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Ed-flip

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This might be covered already but I'm a little confused. What if anything is preventing me from buying iron heads and creating a one length setup. Say 4-9iron.   Is there differences in head weighting?


Id really love the new srixon zx5's and im not opposed to variable length as that's what i play currently.  I just want to try the experiment in a non cobra setup.

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head weights are the problem. Long irons will be very heavy and wedges crazy light. 

 

Honestly I have the cobra forged tec 2023's and they are as good as anything you will hit from Taylormade or anyone else. 

WITB: 

Aerojet 10.5 Ventus 7S

Cobra Tec 17, 21, 24 hybrids

Cobra Forged One Length 2022 LA Golf Bryson Shafts

Cobra Forged One Length 54/60

 

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2 hours ago, grantc79 said:

head weights are the problem. Long irons will be very heavy and wedges crazy light. 

 

Honestly I have the cobra forged tec 2023's and they are as good as anything you will hit from Taylormade or anyone else. 

 

That's what I was afraid of.  I currently game the 2015 model forged tec, and am content with them.  But I do want to experiment and I love the look of the new srixon's or mizunos.

 

Is there a feasible way to match head weights, I'm assuming to 7/8 iron weight.  Lead tape to add weight, but to take weight away?  

Edited by Ed-flip
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there is A LOT of concepts and science that go into OL......like grant said, you cant just take a set and cut/make them the same length and think it will it will work out, your long irons will be very short....head weight is a HUGE part of it and they all need to be the same, you are making all irons into a 7 or 8 or whatever not just in length put in weight....also i know with mine the shafts are tipped at different points, to create the optimal launch/flex depending on where the weight was added/taken from, some in the form of heavier shafts and some in tip weights....there is a lot that goes into it and cobra has really dialed it over the years, which is why i dont understand people saying there is "gapping" issues with OL, because IMO they are using either older sets or something wasnt done right....I was fitted for mine and I swing every one of my irons 85-88 mph, which allows the clubs to do what they were designed to do......hope it helps, but i would say unless you are a master builder or have a great understanding of the concept you are cheating yourself the experience of what is a true OL set.....Cobra IMO is a great place to get a set, and its worth the money if its something you are really wanting.

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Yes, head weights. They all need to be the same.

The Lie angle need to be the same, 

and that means the sole has to be the same, as in, the bounces will all have to be the same, 

even though all the lofts are different.

 

As for Bryson's and what Cobra is doing - the COR and CG placements are all different from club to club to match those things above. As in, if you were to take the Srixon ZX5 and just went ahead and bent them and ground them down to make the weights match - the COR will be too slow in the long clubs comparatively speaking to be used in one-lengths that your gapping will be messed up, they will all be bunched up, is why Bryson has clubs that are tuned to have faster COR (to the limit) gradually getting faster and faster from the shorter to the longer. 

 

That is the basic crux of how one-lengths are built now in the modern game, something that they could not quite do so well 50 years ago, as thin-face tech and multi-material construction and such were not good enough to be built into a golf club head at a reasonable price nor good enough for construction integrity with welding and epoxy to be able to be a golf club weight

 

 

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I have built many "near" Single-Length setups, or heavily reduced length increment sets, with standard heads.   

 

I initially started out building 9-LW all Single-Length at 36.0".  I had to drill out the hosels on GW-SW-LW to keep the weight down.

 

Then from 9i on up, I went up in 3/8" increments in an MOI build.   This means each successive club is 0.5 SWP lighter than the previous.  Next experiment was 9-8-7i in 3/8" increments with 7-6-5i in 1/4" increments.  Next experiment was 1/4" increments.  Then 1/8" increments.

 

I had to get very creative with adding a lot of weight to 7-6-5i.  You can get 9g tungsten tip weights for graphite shafts from Wishon Golf.  You can get 14g lead tip weights for steel shafts on eBay. But even that much weight is not enough.  I also bought weighted ferrules from eBay seller BigFootGolf as he makes aluminum ( 4g ), stainless steel ( 13g ), brass ( 14g ), and copper ( 15g ) ferrules.   And then you can always add lead tape.  Even though they are buildable, I found the 6-i and 5i to feel a bit cluncky feeling, for lack of a better word.

 

My previous 2 builds were with 2021 T200 heads and then Wilson D9 Forged.  These are a bit higher launching in the longer irons, which help a bit with the lack of swing-speed from shorter shafts. 

