftec, the second at PXG and the third at a Mizuno demo day with the Shaft optimizer.  I am 55 years old and swing the driver approximately 90 miles an hour. Seven iron distance is about 145.
 

Golftec — Steelfiber i95 reg

PXG — Mitsubishi MMT 70 reg

Mizuno — KBS 120 stiff (did it twice, same result)

 

Obviously, the shaft optimizer returned a result that I never would have expected. In fairness, I did hit the shaft okay, but no how no way should a 55-year-old guy with a 90 mile an hour swing speed be using KBS 120 g stiff flex shaft.

 

 

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14 hours ago, e-man said:

I went through three iron fittings last year. The first at Golftec, the second at PXG and the third at a Mizuno demo day with the Shaft optimizer.  I am 55 years old and swing the driver approximately 90 miles an hour. Seven iron distance is about 145.
 

Golftec — Steelfiber i95 reg

PXG — Mitsubishi MMT 70 reg

Mizuno — KBS 120 stiff (did it twice, same result)

 

Obviously, the shaft optimizer returned a result that I never would have expected. In fairness, I did hit the shaft okay, but no how no way should a 55-year-old guy with a 90 mile an hour swing speed be using KBS 120 g stiff flex shaft.

 

 

 

Sorry, but it's just not correct to make that kind of blanket statement.  The feel of a shaft is a huge contributor to performance and, while there is the assumption that lighter is always faster, it is possible for someone to swing a heavier shaft faster and/or better if it fits the feel they are looking for. 

 

Clearly the Mizuno optimizer picked up something in your swing that lined up with the KBS 120, which is why it was suggested... I'm curious to know what shafts the optimizer offered as the additional choices.

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Titleist TSR4, 7.25*, Aldila Rogue Black 95 MSI 70 S
Titleist TS3, 14.25*, Speeder VC 8.2 Tour Spec X
Titleist 818 H2 17*, Speeder VC 8.8 HB Tour Spec S
Mizuno MP H5, 3 iron, C Taper Lite X
Mizuno MP H5 (4&5), MP 5 (6-PW), DG X100 SSx1
Cleveland RTX6 54/12 (bent to 53*) Raw & 58/10 Black, DG Spinner
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39 minutes ago, grochol17 said:

 

Sorry, but it's just not correct to make that kind of blanket statement.  The feel of a shaft is a huge contributor to performance and, while there is the assumption that lighter is always faster, it is possible for someone to swing a heavier shaft faster and/or better if it fits the feel they are looking for. 

 

Clearly the Mizuno optimizer picked up something in your swing that lined up with the KBS 120, which is why it was suggested... I'm curious to know what shafts the optimizer offered as the additional choices.


Fair statement.  And the truth is, I did hit the KBS 120 stiff well.  It’s just that the three fittings yielded such different results, and based on my age and swing speed, just didn’t seem like a good fit.  One of the other shafts recommended was KBS 115 stiff, but I seemed to hit the 120 better. 

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I think you mean Modus 115?

Titleist TSR2 10*| MCA Tensei AV blue (SFW) Xlink 55 S

Titleist TSR2 3 HL 16.5*| MCA Tensei AV blue Xlink 65 S

Titleist TSR2 7 Wood 21*| MCA Tensei AV blue Xlink 75 S

Mizuno JPX 923 Forged 4-GW| N.S. Pro Modus³ Tour 105 S

Cleveland RTX 6 Zipcore 54* & 58*| N.S. Pro Modus³ Tour 115 Wedge
Ping 2023 Anser
Srixon Z Star

 

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2 hours ago, pjc said:

I think you mean Modus 115?


Yep, you’re right.

 

I currently play AP1 710s with Nippon 105t shafts (108g reg flex).  They are just too heavy.  So going into an even heavier shaft just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me in the long term.  I’m 55 and not getting any younger . . .

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It might not been the stated weight of the shaft but rather where the weight is “placed” in the shaft. KBS shafts have a higher balance point so the might make the head feel lighter.

But is SO player dependent, everyone who holds a club feels something different. Remember that there is also NO industry standard for measuring flex.

M3 9.5* / Atmos Black Tour Spec
M4 16.5* / Hzrdus Black
M4 Hybrid 19* / KBS Prototype
P-770 / Project X LZ 6.0
52* / 58* Black Milled Grind Wedge / KBS Custom
59* Original Trusty Rusty / Hump shaft
60* Raw Milled Grind Wedge / KBS Custom
Toulon Garage Columbus Triple Black
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4 hours ago, e-man said:


Yep, you’re right.

 

I currently play AP1 710s with Nippon 105t shafts (108g reg flex).  They are just too heavy.  So going into an even heavier shaft just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me in the long term.  I’m 55 and not getting any younger . . .

 

One thing the optimizer cannot account for is how you'll do with a shaft over the course of 18 holes.  They might work great on the range during warm up, but if you think they are too heavy for you, your ball striking might deteriorate over the course of the round. 

Titleist TSR4, 7.25*, Aldila Rogue Black 95 MSI 70 S
Titleist TS3, 14.25*, Speeder VC 8.2 Tour Spec X
Titleist 818 H2 17*, Speeder VC 8.8 HB Tour Spec S
Mizuno MP H5, 3 iron, C Taper Lite X
Mizuno MP H5 (4&5), MP 5 (6-PW), DG X100 SSx1
Cleveland RTX6 54/12 (bent to 53*) Raw & 58/10 Black, DG Spinner
Piretti Potenza 1.5
Ball - Titleist AVX Yellow

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8 hours ago, e-man said:


Fair statement.  And the truth is, I did hit the KBS 120 stiff well.  It’s just that the three fittings yielded such different results, and based on my age and swing speed, just didn’t seem like a good fit.  One of the other shafts recommended was KBS 115 stiff, but I seemed to hit the 120 better. 

