Jump to content

Acceptable amount of deflection on a graphite shaft?


ironJosh

Recommended Posts

I recently received an Axiom long iron shaft, which has 3 different bends at various points up the shaft at 3mm each! I'm trying my hand at a little clubmaking, just for my own personal use, and just wanted to ask what the acceptable amount of deflection is? I expected it to be perfectly round.

 

I was going to put it into a 3 iron zx5 as an extension of my zx7 set. They are x7's but I was curious about Axiom as I love the velocore in my wood shafts. Thought I'd try it out but I'm very hesitent to use this shaft. I can't believe how bent it is.

 

Cheers

Josh

Aerojet LS 7.5* - Ventus Black 7TX

TSR3 12.75* - Ventus Black 8TX

UW 17*- Ventux Black 9TX

ZX5 mkII 3i - X7

ZX7 mkII 5-9i - X7

Vokey 46*F - X7

Vokey 50*F - X7

Vokey 54*D - X7

Glide Forged 62*T - S400

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, ironJosh said:

I recently received an Axiom long iron shaft, which has 3 different bends at various points up the shaft at 3mm each! I'm trying my hand at a little clubmaking, just for my own personal use, and just wanted to ask what the acceptable amount of deflection is? I expected it to be perfectly round.

 

I was going to put it into a 3 iron zx5 as an extension of my zx7 set. They are x7's but I was curious about Axiom as I love the velocore in my wood shafts. Thought I'd try it out but I'm very hesitent to use this shaft. I can't believe how bent it is.

 

Cheers

Josh

 

Are you talking about residual bend?  How much bend it has when no forces are applied?    (as opposed to some question about how it bends during the swing itself).

 

Residual bend, by itself, isn't really problematic, at least that's what some testing has lead us to believe.  I personally think that the more we look at things like this, the more we'll find that we're really swinging the club head c.g., not the shaft axis.

 

But if there is some problem with the manufacturing that resulted in residual bend, what else could have gone wrong?   So further testing (e.g. symmetry of the bending properties) would probably be wise.

 

 

from https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines4.php

 

Residual bend does not affect the golfer's shot nor feel.

Some years ago I got interested in this residual bend issue and ran a little experiment. I picked up 4 DG S300 steel shafts that all measured the same frequency with no significant differential frequency. They FLO'd everywhere. They all had significant residual bends however. I build four identical drivers with the bends in the four shafts pointed at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock. I had a number of low handicapers and a few pros hit them. Nobody could detect any difference bewteen the four clubs. I stopped worrying about type 1 shafts.

I ran a similar experiment with shafts that had an 8cpm differential variations. It was easy to tell the difference in the alignment. N1-N2 in the 9:00 3:00 plane worked the best for me.

I admit it was a pretty small test but the results seemed pretty significant to me.

Let me add that John has said elsewhere that the shafts used for the straightness test all had residual bends of 1/4", which is pretty hefty.

 


 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Stuart_G
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

How does it look like if you simply roll the shaft on a table?
I used that test to check if the tip was centered. If it wobbles, its crap 

Its all over the place like a mad womans breakfast.

 

This is the first test I did. I thought my table was crooked, then used a 1m long steel rule. Theres a bend 4" from the tip, one in the midsection and one 8" from the butt.

  • Like 1

Aerojet LS 7.5* - Ventus Black 7TX

TSR3 12.75* - Ventus Black 8TX

UW 17*- Ventux Black 9TX

ZX5 mkII 3i - X7

ZX7 mkII 5-9i - X7

Vokey 46*F - X7

Vokey 50*F - X7

Vokey 54*D - X7

Glide Forged 62*T - S400

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Are you talking about residual bend?  How much bend it has when no forces are applied?    (as opposed to some question about how it bends during the swing itself).

 

Residual bend, by itself, isn't really problematic, at least that's what some testing has lead us to believe.  I personally think that the more we look at things like this, the more we'll find that we're really swinging the club head c.g., not the shaft axis.

 

But if there is some problem with the manufacturing that resulted in residual bend, what else could have gone wrong?   So further testing (e.g. symmetry of the bending properties) would probably be wise.

 

 

from https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines4.php

 

Residual bend does not affect the golfer's shot nor feel.