 

I am now into the Edel SMS Pro irons as their weight system makes tinkering a breeze for changing SW resulting from shaft changes, SW preference, etc.  Search for Edel threads and you will come across threads for their single length SLS irons, and also by user @Drrussell who has SLS but also SMS Pro and making those into SL.

 

If you want to experiment with shorter length without getting too extreme in build requirements, I suggest 9-LW Single Length at 36.0" , then 3/8" increments for 9-8-7i , then 1/4" from 7-6-5i.  And embrace hybrids.

 

I went down this road long ago as I realized I run out of swing-speed.  If I can't generate any more club-head speed with 5i at 38" than I do with a 5i at 37-1/4" , then why have it at 38" ?  I will find the centre of the 5i face more consistently at its shorter length.  Sure, if I really stripe one at 38" it might go farther, but on average, what playing length gives me a better average outcome.  That's my thinking anyway.

Edited by ARL67
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Edel SMS and PXG irons you can do most of the tinkering with just because of the weighting system but as others have said thats not the whole problem. 

You would spend a lot of time and money and build something that isnt as good as the Cobra Forged 2022 One Lengths. The original Cobra King Forged One lengths are also great irons the original ones bryson uses. 

 

Those are basically blades if you want a true players iron. 

 

If you want the longer distance game improvement ones the 2022 forged one lengths play very very similar to the Taylormade P 770s. 

 

Unless you have a bryson like tour van at your disposal, you aren't going to get anything better and they are priced pretty aggressively right now cobra gives 10-15% off all the time. 

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WITB: 

Aerojet 10.5 Ventus 7S

Cobra Tec 17, 21, 24 hybrids

Cobra Forged One Length 2022 LA Golf Bryson Shafts

Cobra Forged One Length 54/60

 

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I was just getting on golfwrx to update my thread on building my customer single length irons using the EDEL SMS Pro irons. Over the winter I will be tweaking lofts to address a few issues. Today was my first real session where I went through and hit 4-5 shots with every club. You can check out the other thread if you want to see the kind of math that was going on to build the clubs and make them right. 

 

Here are the numbers from my single length Edel irons today. Please note, none of the club measurements are accurate. I didn’t have stickers on the clubs as I was really looking at ball data. 

 

 

 

IMG_0070.jpeg

Edited by Drrussell
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16 hours ago, grantc79 said:

Edel SMS and PXG irons you can do most of the tinkering with just because of the weighting system but as others have said thats not the whole problem. 

You would spend a lot of time and money and build something that isnt as good as the Cobra Forged 2022 One Lengths. The original Cobra King Forged One lengths are also great irons the original ones bryson uses. 

 

Those are basically blades if you want a true players iron. 

 

If you want the longer distance game improvement ones the 2022 forged one lengths play very very similar to the Taylormade P 770s. 

 

Unless you have a bryson like tour van at your disposal, you aren't going to get anything better and they are priced pretty aggressively right now cobra gives 10-15% off all the time. 

Bryson switched to Ping irons. He doesn’t play Cobra. That being said, Cobra irons are fantastic. I have played every model of their single length clubs since the F7’s came out and they have gotten better every year. There are a few things I didn’t like about Cobra irons from a specification perspective so I did pretty heavily modify my Cobras too. 

 

Another set that you can probably find and would be worth considering is the Edel SLS01’s. These irons are probably, technically, the best single length irons because the shafts are specifically designed to optimize flight. Unlike Cobra, the lie angles are the same and the size of each clubhead is also the same. With Cobra because they have different blade lengths, they also use different lie angles through the set and they don’t use special shafts in their standard config…

 

That being said, until my Edel project, the Forged Tec One length irons were the best irons I had ever owned. Their game improvement single length clubs are super forgiving. I don’t think you could go wrong if you made the decision to go Cobra. Just know, with any single length irons, the standard lofts are not ideal for proper gapping (club speed dependent).

Edited by Drrussell
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On 12/7/2023 at 8:32 AM, Ed-flip said:

This might be covered already but I'm a little confused. What if anything is preventing me from buying iron heads and creating a one length setup. Say 4-9iron.   Is there differences in head weighting?


Id really love the new srixon zx5's and im not opposed to variable length as that's what i play currently.  I just want to try the experiment in a non cobra setup.

