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Can someone help explain iron head weight to me?


JLP_GOLF

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Recently purchased a set of zx7 heads to pair with my axiom 125’s.  My fitter just called and said the heads are super light and likely Srixon used tip weighting to make them playable.  He said without tip weights, the heaviest he could get them was c5 and recommended I pass on these. 
 

He didn’t explain why, but did say he couldn’t tip weight a graphite shaft.  Is that possible?  What are the implications of doing that. 
 

he said srixon is known for tip weighting and unless I know the specific weight of the heads I purchase, there’s a chance this will happen again.  He advised looking for pulled heads that were made for shorter length irons, thus heavier.  Thanks in advance 

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Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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@J13 tagging you because I’m convinced you’re an expert on all things graphite shafts lol 

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TM Stealth 9 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Stealth plus 3 wood 15 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Sim2 TI 5 wood, 18 degrees 

Callaway UW '21, 21 degrees

TM P7MC 2023, 4-pw, fujikura axiom 125x

Srixon RTX 6 - 52,56,60 

Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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Well, first off, it's completely possible to tip weight a graphite shaft. They make specific weights for that purpose.

 

It's possible you got a set what is referred to as "B-weight" heads which are lighter.

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Ok so if I did get a B set, I could still tip weight right?  Where would I purchase these? 
 

wonder why my fitter, who used to fit on tour, is unwilling to try this and thinks it will put the shaft at risk @jvincent.  He’s older and doesn’t really explain things too well even after probing. 
 

given I play midsize grips, he said the heads are about 10grams light of where they would need to be to get them anywhere close to D3

Edited by JLP_GOLF

TM Stealth 9 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Stealth plus 3 wood 15 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Sim2 TI 5 wood, 18 degrees 

Callaway UW '21, 21 degrees

TM P7MC 2023, 4-pw, fujikura axiom 125x

Srixon RTX 6 - 52,56,60 

Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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"B" weight heads -- common with overlength builds (particularly Mizuno) allow for a reasonable swing-weight even at longer lengths. "Standard" weight heads, where the 5-iron is in the 253-258 gram weight range, with result in a very high swing-weight with longer finished lengths. As stated, you can tip-weight these, but I suspect that you won't ultimately be happy with the result. 

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16 minutes ago, bulldoggg said:

"B" weight heads -- common with overlength builds (particularly Mizuno) allow for a reasonable swing-weight even at longer lengths. "Standard" weight heads, where the 5-iron is in the 253-258 gram weight range, with result in a very high swing-weight with longer finished lengths. As stated, you can tip-weight these, but I suspect that you won't ultimately be happy with the result. 

Why would I be unhappy with the results?  Assume I know nothing, because I do!

TM Stealth 9 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Stealth plus 3 wood 15 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Sim2 TI 5 wood, 18 degrees 

Callaway UW '21, 21 degrees

TM P7MC 2023, 4-pw, fujikura axiom 125x

Srixon RTX 6 - 52,56,60 

Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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21 minutes ago, JLP_GOLF said:

Why would I be unhappy with the results?  Assume I know nothing, because I do!

Because it can certainly affect strike pattern and feel (it does for me). I had this with a set of X Forged irons years back, Callaway used a heavy tip weight in the 5 and 6 iron. I noticed a different feel and inconsistency in strike and resulting ball flight. I hit the 4 iron in that set better than the 6 iron. Had them checked out and heavy tip weights ended up being the cause, replaced those two irons and immediately felt like the rest of the iron set.

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1 minute ago, KevCannon said:

Because it can certainly affect strike pattern and feel (it does for me). I had this with a set of X Forged irons years back, Callaway used a heavy tip weight in the 5 and 6 iron. I noticed a different feel and inconsistency in strike and resulting ball flight. I hit the 4 iron in that set better than the 6 iron. Had them checked out and heavy tip weights ended up being the cause, replaced those two irons and immediately felt like the rest of the iron set.

Appreciate this.  So what do you suggest I do here?  I really like the zx7 and feel I’ll pick up a lot of value over my P7mc. 
 

I guess I need to search for heads that were pulled from a shorter set, right?