Some years ago I got interested in this residual bend issue and ran a little experiment. I picked up 4 DG S300 steel shafts that all measured the same frequency with no significant differential frequency. They FLO'd everywhere. They all had significant residual bends however. I build four identical drivers with the bends in the four shafts pointed at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock. I had a number of low handicapers and a few pros hit them. Nobody could detect any difference bewteen the four clubs. I stopped worrying about type 1 shafts.

I ran a similar experiment with shafts that had an 8cpm differential variations. It was easy to tell the difference in the alignment. N1-N2 in the 9:00 3:00 plane worked the best for me.

I admit it was a pretty small test but the results seemed pretty significant to me.

Let me add that John has said elsewhere that the shafts used for the straightness test all had residual bends of 1/4", which is pretty hefty.

 


 

 

 

 

 

Hmm  In my head a shaft tip that has a bend in it 4" from the end simply can't be good. I'm talking a couple of degees at least.

Aerojet LS 7.5* - Ventus Black 7TX

TSR3 12.75* - Ventus Black 8TX

UW 17*- Ventux Black 9TX

ZX5 mkII 3i - X7

ZX7 mkII 5-9i - X7

Vokey 46*F - X7

Vokey 50*F - X7

Vokey 54*D - X7

Glide Forged 62*T - S400

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ironJosh said:

Hmm  In my head a shaft tip that has a bend in it 4" from the end simply can't be good. I'm talking a couple of degees at least.

 

A bent or damaged tip 4" from the end isn't the same as residual bend.  Residual bend is the result of the manufacturing process which generates a gradual curve in the shaft over a long(ish) portion of the shaft length.   Not a sharp bend at one specific point in the shaft.

 

Any sharp bend like that at any one  particular point in a graphite shaft is usually the result of some damage and an indication that the shaft is now unreliable in terms of it's strength - unlike steel which potentially could be still playable with such bend.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ironJosh said:

Hmm  In my head a shaft tip that has a bend in it 4" from the end simply can't be good. I'm talking a couple of degees at least.

So you roll that shaft along a straight edge ruler and it touches at the tip with a gap going up the the shaft? If you rotate it 180* does the tip go away from the ruler and the rest of the shaft get closer to the ruler? That sounds like a garbage shaft. Where did it come from? Possibly a fake?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does it wobble if you roll it? I've been building clubs for 35 years, and have never seen a shaft like you are describing.

  • Like 3

Srixon Z545 8.5° - Attas 11 7S
Honma TW747 3HL (16.5°) - Tour AD-IZ 7S

Honma TW747 7 wood - Attas 5 GoGo 7S

Honma TW-X 3 iron - Vizzard 85S (alternates with LW)

4-PW 2015 OnOff Forged Kuro - AMT Tour White X100 SSx2

50°-08 - Fourteen RM-4 - AMT X100
56°-10 - Fourteen RM-4 H grind - AMT X100
64°-10 - Callaway Jaws Full Toe Black - Dynamic Gold Spinner (alternates with 3 iron)

Scotty Cameron Oil Can Newport (1998) - KBS GPS, P2 Aware Tour

Grips - Star Sidewinder 360

Maxfli Tour Yellow

Vessel Player III - Iridium

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

A bent or damaged tip 4" from the end isn't the same as residual bend.  Residual bend is the result of the manufacturing process which generates a gradual curve in the shaft over a long(ish) portion of the shaft length.   Not a sharp bend at one specific point in the shaft.

 

Any sharp bend like that at any one  particular point in a graphite shaft is usually the result of some damage and an indication that the shaft is now unreliable in terms of it's strength - unlike steel which potentially could be still playable with such bend.

 

Oh ok mate thanks for clearing that up, I'm still learning.

 

I was under the impression that when graphite is formed, it can't bent after that, only break?

 

Are you saying the bend in the shaft can be from damage after the manufacturing process?

 

  • Like 1

Aerojet LS 7.5* - Ventus Black 7TX

TSR3 12.75* - Ventus Black 8TX

UW 17*- Ventux Black 9TX

ZX5 mkII 3i - X7

ZX7 mkII 5-9i - X7

Vokey 46*F - X7

Vokey 50*F - X7

Vokey 54*D - X7

Glide Forged 62*T - S400

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Ger21 said:

Does it wobble if you roll it? I've been building clubs for 35 years, and have never seen a shaft like you are describing.