Gosh, where to start?

 

- Regular clubs have different blade lengths from long to short irons. Cobra believe in different blade lengths for one lengths. Hence even if head weights are the same, the shaft will deflect differently during the loading and unloading process. Hence Cobra have tweaked lie angles to account for this phenomenon.

 

- The one length system results in less club speed for the long irons and more for the short. And lower speed will for the most part result in less distance  in irons (all things being equal). Something has to compensate for the approximately 2.9 mph lost in speed for every (half) inch shorter shaft. 

 

Someone please correct me if I am off as I went down this rabbit hole years ago.

 

- Similarly something needs to be done to deaden the wedge and lower ball speed to accommodate the extra speed generated in the short irons.

 

- Due to the abovementioned lower swing/ball speed in the long irons, the launch will also be lower unless compensations are made ie. Hotter face + shaft with higher launch etc.

 

- Vice versa is true in the short iron launch. The faster speed results in higher and longer wedge shots if nothing is done to the clubhead to lower ball speed and launch ie. move mass / CG around + lower launching shaft.

 

What I found is that shafts played a huge role in dialling a set for every player. The kick point, the tip and overall bend profile really needs individual attention in the way it matches the clubhead and the loading/unloading profile of a player. I am yet to find a set of steel shafts that does the job satisfactorily.

 

The above are why, IMHO one lengths never took off commercially the way they should from a functionality perspective. The amount of tweaking for every player to dial in a set is cost prohibitive. Furthermore the cost of R & D for steel shafts is exponentially higher than that for proto graphite shafts. Hence there's no real steel option for one length sets. Further adding to the cost of one length irons.

 

In the end all we ended up with was a great one length driving iron for my son whenever he played in Florida where the winds were a factor.

 

Realistically there are alot of other tweaks, but it was quite some time ago and I've literally forgotten more than I remember.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tugu
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11 hours ago, Tugu said:

Gosh, where to start?

 

- Regular clubs have different blade lengths from long to short irons. Cobra believe in different blade lengths for one lengths. Hence even if head weights are the same, the shaft will deflect differently during the loading and unloading process. Hence Cobra have tweaked lie angles to account for this phenomenon.

 

- The one length system results in less club speed for the long irons and more for the short. And lower speed will for the most part result in less distance  in irons (all things being equal). Something has to compensate for the approximately 2.9 mph lost in speed for every (half) inch shorter shaft. 

 

Someone please correct me if I am off as I went down this rabbit hole years ago.

 

- Similarly something needs to be done to deaden the wedge and lower ball speed to accommodate the extra speed generated in the short irons.

 

- Due to the abovementioned lower swing/ball speed in the long irons, the launch will also be lower unless compensations are made ie. Hotter face + shaft with higher launch etc.

 

- Vice versa is true in the short iron launch. The faster speed results in higher and longer wedge shots if nothing is done to the clubhead to lower ball speed and launch ie. move mass / CG around + lower launching shaft.

 

What I found is that shafts played a huge role in dialling a set for every player. The kick point, the tip and overall bend profile really needs individual attention in the way it matches the clubhead and the loading/unloading profile of a player. I am yet to find a set of steel shafts that does the job satisfactorily.

 

The above are why, IMHO one lengths never took off commercially the way they should from a functionality perspective. The amount of tweaking for every player to dial in a set is cost prohibitive. Furthermore the cost of R & D for steel shafts is exponentially higher than that for proto graphite shafts. Hence there's no real steel option for one length sets. Further adding to the cost of one length irons.

 

In the end all we ended up with was a great one length driving iron for my son whenever he played in Florida where the winds were a factor.

 

Realistically there are alot of other tweaks, but it was quite some time ago and I've literally forgotten more than I remember.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You aren’t wrong, but you are missing part of the equation. Force is equal to mass times acceleration. So, yes, the club is shorter/longer but to counter that the mass of the single length head is heavier/lighter. With single length clubs head weights are the same which makes them heavier than the head of a long iron…and it makes them lighter than the head of a short iron. That’s why you can hit a 4i-LW with a single length club the same distance as a 4 iron with a longer club. 

