Jump to content

Is my early extension caused by a head dip


Recommended Posts

Hi everyone

My head dips in my back swing and I'm early extending coming in to hit, I hate that I am on my toes at impact. I also have a tendency to swing fast too which usually throws me off balance but when I consciously 'slow down' I can't get any sort of decent strike.

 

I can sometimes get away with it but the issue seems to get worse the longer the club. 

 

My main bad shots are high right, low left and the odd fat or thin. I'm sorry I don't have a face on view, the camera failed and I didn't realise until I got home.

 

Any critique advice etc is most welcome

 

Thanks

Edited by pjm3586
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is definitely the foundation of a pretty good swing in here, you just need to adjust how you're using your lower half as that is the source of the issues:

pjmVPalmer.gif.9c72e1fe82395fefeedde4f426752ed0.gif

I chose Ryan Palmer here as a comparison because of the similarity in your backswing lengths/positions. I am roughly mapping right leg flex and right hip position here. I am tagging @Ethan DelGrosso here as well because the two of you get into extremely similar impact positions for this reason despite very different swings.

Generally speaking the problem is that you're attempting to actively use your right leg for vertical force in the downswing, likely something that a face on angle would reveal is being encouraged by improper lower body sequencing (loading into your back leg for too long and/or too late). In just about every pro golf swing, especially with irons, there is very little pressure and basically no intentional force being created with that back leg, you're already supposed to be off of it and creating the forces you intended to create (whatever mixture of vertical, torque, and horizontal) with your front leg. Doing this correctly results in what we see with Palmer here; the structure of the right leg doesn't change much, in fact for some it increases in flex like Palmer's does, and the absence of pressure on it (because that pressure as shifted to the front leg) allows it to passively be pulled down and through impact with the front hip being notably *higher* than the right. This is how things like side bend and low point can be naturally consistent. 

All sorts of ball flight and strike related troubles result from the compensations you need to employ to manage what keeping weight back to *jump* with the rear leg does to your swing, specifically low point control. You're trying really hard to hold side bend despite your right hip working up, but your head and shoulders still rise as a result of this which will create your fat/thin strike problems. The distribution of your pressure between left and right foot is an issue too, because the bottom of your swing arc will naturally want to go where your pressure goes. Hang back and your low point will be behind the ball, get forward and it will be in front of it, therefore secondary compensations are employed when your pressure conflicts with where you want said low point. In keeping the weight back that you need to jump with the right leg like this you guarantee that your low point will want to be further back than it should, so combine that with the rising of the head and shoulders and the ball basically becomes a moving target as far as your brain is concerned.

Regarding your head coming towards the ball in the backswing, IMO that is simply your body getting ready to do the moves you're doing currently, and it will take retraining the moves to ultimately get rid of that. The raising of your hips and jumping at impact is easier to do from your toes, and if that is the move currently ingrained in your head then attempting to reduce the amount you favor your toes will just make you worse at the thing you currently know how to do, the solution being instead to "learn a new thing" basically, which is what it will feel like.

For now there are two basic shorts introducing this concept on @MonteScheinblum's channel. Understanding this concept around pressure shifting allows you to create the correct hip action and tilt we see from Palmer above. We will need face on video to determine whether your problem is too much shifting right and not getting left early enough, or if you aren't getting right early enough going back killing your momentum to get left.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 10.5* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Qi10 15* Tensei AV White 85TX 1.0 // Taylormade Stealth+ 16* Ventus Black 8x
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 19* Nippon GOST Prototype Hybrid 10
Callaway X-Forged Single♦️  22* Nippon GOST Tour X  // Bridgestone J15 CB 4i Raw Nippon GOST Tour X
Bridgestone 
J15 CB 5i-7i 26*- 34* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 6.8-7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 38*- 46* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM9 50* Raw F-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot // Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posts a face on.  Incorrect rotation and shift in the backswing is the issue.  Need face in to see exactly why.