 

I would like to have seen the DISPERSON data of those 3 shafts side by side. 

 

 

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I went against the mizuno recomendations for a while then I finally gave in.  It always told me KBS Tour 130, $ taper 130 and Modus 130 in that order IIRC.  I went DGx100 and modus 120 tx before giving in to the kbs tours and I'm not changing iron shafts against the mizunio optimizer for a while.  it was right and I was wrong. 

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TSi3 10 @ 10.75 Ventus Black 6x 45"

TS2 15* Hzrdus smoke black 70g 6.5 43"

TS3 18* Hzrdus smoke black RDX  80g 6.5 41.5"

New Level NLU-01 22* and 25* Hzrdus smoke black rdx 100g 6.5
New Level 902-OS 6-P (KBS tour 130x) -1* weak on each

Vokey sm8 50@49/12 KBS $ taper HT 130, Sm9 54@53/10S,

58/4T KBS $ taper HT 125 or 58/8m DGx100 mid TI
L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1 35"/ 69* Press II

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On 12/8/2023 at 11:47 AM, B_of_H said:

I went against the mizuno recomendations for a while then I finally gave in.  It always told me KBS Tour 130, $ taper 130 and Modus 130 in that order IIRC.  I went DGx100 and modus 120 tx before giving in to the kbs tours and I'm not changing iron shafts against the mizunio optimizer for a while.  it was right and I was wrong. 

What are your 7 iron and driver club head speeds?

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36 minutes ago, Irish452 said:

What are your 7 iron and driver club head speeds?

 

93/112 although it can vary a little bit day to day.  If I full send a driver it hits about 115-118 on a good day.  the kbs tours don't spin for me more than x100 for whatever reason, in fact a little less.  i've hit them side by side many times. 

TSi3 10 @ 10.75 Ventus Black 6x 45"

TS2 15* Hzrdus smoke black 70g 6.5 43"

TS3 18* Hzrdus smoke black RDX  80g 6.5 41.5"

New Level NLU-01 22* and 25* Hzrdus smoke black rdx 100g 6.5
New Level 902-OS 6-P (KBS tour 130x) -1* weak on each

Vokey sm8 50@49/12 KBS $ taper HT 130, Sm9 54@53/10S,

58/4T KBS $ taper HT 125 or 58/8m DGx100 mid TI
L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1 35"/ 69* Press II

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42 minutes ago, B_of_H said:

 

93/112 although it can vary a little bit day to day.  If I full send a driver it hits about 115-118 on a good day.  the kbs tours don't spin for me more than x100 for whatever reason, in fact a little less.  i've hit them side by side many times. 

My speeds were 90/105 and it recommended $ taper 130 which I thought was odd since my swing speeds aren’t super high. 

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On 12/7/2023 at 3:36 PM, e-man said:


Yep, you’re right.

 

I currently play AP1 710s with Nippon 105t shafts (108g reg flex).  They are just too heavy.  So going into an even heavier shaft just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me in the long term.  I’m 55 and not getting any younger . . .

I played that shaft in the AP1 710s and then 712s up until last year.  I'm 71.  I was fit for senior graphite in a local Titleist fitting, but they didn't work when I got them.  I am playing Nippon 950 GH NEO R now, and that shaft is lovely.

 

and the opposite of what the Optimizer gave has your best fit.  With your swing speed, you might try the 950 NEO in stiff.

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
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4 hours ago, Irish452 said:

My speeds were 90/105 and it recommended $ taper 130 which I thought was odd since my swing speeds aren’t super high. 

 

I think with the right player those speeds could be fine with either the tour or $ taper.  I didn't give kbs a shot because everyone said they launch way higher and spin more but it wasn't the case for me when I tried it.  

TSi3 10 @ 10.75 Ventus Black 6x 45"

TS2 15* Hzrdus smoke black 70g 6.5 43"

TS3 18* Hzrdus smoke black RDX  80g 6.5 41.5"

New Level NLU-01 22* and 25* Hzrdus smoke black rdx 100g 6.5
New Level 902-OS 6-P (KBS tour 130x) -1* weak on each

Vokey sm8 50@49/12 KBS $ taper HT 130, Sm9 54@53/10S,

58/4T KBS $ taper HT 125 or 58/8m DGx100 mid TI
L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1 35"/ 69* Press II

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The only positive I got out of it was it said I have a very quick transition. That has led me to seek out driver and wood shafts that have a stiff mid-section yet more active tip, which led me to the HZRDUS Smoke Red RDX for my driver. This has been a fantastic fit for me in the 60 gram 5.5 shaft. 
 

But on the iron side of things (after doing it twice because I couldn’t believe the ridiculous list it spit out), it suggested:

1) C-taper X-stiff

2) Project X 6.5

3) DG X-100

Folks, I’m turning 50 this summer. I have a driver SS in the low 90’s. Im 5’5, 155 pounds, and a long history of knee problems. There is NO WAY I’m swinging 130 gram X-stiff shafts 😂

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Tour Edge c721/HZRDUS Smoke Red RDX

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Maltby TS3 6-Gap w/Nippon N.S. Pro 1050GH

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