 

In my testing, I have found that the weight alone does not make up for the difference in speed. But it makes it very close. Then you have the advantage of using the club length which reduces variables…causing more center strikes (which also gives more distance). This is why for an average golfer their longest 4i with a variable length club may be a little further than their longest with a single length 4i. However, because they center up the shorter 4i more often, their average distance would actually be longer with the single length club. 

 

For the shafts, it probably comes down to the golfer. I never needed to go to special shafts until the last couple years where I was starting to see some slow-down in my speed. Cobra has done an amazing job over the years of building their irons so each iron flies like you would expect (compared to first gen clubs where short clubs flew super high and long clubs flew super low. Edel had that fixed because they used special shafts that helped flight the ball. 

 

It’s really not all that difficult to convert a set of irons. If you are willing to get the right shafts they can make up for a lot of the head configurations. Edel does help people do something very similar to what @ARL67 has done. They take regular heads with their shafts and go to a 2 or 3 step iron configuration. 

 

@grantc79 said it right that logically, if you are going to try to convert clubs to single length, the Edel or PXG are the logical choices because it’s not too difficult to make head weights pretty close to the same. PXG told me they could not support making the customizations. Edel agreed to work with me and send me the weight configurations I wanted in each head. Further, if you use the Paderson shafts they also said that total weight is more important than clubhead weight. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Drrussell said:

You aren’t wrong, but you are missing part of the equation. Force is equal to mass times acceleration. So, yes, the club is shorter/longer but to counter that the mass of the single length head is heavier/lighter. With single length clubs head weights are the same which makes them heavier than the head of a long iron…and it makes them lighter than the head of a short iron. That’s why you can hit a 4i-LW with a single length club the same distance as a 4 iron with a longer club. 

 

In my testing, I have found that the weight alone does not make up for the difference in speed. But it makes it very close. Then you have the advantage of using the club length which reduces variables…causing more center strikes (which also gives more distance). This is why for an average golfer their longest 4i with a variable length club may be a little further than their longest with a single length 4i. However, because they center up the shorter 4i more often, their average distance would actually be longer with the single length club. 

 

For the shafts, it probably comes down to the golfer. I never needed to go to special shafts until the last couple years where I was starting to see some slow-down in my speed. Cobra has done an amazing job over the years of building their irons so each iron flies like you would expect (compared to first gen clubs where short clubs flew super high and long clubs flew super low. Edel had that fixed because they used special shafts that helped flight the ball. 

 

It’s really not all that difficult to convert a set of irons. If you are willing to get the right shafts they can make up for a lot of the head configurations. Edel does help people do something very similar to what @ARL67 has done. They take regular heads with their shafts and go to a 2 or 3 step iron configuration. 

 

 

I think if you re read my post, I mention that alterations can be made to compensate for the speed/force differential.

 

Re force = mass x acceleration, you will find that's a linear equation which is used to highlight a principle. There are alot more variables than simply adding mass, especially when angular and rotational forces are at play.

 

I personally worked with Mike Schy in Fresno to a conclusion that there are both benefits and compensations that need to be made. Watched him fit tour pros to beginners, but never once saw towering 3 irons.

 

And I never saw a set of steel shafts in the market that did the job adequately. But I was looking for my boys, one who now plays in D1 and the other who plays off+5 and is headed in the same direction.

 

If one is a social golfer and would be stoked to shoot anywhere near par, one lengths are as capable as traditional lengthed clubs.

Edited by Tugu
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17 minutes ago, tippethor said:

I have a question, if all clubs are same length, then why isnt the clubspeed also the same? 


i saw a video of bryson where hes clubspeed was 15-20 mph higher with 5 iron than pw and that i just cant understand.

Because intent is different. That’s the real reason cobra has changes to their lie angle. In my testing, I go through and record data for 1/2, 3/4, full swings. Club speed will be pretty much the same across those tests. However, when playing, I rarely swing wedges fore than 3/4. Those shots are for controlling spin and precise distance. 4i has a different intensity.

 

It really comes down to you need to hit it further, you swing faster. It’s not something you think about. Every range session I see the same thing. That’s why for my club adjustments it takes time because if I am swinging full, speed is all same…as is 3/4, and 1/2.

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2 hours ago, Tugu said:

I think if you re read my post, I mention that alterations can be made to compensate for the speed/force differential.

 

Re force = mass x acceleration, you will find that's a linear equation which is used to highlight a principle. There are alot more variables than simply adding mass, especially when angular and rotational forces are at play.