  • Like 1

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Posts a face on.  Incorrect rotation and shift in the backswing is the issue.  Need face in to see exactly why.


But what about my 650 words trying to say the same thing? 😂

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 10.5* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Qi10 15* Tensei AV White 85TX 1.0 // Taylormade Stealth+ 16* Ventus Black 8x
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 19* Nippon GOST Prototype Hybrid 10
Callaway X-Forged Single♦️  22* Nippon GOST Tour X  // Bridgestone J15 CB 4i Raw Nippon GOST Tour X
Bridgestone 
J15 CB 5i-7i 26*- 34* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 6.8-7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 38*- 46* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM9 50* Raw F-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot // Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Thanks @Valtiel Thanks @Valtiel for putting so much effort and information into your response, I find it very interesting and never would've thought of those potential things as being my issues. And thank you @MonteScheinblum for replying.

 

 

 

I have this video of me from face on but it is approximately 2 years old, I would say the issue is still there as it's likely as you mention it's ingrained.

 

 

 

Would I be shifting too much to my right too early? I watched the Monte video you attached, it makes a lot of sense to me, I always feel like I can't get on to my left side, like I can't plant my left heel.

 

 

 

Maybe I am way off 😂

 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Edited by pjm3586
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@MonteScheinblum thanks Monte. Wow. That is quite eye opening for me. Would a good feel for this be right hip back as soon as I take the club away, or right hip back as the club is approaching parallel on the way back? 

 

I have been practicing swinging this (no club) and finding it difficult to get into the position the LH photo shows. I have always had tight hips and hamstrings so something to work on try and loosen for sure. 

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've fought this same move for years due to a bad back.

  • Like 1

Ping G430 Max with Ping Distanza or MP5 Ladies flex or Grafalloy Pro Launch Blue 45 in Senior

Ping G430 Five Wood Ping Distanza

Ping G430 Seven Wood Ping Distanza

Ping G430 Nine Wood Ping Distanza

Ping i230 5-PW Red Dot + 1"  Recoil Dart 105

Ping i230 Utility Wedge +1" Recoil Dart 105

Ping Glide 4.0 56 Degree ES Red Dot ZZ 115

Scotty Cameron Squareback 2.5 341/2"

Scotty Cameron Phantom X 5.5 35"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

 

Not the best video as I slipped.... but another one I had a buddy record didn't actually record....

Anyway, I'm still dipping on the backswing, like crazy, I've tried to stay more centred (not getting over to my right side too much) and bring that right hip back more on the backswing. My move to start the down swing I think is firing that right hip and lifting my right heel, this is causing me all sorts of heartbreak, shanks, duffs you name it. 

 

Can anyone please tell me, is that dip caused by pitching too far forward on my toes during the backswing and then my right heel is coming up, forcing me to re-balance, early extending just to get any sort of strike on the ball? 

 

I have tried everything to stop that dip and load my right side properly but nothing seems to work. I've seen beginners hit better shots than I did today. The problem is exasperated the longer the club gets.

 

Thank you in advance. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Your original face on

IMG_7279.png.7bdac4c5ddb2f4526cc07ed78f467e55.png

 

 The ideal that Monte posted

IMG_7280.jpeg.ed01ff5861e1bfe50bd7902de1592b45.jpeg

 

 And where you are nowIMG_7278.png.72735d31d0f152436961f1d834fcc775.png

 

 What do you see? 

@TheDeanAbidesthe arms seem to be flatter, the hips have rotated a slight bit more but they're still out over the outside of my right foot, there seems to be a lot of weight there too.

 

Is this move causing the host of my strike issues and is it causing the noticeable dip in my BS? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take this with a grain of salt. 