TM Stealth 9 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Stealth plus 3 wood 15 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Sim2 TI 5 wood, 18 degrees 

Callaway UW '21, 21 degrees

TM P7MC 2023, 4-pw, fujikura axiom 125x

Srixon RTX 6 - 52,56,60 

Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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Have u tried talking to Srixon about it? Callaway helped me out back then. The other issue is the midsize grips, which will cause the club to swingweight lighter to begin with. So if the iron head weight is lighter than it should be, you won’t be able to feel the club head.

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Callaway Epic Flash sz 15* /Fujikura Ventus TR Blue 7s

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Titleist T-100s 4-GW /PX Lz 6.0

Titleist SM9 54-12d, 60-10s /PX Lz 6.0

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You'd have to probe srixon to even know if they make two versions of their heads.  Some do, some don't.  This is one of the sometimes painful issues of dealing with graphite, specially when they are any type of counterbalanced.  As above, you can certainly add tip weighting to graphite, the tungsten ones can get you up 12 grams or so IIRC.  Whether that is still able to get you to where you need to be is another story.  There's then the open to combo that with lead tape, etc to make up some of the difference if necessary.  It all depends on what you are willing to see aesthetically.  If you club builder has no idea about how to tip weight graphite, well then, that presents it's own set of problems.

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11 minutes ago, KevCannon said:

Have u tried talking to Srixon about it? Callaway helped me out back then. The other issue is the midsize grips, which will cause the club to swingweight lighter to begin with. So if the iron head weight is lighter than it should be, you won’t be able to feel the club head.

I have not.  I bought second hand to keep costs down.  I’ve done this with every iron set I’ve owned in the past 5 years and my fitters never had a problem getting to D3.  Occasionally we used a little tape but nothing drastic 

TM Stealth 9 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Stealth plus 3 wood 15 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Sim2 TI 5 wood, 18 degrees 

Callaway UW '21, 21 degrees

TM P7MC 2023, 4-pw, fujikura axiom 125x

Srixon RTX 6 - 52,56,60 

Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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I'm not a fan of tip weights in graphite shafts.  Some tip weights have a knob on the end, which cut into insertion depth of the shaft.  Others, have a long section that goes up the shaft, often times above insertion depth.  Those would be no fun trying to extract if for some reason you reshaft again.  On some Ping's I just reshafted with graphite, I spent the $ on heavy toe weight screws to help with swingweight.  And I only had to move the number a few points.  In my opinion, small tip weights, 5 grams or less, are okay with graphite.  But not heavier.

 

I agree with the builder: get new heads.

Edited by Nessism
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6 minutes ago, Nessism said:

I'm not a fan of tip weights in graphite shafts.  Some tip weights have a knob on the end, which cut into insertion depth of the shaft.  Others, have a long section that goes up the shaft, often times above insertion depth.  Those would be no fun trying to extract if for some reason you reshaft again.  On some Ping's I just reshafted with graphite, I spent the $ on heavy toe weight screws to help with swingweight.  And I only had to move the number a few points.  In my opinion, small tip weights, 5 grams or less, are okay with graphite.  But not heavier.

 

I agree with the builder: get new heads.

Appreciate this opinion and explanation.  Fitter seemed very convinced in his reco but didn’t elaborate as much as you did.  Thanks

TM Stealth 9 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Stealth plus 3 wood 15 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Sim2 TI 5 wood, 18 degrees 

Callaway UW '21, 21 degrees

TM P7MC 2023, 4-pw, fujikura axiom 125x

Srixon RTX 6 - 52,56,60 

Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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1 hour ago, JLP_GOLF said:

Ok so if I did get a B set, I could still tip weight right?  Where would I purchase these? 
 

wonder why my fitter, who used to fit on tour, is unwilling to try this and thinks it will put the shaft at risk @jvincent.  He’s older and doesn’t really explain things too well even after probing. 
 

given I play midsize grips, he said the heads are about 10grams light of where they would need to be to get them anywhere close to D3

 

The  weights with the long skinny ends are designed for graphite shafts.