 

I personally worked with Mike Schy in Fresno to a conclusion that there are both benefits and compensations that need to be made. Watched him fit tour pros to beginners, but never once saw towering 3 irons.

 

And I never saw a set of steel shafts in the market that did the job adequately. But I was looking for my boys, one who now plays in D1 and the other who plays off+5 and is headed in the same direction.

 

If one is a social golfer and would be stoked to shoot anywhere near par, one lengths are as capable as traditional lengthed clubs.

For sure I probably worded poorly. Was agreeing with you and expanding for others. I spoke with Mike several times when I switched my kids to single length. They both played hs golf, but have both turned focus to other sports this year…made me sad.

 

as for steel shafts, I gamed KBs 130xs. They were great. I also gamed modus 120xs. Liked them more. Over the last couple years age has started to catch up and made switch to paderson graphite stiff. I can’t say if graphite works better or worse because I didn’t test together.

 

That being said, I coached a kid, like your son, he played d1. I never tried to make him switch to single length. His father on the other hand, I switched him and he went from a 12 to a 4. So I think you are spot on for regular golfers…not sure I have ever seen a 10 or higher handicap who wouldn’t benefit from single length clubs, with right guidance to get through the transition.

 

As for 3i, to make that flight match up, I had a softer shaft in my 3 to provide the extra speed. The ball doesn’t know how long the shaft is…but got to get enough speed, combined with more mass to get right height. As part of the testing we are about to do on launch monitors, I am going to be fitting a former d1 golfer (plays off a +3/4 now) with single length. We will test the apex with his regular clubs and with single length…will be interesting. He will be testing with Cobra Forged Tec and SLS01’s. I don’t really use apex in my testing because I look at, launch and spin and descent…if those variables are right, apex will only change based on non club factors…namely ball ballistics, etc.

Edited by Drrussell
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3 hours ago, Drrussell said:

For sure I probably worded poorly. Was agreeing with you and expanding for others. I spoke with Mike several times when I switched my kids to single length. They both played hs golf, but have both turned focus to other sports this year…made me sad.

 

as for steel shafts, I gamed KBs 130xs. They were great. I also gamed modus 120xs. Liked them more. Over the last couple years age has started to catch up and made switch to paderson graphite stiff. I can’t say if graphite works better or worse because I didn’t test together.

 

That being said, I coached a kid, like your son, he played d1. I never tried to make him switch to single length. His father on the other hand, I switched him and he went from a 12 to a 4. So I think you are spot on for regular golfers…not sure I have ever seen a 10 or higher handicap who wouldn’t benefit from single length clubs, with right guidance to get through the transition.

 

As for 3i, to make that flight match up, I had a softer shaft in my 3 to provide the extra speed. The ball doesn’t know how long the shaft is…but got to get enough speed, combined with more mass to get right height. As part of the testing we are about to do on launch monitors, I am going to be fitting a former d1 golfer (plays off a +3/4 now) with single length. We will test the apex with his regular clubs and with single length…will be interesting. He will be testing with Cobra Forged Tec and SLS01’s. I don’t really use apex in my testing because I look at, launch and spin and descent…if those variables are right, apex will only change based on non club factors…namely ball ballistics, etc.

 

Bummer re the kids moving on from golf. But as a father of 2 golfers, i will be glad when the driving to tournaments, dealing with recruiting and the ups and downs of watching them compete is over.

 

Re one lengths, I went as far as to contact a guy I know in China who's company does contracted work for the OEMs to enquire about an extreme flighted set of steel shafts. The costs to tool up such a set turned at to be many multiples of graphite, where its a simple enough process to adjust stiffness, kick point and tip flex.

 

I also tried a bunch of different heads in the long irons (including Edel). Problem was the driving style irons with low CG and necessary mass simply did not spin enough. 

 

With the short irons it's a constant need to grip down. To the point it didn't make sense to play one lengths anymore. We all know it's a different game if one only ever hit full yardages. Pros would shoot 59 on a more regular basis.

 

In the end, I am 100% certain that it's an easier way to shoot a decent score in social golf. Like you, I've seen people convert and do it. 

 

On a last note, in regularly watching Bryson up close, I often wondered if its the one lengths or simply his belief in them? He is THAT straight. Only chink in the armor seems to be the inability of manufacture short iron shots like Speith. But then grips like rolling pins could have something to do with that. I literally couldn't do a thing with his clubs but hit full shots.