 

Appears to me that your right hip does not get depth in the back swing.  Looks like most of your hip turn is turning your left hip toward the ball.  This crowds the area to the ball forcing you to ee at impact.  Look at the pro photo and see how far his right hip was moved away from the ball in the back swing. And it'll pretty much not move towards the ball on the down swing, as the left hip moves back and away from the ball to maintain the hip to ball distance so you won't ee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

😂 @TheDeanAbides thank you for the patronising and sarcastic response. Please show me where Monte told me this move was causing the head dip as you said? He's kindly went to the trouble to give me feedback and I am well aware of his reputation, thank you.

 

My specific question is does it cause my head to dip, or is this just a bad move I've gotten in to doing.

 

Feel free to give me your feedback on my swing @TheDeanAbides

 

Edited by pjm3586
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, pjm3586 said:

😂 @TheDeanAbides thank you for the patronising and sarcastic response. Please show me where Monte told me this move was causing the head dip as you said? He's kindly went to the trouble to give me feedback and I am well aware of his reputation, thank you.

 

My specific question is does it cause my head to dip, or is this just a bad move I've gotten in to doing.

 

Feel free to give me your feedback on my swing, I'm on the edge of my seat. 

 

I think you might be being a touch over sensitive here, fella. I’m being direct - not sarcastic.

 

Monte posted above with your primary issue, and nobody else here has his gravitas. You’re still doing the same thing - albeit to a slightly lesser extent - so keep working on that issue and then see what the results are. 
 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, 596 said:

Take this with a grain of salt. 

 

Appears to me that your right hip does not get depth in the back swing.  Looks like most of your hip turn is turning your left hip toward the ball.  This crowds the area to the ball forcing you to ee at impact.  Look at the pro photo and see how far his right hip was moved away from the ball in the back swing. And it'll pretty much not move towards the ball on the down swing, as the left hip moves back and away from the ball to maintain the hip to ball distance so you won't ee.

That makes a lot of sense, thank you.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your early extension is a result of your first move in your swing being to shift your weight onto your back leg. Well established in everyone's comments so far... what you keep asking is how to deal with this issue: 

 

image.png.d780c9022170c5e5523fc5935eff4e15.png

 

Look at all your weight coming into your trail side. From there, you do not have enough time to re-center your weight through the ball, towards the target, so instead, you jump into the swing and end up on your tip toes to avoid burying the club 6 inches behind the ball:

 

image.png.684164d9882371426d779e3558be67e6.png

 

 

Here's what I'd like to see you try on the range, the one foot drill:

 

image.png.07811aa1b2252dc8a0bac6526e45c501.png

 

That back heel should never touch the ground. Once you figure out your balance and strike, then you can start bringing it back to a normal looking stance.

  • Like 2

____________________________

Titleist TSR2 9* - Ventus TR Red 6X

Titleist TS3 4W 16.5* - T1100 Evenflow White 6.5

W/S UT 20* - HZRDUS Black RDX 6.0

Callaway Apex '19 4-PW - PX Rifle 6.0

Vokey SM9 49* - PX Rifle 6.0

Vokey SM8 54/58 - PX Rifle 6.0

SINK 1992 Custom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, pjm3586 said:

Definitely patronising there, fella. 

 

You're right, no one has his gravitas. I'd listen to everyone's comments, good or bad. I'd listen to the postman if he had an input, I'm just inviting anyone to give their opinion that's all. 

 

 

Not patronizing or sarcastic; in my opinion. 

 

I also don't see your head dipping as all that severe, or worthy of the same attention your EE warrants. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, pjm3586 said:

My specific question is does it cause my head to dip, or is this just a bad move I've gotten in to doing.

 

Improper pelvic rotation (too much left up forward, not enough right hip back) is what causes the head to dive forward, it's a symptom, not the thing you should necessarily be focusing on. 