 

https://www.golfworks.com/lead-shaft-tip-weights/p/gw0105/

 

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Srixon ZX Utility #4: Nippon Modus3 125-S

Wilson Staff CB 5-PW : Nippon Modus3 125-S

Cleveland Zipcore 50, 54, 58: Nippon Modus3 125-S 

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8 minutes ago, jvincent said:

 

The  weights with the long skinny ends are designed for graphite shafts.

 

https://www.golfworks.com/lead-shaft-tip-weights/p/gw0105/

 

 

With the heaviest graphite tip weights, the 6 gram jobbies, that gets the OP to C8.  

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Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95

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Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110
Ping Redwood Anser - the "real deal!"

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1 hour ago, tdeutmeyer said:

Is the hosel bore depth a lot deeper than 1"?  I do not know what the std depth is on the ZX7.  Maybe someone drilled them deeper to reduce the head weight?  If so, you could use a flat weight first to replace the drilled out material and then tip weights if needed.

 

You bring up an excellent point.  I have a set of OG heads I just did a few weeks ago.  The bore depths were indeed shallow, only 1 1/8" or so.  This might be why the builder doesn't want to add tip weights as the shaft area would be less than an inch at that point.  

 

One could extend the depth and gain additional weight using tungsten plugs, but one has to consider the effort vs end result.  If I really wanted to do it for myself I probably would.  For a builder to do it for someone else might be a stretch.  Descent bit more labor involved. 

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Qi10 Tour 3W with shaft TBD
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Sounds like I’m sh*t outta luck if I try to procure used heads.  Unless I somehow found heads that were built for shorter heads and could confirm weight. 
 

Or go direct to srixon and explain my dilemma 

TM Stealth 9 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Stealth plus 3 wood 15 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Sim2 TI 5 wood, 18 degrees 

Callaway UW '21, 21 degrees

TM P7MC 2023, 4-pw, fujikura axiom 125x

Srixon RTX 6 - 52,56,60 

Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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18 minutes ago, JLP_GOLF said:

Sounds like I’m sh*t outta luck if I try to procure used heads.  Unless I somehow found heads that were built for shorter heads and could confirm weight. 
 

Or go direct to srixon and explain my dilemma 

 

Have you thought about going with a longer shaft length?  Or, a longer shaft and adjust the loft?

 

 

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Cleveland:  Wedges

Odyssey:  Putter

 

 

 

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Have you weighed the heads? The 6 iron should be about 258g if it’s a standard head. I could easily be wrong but I don’t think Srixon does B heads. They don’t accept swing weight requests on builds. Mizuno is known to do this though. 
 

Was the C5 swing weight taken with the midsize grip on or with standard grip? A standard grip will give you a more standard read on swing weight. 
 

Srixon also measures length almost a quarter inch longer than other manufacturers. If your builder is measuring on a different standard, say similar to Titleist, then it will also swing weight a touch lighter. 

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You could always add lead tape to the head to get swing weight up. That avoids the problem of excessive tip-weighting in the graphite shafts. But to get from C5 to D3 is going to require a pretty decent chunk of lead (about 16g, give or take).

 

Bonus is that loads of lead tape on your irons makes you look like a Player😆

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6 hours ago, JLP_GOLF said:

Ok so if I did get a B set, I could still tip weight right?  Where would I purchase these? 
 

wonder why my fitter, who used to fit on tour, is unwilling to try this and thinks it will put the shaft at risk @jvincent.  He’s older and doesn’t really explain things too well even after probing. 
 

given I play midsize grips, he said the heads are about 10grams light of where they would need to be to get them anywhere close to D3

 

The issue is that you guys are judging swing-weight using a midsize grip that is most likely heavier than "standard".  This will always give a false representation of a club swinging lighter.  It's just counter balancing the club....not making it actually swing lighter.

 

Best idea is to use a standard 50-52g split grip to use on the swing-weight scale.  Then install the heavier grip you want without any concern about it lowering the number.

 

What is the midsize grip you're using for this?

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Just pass on these heads and look for some that came from a standard length set instead of an over-length head.   The light weight might be one of the reasons they are such a good deal.

 

Even with the heavier grips - these are clearly B weight heads and based on what little data is provided, they are about ~10 gm light.  That's going to max out what's possible with tip weights and leave only lead tape as an option to adjust for manufacturing variations in the head weight.  