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On 12/9/2023 at 10:12 AM, Ed-flip said:

I feel I'd do a hybrid setup 4-8 iron as one length.  But use standard 9 and wedges.  I'm most consistent with the 8,9,wedges so my thought is to get more consistency with the longer irons.   

I have also seen Bryson in person many times. His short game is awesome when he’s on. His shots gained stats toward the end of year were sick. Also, I think it was Rory or Sergio that specifically talked about the advantages of the single length short irons when they play thick rough like the US open. More speed with less effort to get through thick rough. 

 

Personally, I am pretty close to scratch. I usually hover around a 2-3…but my short game is my strength 100%. My driver on the other hand…that is my weakness by a mile. 

 

One of the guys I play with a lot is a +3 and he has gone back and forth between playing single length and regular clubs. In fact, his first set of single lengths he had to buy because of a bet he and I made (if I beat him straight up in that round). He loves the idea of single length and simplifying all variables; however, he did not want to change his wedges either. He had 4-PW single length and then G, S, LW were all standard. 

 

When I first switched to single length I also used to grip down and change etc. However, after I got more used to it, I would only grip down on specialty shots (ball way above my feet). Otherwise, I find that having the consistent setup allows me to control low point so much better so there’s no reason to change grip. I could certainly see that someone who has been playing for a long time with a great short game wouldn’t necessarily want to make that change. 

 

In fact my buddy told me he wants to buy one of the Cobra Forged Tec sets from me. We are going to go through and fit him and make all the adjustments for his swing. That should be a good test because he’s like a robot hitting the ball. 

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5 hours ago, Drrussell said:

I have also seen Bryson in person many times. His short game is awesome when he’s on. His shots gained stats toward the end of year were sick. Also, I think it was Rory or Sergio that specifically talked about the advantages of the single length short irons when they play thick rough like the US open. More speed with less effort to get through thick rough. 

 

Personally, I am pretty close to scratch. I usually hover around a 2-3…but my short game is my strength 100%. My driver on the other hand…that is my weakness by a mile. 

 

One of the guys I play with a lot is a +3 and he has gone back and forth between playing single length and regular clubs. In fact, his first set of single lengths he had to buy because of a bet he and I made (if I beat him straight up in that round). He loves the idea of single length and simplifying all variables; however, he did not want to change his wedges either. He had 4-PW single length and then G, S, LW were all standard. 

 

When I first switched to single length I also used to grip down and change etc. However, after I got more used to it, I would only grip down on specialty shots (ball way above my feet). Otherwise, I find that having the consistent setup allows me to control low point so much better so there’s no reason to change grip. I could certainly see that someone who has been playing for a long time with a great short game wouldn’t necessarily want to make that change. 

 

In fact my buddy told me he wants to buy one of the Cobra Forged Tec sets from me. We are going to go through and fit him and make all the adjustments for his swing. That should be a good test because he’s like a robot hitting the ball. 

 

I might just have to send it on a set of the cobra's. I think they come up fairly regularly used. Might go that route.

 

 

 

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On 12/12/2023 at 6:11 PM, Ed-flip said:

 

I might just have to send it on a set of the cobra's. I think they come up fairly regularly used. Might go that route.

 

 

 

I just sold one set used. I have a second set too. I was planning to buff and polish and then sell. They are 1” extended and very close to the Dechambeau lofts. 

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On 12/15/2023 at 10:38 PM, Ed-flip said:

the older set or the new 2022 set?

I already got rid of the ‘22 set. I bought a set when they first came out. I liked the ‘20 version better…so I sold the 2022 version and bought another set of 2020’s. Those are the clubs I was gaming until about midway through this past summer. At that point, I started my Edel experiment with the SLS01’s (I bought 2 sets)…and then decided to do the custom set and build SL irons from the SMS Pro’s. 

 

Most likely, I will keep one set of the Edel irons as my backup set although I really don’t need a backup set any more. 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I play to a plus .6 single length. Its easily done. 

My son is 11 and working hard on his game, he switched to single length and immediately noticed an improvement just on ball position and consistency of swing alone. 