Interestingly the previous video where you slipped actually *is* very useful because the slip is caused by you keeping weight too far back for too long and then attempting to push off your back leg to start the downswing:

FootSlide.gif.0e318e892a5aa51ca2a44b751e65f040.gif

That is your first move down which sees you pushing your right hip forward and adding pressure to your back foot which is the root of why you're getting stuck and having to jump/extend in the downswing. Everything discussed here is relevant to that issue and supports the what/why of Monte's previous advice. 
 

Edited by Valtiel
  • Like 4

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 10.5* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Qi10 15* Tensei AV White 85TX 1.0 // Taylormade Stealth+ 16* Ventus Black 8x
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 19* Nippon GOST Prototype Hybrid 10
Callaway X-Forged Single♦️  22* Nippon GOST Tour X  // Bridgestone J15 CB 4i Raw Nippon GOST Tour X
Bridgestone 
J15 CB 5i-7i 26*- 34* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 6.8-7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 38*- 46* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM9 50* Raw F-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot // Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Monday #1
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #1
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #2
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Keith Mitchell - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Rafa Campos - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      R Squared - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Martin Laird - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Paul Haley - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Tyler Duncan - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Min Woo Lee - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Austin Smotherman - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Lee Hodges - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Eric Cole's newest custom Cameron putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      New Super Stroke Marvel comic themed grips - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Ben Taylor's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Tyler Duncan's Axis 1 putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cameron putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Chris Kirk's new Callaway Opus wedges - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      ProTC irons - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Dragon Skin 360 grips - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cobra prototype putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      SeeMore putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 0 replies
    • 2024 PGA Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put  any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 PGA Championship - Monday #1
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Michael Block - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Patrick Reed - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cam Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Brooks Koepka - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Josh Speight - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Takumi Kanaya - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kyle Mendoza - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Adrian Meronk - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jordan Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jeremy Wells - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jared Jones - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      John Somers - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Larkin Gross - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Tracy Phillips - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jon Rahm - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Keita Nakajima - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kazuma Kobori - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      David Puig - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Ryan Van Velzen - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ping putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Bettinardi covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cameron putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Max Homa - Titleist 2 wood - 2024 PGA Championship
      Scotty Cameron experimental putter shaft by UST - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 13 replies
    • 2024 Wells Fargo Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Wells Fargo Championship - Monday #1
      2024 Wells Fargo Championship - Tuesday #1
      2024 Wells Fargo Championship - Tuesday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Akshay Bhatia - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Matthieu Pavon - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Keegan Bradley - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Webb Simpson - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Emiliano Grillo - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Taylor Pendrith - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Kevin Tway - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      New Cobra equipment truck - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Eric Cole's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Custom Cameron putter - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Matt Kuchar's custom Bettinardi - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Justin Thomas - driver change - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Rickie Fowler - putter change - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Rickie Fowler's new custom Odyssey Jailbird 380 putter – 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Tommy Fleetwood testing a TaylorMade Spider Tour X (with custom neck) – 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Cobra Darkspeed Volition driver – 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
       
       
       
       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Monday #1
      2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Monday #2
      2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Tuesday #1
      2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Tuesday #2
      2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Pierceson Coody - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Kris Kim - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      David Nyfjall - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Adrien Dumont de Chassart - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Jarred Jetter - North Texas PGA Section Champ - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Richy Werenski - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Wesley Bryan - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Parker Coody - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Peter Kuest - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Blaine Hale, Jr. - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Kelly Kraft - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Rico Hoey - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Adam Scott's 2 new custom L.A.B. Golf putters - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Haha
        • Like
      • 11 replies
    • 2024 Zurich Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Zurich Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Zurich Classic - Monday #2
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Alex Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Austin Cook - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Alejandro Tosti - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Davis Riley - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
      MJ Daffue - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Nate Lashley - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      MJ Daffue's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Cameron putters - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Swag covers ( a few custom for Nick Hardy) - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Custom Bettinardi covers for Matt and Alex Fitzpatrick - 2024 Zurich Classic
       
       
       
      • 1 reply

×
×
  • Create New...