 

No going longer in length is not a good option.

 

I've turned B weight heads into standard length clubs - but that was with steel shafts and much more room for weight in the hosel.  And it was still a PITA.  I might be able to make it work with graphite but to be honest it's not a job I'd willing take on.

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7 hours ago, PNW said:

Have you weighed the heads? The 6 iron should be about 258g if it’s a standard head. I could easily be wrong but I don’t think Srixon does B heads. They don’t accept swing weight requests on builds. Mizuno is known to do this though. 
 

Was the C5 swing weight taken with the midsize grip on or with standard grip? A standard grip will give you a more standard read on swing weight. 
 

Srixon also measures length almost a quarter inch longer than other manufacturers. If your builder is measuring on a different standard, say similar to Titleist, then it will also swing weight a touch lighter. 

My axioms are already cut so no room there and yes I play midsize.  The 6 iron I recall him saying was 242 grams 

TM Stealth 9 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Stealth plus 3 wood 15 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Sim2 TI 5 wood, 18 degrees 

Callaway UW '21, 21 degrees

TM P7MC 2023, 4-pw, fujikura axiom 125x

Srixon RTX 6 - 52,56,60 

Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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5 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

The issue is that you guys are judging swing-weight using a midsize grip that is most likely heavier than "standard".  This will always give a false representation of a club swinging lighter.  It's just counter balancing the club....not making it actually swing lighter.

 

Best idea is to use a standard 50-52g split grip to use on the swing-weight scale.  Then install the heavier grip you want without any concern about it lowering the number.

 

What is the midsize grip you're using for this?

Mcc plus 4

TM Stealth 9 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Stealth plus 3 wood 15 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Sim2 TI 5 wood, 18 degrees 

Callaway UW '21, 21 degrees

TM P7MC 2023, 4-pw, fujikura axiom 125x

Srixon RTX 6 - 52,56,60 

Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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If you are interested in moving these heads, I'd be interested in checking them out. I play everything overlength and would love lighterweight heads.

Rotate the following:

Titliest TSR2 10* (@C1) Ventus TR Black 6X 

Titliest TSR2 16.5* (@A1) Fuji Speeder 8.3TS X

Titliest TSR2 21* (@A1) Fuji Atmos Blue 8X

Titliest 818H2 21* (@B3) Fuji Atmos Black 9X

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Mizzy MCraft VI 36.5" SS Pistol 1.0

Titliest PV1

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8 hours ago, JLP_GOLF said:

Sounds like I’m sh*t outta luck if I try to procure used heads.  Unless I somehow found heads that were built for shorter heads and could confirm weight. 
 

Or go direct to srixon and explain my dilemma 


 

How much shorter than standard are you having them built?

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I have reshaft a full set of Srixons ZX7 MK2 and they have had hosel weights inside the longer heads, short irons where spot on with the weight like it should be. The longer ones have been spot on with their hosel weights. It was a bit pain in the a** to remove the hosel weight. 

so in other words, Srixon for sure is having sets of heads that are lighter to fit over-length clubs. 

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I had this same issue with srixon zx7 mark 2 irons, super light heads. going from 120g shafts to 110g shafts swing weight was really messed up. I have a pound of lead tape to make them playable. I also didnt want to use real heavy tip weights.

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19 minutes ago, geauxWRX said:

I had this same issue with srixon zx7 mark 2 irons, super light heads. going from 120g shafts to 110g shafts swing weight was really messed up. I have a pound of lead tape to make them playable. I also didnt want to use real heavy tip weights.

It seems like Srixon tip weights more than most brands?  I’m reading a lot on other threads how standard length shafts still get tip weighted

TM Stealth 9 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Stealth plus 3 wood 15 degrees, Ventus Blue TR 6x

TM Sim2 TI 5 wood, 18 degrees 

Callaway UW '21, 21 degrees

TM P7MC 2023, 4-pw, fujikura axiom 125x

Srixon RTX 6 - 52,56,60 

Odyssey White Hot OG 1 Wide, KBS graphite putter shaft

 

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