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WITB: 

Aerojet 10.5 Ventus 7S

Cobra Tec 17, 21, 24 hybrids

Cobra Forged One Length 2022 LA Golf Bryson Shafts

Cobra Forged One Length 54/60

 

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On 12/9/2023 at 5:24 AM, Tugu said:

 

Bummer re the kids moving on from golf. But as a father of 2 golfers, i will be glad when the driving to tournaments, dealing with recruiting and the ups and downs of watching them compete is over.

 

Re one lengths, I went as far as to contact a guy I know in China who's company does contracted work for the OEMs to enquire about an extreme flighted set of steel shafts. The costs to tool up such a set turned at to be many multiples of graphite, where its a simple enough process to adjust stiffness, kick point and tip flex.

 

I also tried a bunch of different heads in the long irons (including Edel). Problem was the driving style irons with low CG and necessary mass simply did not spin enough. 

 

With the short irons it's a constant need to grip down. To the point it didn't make sense to play one lengths anymore. We all know it's a different game if one only ever hit full yardages. Pros would shoot 59 on a more regular basis.

 

In the end, I am 100% certain that it's an easier way to shoot a decent score in social golf. Like you, I've seen people convert and do it. 

 

On a last note, in regularly watching Bryson up close, I often wondered if its the one lengths or simply his belief in them? He is THAT straight. Only chink in the armor seems to be the inability of manufacture short iron shots like Speith. But then grips like rolling pins could have something to do with that. I literally couldn't do a thing with his clubs but hit full shots.

I saw an interview with Mike Schy and he was talking about Bryson. He said in college, he had his distances, using a clock system down to 15 minute increments and he did that for every club in the bag. He thought that was something he hasn’t practiced enough as he’s been on the exploration of distance. 

 

Bryson is exceptionally good with the short game having to hit the really difficult shots. In fact, I think it was Rory who mentioned the longer short irons are an advantage for Bryson when they play courses with really thick rough. He has more effortless speed on those wedges to make getting through the rough easier. The bigger problem, which goes along with Schy’s assessment, he needs to practice more on the more routine shots and really get his distance control to be right. That being said, over the last 3-4 months of the season when he really started playing well, his short game was on point.

 

It’s also funny you mention how straight he hits it. He had a video recently where he talked about that. There was a point in his single plane journey where that was his goal. To be the straightest hitter on tour. He favored a fade. However, now, he has gone almost exclusively to a draw. This has led people to really misunderstanding his swing. In the past it was exactly on plane (think the Schy circle) for the entire swing. However, now, they think it’s different. Truth is, if you tilted the axis to the right and had that angle for his swing…it would still be exactly on plane. Think Schy circle not going straight down target line, but the entire circle with about a 5 degree tilt.  That is, fwiw, exactly how I practice. I have one of those devices and I always hit a draw. So I turn the circle facing right.

 

I suspect that more than anything, the comfort with wedges probably comes down to the individual. For me, based on shots gained data, I am a +2/+3 with short game. It has always been the strength of my game. At first, I did change my grip position based on the shot, but that quickly went away. Now, all shots are from same position unless it’s a specialty shot with the ball way above feet or something like that. I would guess those changes come down to the individual. 

 

As far as distances go, I think it’s interesting that you weren’t getting sufficient spin with long irons. I have always been the other way. I spin the ball too much. I end up adjusting lofts to make the spin rate where I want it. In fact in the set I am adjusting now, I will be adding loft to some clubs and taking loft down on others to make spin rates exactly what I want so gapping is perfect. It is true, in general, as I have re-worked my set, the 4i is purposefully built to be a low bullet. I switched from the 3iron and 4iron setup to a 4iron being the longest iron and then adding a single length hybrid for just that reason. The hybrid goes high and lands soft. The 4i is the bullet runner. All of my clubs to 5i however, will have exactly the type of flight you would expect to see. I used to have exactly the right trajectory with 4i too, but my adjustments were made because I wanted room for the hybrid when I am playing courses with thick rough. 

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Just to mirror what others have said, lots of science and design go into making them work, I'd just find an old Cobra version to try out honestly.  If you like it (which I tried it and HATED it) but don't want Cobra I think the only other option is Edel.

G430 LST 10.5* - G430 Max 15* - Cobra Baffler 17.5*- Sub 70 Pro 20* & 23* - i525 6-U - SM9 54* / 58*  - F22
 
 
 
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