Yes, it wobbles quite a lot.

Aerojet LS 7.5* - Ventus Black 7TX

TSR3 12.75* - Ventus Black 8TX

UW 17*- Ventux Black 9TX

ZX5 mkII 3i - X7

ZX7 mkII 5-9i - X7

Vokey 46*F - X7

Vokey 50*F - X7

Vokey 54*D - X7

Glide Forged 62*T - S400

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ironJosh said:

I was under the impression that when graphite is formed, it can't bent after that, only break?

 

That's true - it can't really undergo pure elastic deformation like steel can - at least not at normal temperatures.  But you can get what you might call partial fractures - usually delamination of the graphite pre-preg layers that could result in deformation without being able to actually see the fractures externally.    But something like that usually only occurs as a result of overheating when pulling.  Never seen it on new shafts coming out of the factory.    

 

Usually residual bend comes from removing the shaft from the mandrel after the resin cures but the internal structures contain some residual stress.  That's why it's usually a very gradual curvature and not any kind of a severe bend.

 

Never seen it happen but in theory It might be possible for more sever deformation to occur in the factory if it's removed from the mandrel before the resin's completely hardened.  Or if a damaged mandrel was used.   That's the only exception I can think of that would result in that type of severe bend w/o at least some internal structural damage.   But it would take a lot of things to go wrong for that to both happen and make it through the normal QA processes and out to a customer.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man!!!! You have to let us know where this thing came from?!?! Holy Cheese!

 

BT

 

Dr#1 Cobra Speedzone 10.5 – HZRDUS Yellow HC 65 TX @ 46”
Dr#2 Mizuno STZ 220 9.5 (10.5) - HZRDUS Smoke IM10 65 Low TX @ 46"

Mizuno ST190 15 - HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 43"
Mizuno STZ 220 18- HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 42"
Mizuno MP15 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Cobra MIM Wedges 52, 56 & 60 – stock KBS Hi-Rev @ 35.5”

Odyssey V-Line Stroke Lab 33.5"
Grips - Grip Master Classic Wrap Midsize

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies
    • 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Tuesday #1
       
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nick Hardy - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Seamus Power - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Hadwin - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Kurt Kitayama - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Byeong Hun An - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nicolai Hojgaard - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Sam Burns - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Brandon Wu - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      JT Poston - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Nick Dunlap - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Alex Smalley - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Pau Gasol WITB (2x NBA Champion, 6x All-Star) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Josh Allen WITB (NFL Quarterback, Buffalo Bills) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Matt Kuchar - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      JJ Spaun - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Jordan Spieth - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Svensson - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Adam Scott (mini) - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Taylor Moore - WITB - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ping putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      TaylorMade putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Pebble Beach Golf Links (holes 7 & 8) – 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Odyssey putters - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Lucas Glover going to test black Srixon ZX5 & ZX7 irons - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Justin Thomas wrist training aid - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Stephen Sweeney's Putting Ballistic putting training aid - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
      Chris Kirk club changes - 2024 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am
       
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
      The course was closed all day today (Monday) because of rain so no WITBs today
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Tuesday #1
      2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Tuesday #2
      2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Tuesday #3
      2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Tuesday #4
      2024 Farmers Insurance Open - Tuesday #5
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Gary Woodland - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Chris Gotterup - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ludvig Aberg - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Max Homa - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Chan Kim - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Michael Block - SoCal PGA Section champ - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Hideki Matsuyama - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Collin Morikawa - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ryan Fox - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Robert MacIntyre - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ben Griffin - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Matthieu Pavon - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Alejandro Tosti - WITB - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Jason Day WITB – 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Daniel Berger WITB – 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New 2Thumb grip - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Chesson Hadley's new Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ben Kohles' new Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Vincent Whaley's new Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ryo Hisatsune's new Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Charley Hoffman - custom Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      TaylorMade Tour X - X3 putter with milled metal insert - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Maverick McNealy's custom Odyssey staff bag - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Ben Baller's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      New LA Golf single bend graphite putter shaft - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      Swag Golf's - Channel 4 Headcovers - 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      L.A. Golf 120-gram prototype putter shaft – 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      L.A. Golf "gold edition" driver shaft – 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
      L.A. Golf prototype putters with new "exotic metal" face insert – 2024 Farmers Insurance Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 11 replies

×
×
  • Create New...