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Old Drivers Preform Better?


bobby12

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I am looking to upgrade my driver. Using an ok Adam’s Speedline Fast 12 LS with the Fubuki Alpha 60. Driver is fine but feel it is time for an upgrade given it is 12 years old at this point. Driver swing speed is 105 ball speed is around 148( I know not very efficient) and carry on average is 250 and 260 on really good ones. 
 

While I use a Trackman inside without RCT those numbers seem on par (pun intended) with what makes sense. Since the driver is old and my research says drives over the last 5 years are similar that is what I am looking toward. I hit many at my local shop and while they use full swing not a single driver I tried was longer or faster than what I currently have. 
 

Is this a product of an unfair test between Trackman and Full Swing? I find it hard to believe that any driver with in the last 5 years is unable to beat one from 2012. The best drives of my test matches the numbers of my gamer albeit total is less but I’ll just say that is sim range firmness. 
 

Trackman Optimizer puts me at 270 carry which seems very attainable but nothing more current can achieve that? 
 

Anyone have any thoughts? 

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Probably time for a fitting or test golf clubs on the Trackman if you can. While it shouldn't be massively different, it seems that Full Swing is a $5k machine, while Trackman is $25k, so you'll definitely get differences in terms of accuracy.

 

Regardless, it's strange you can't get something to go further than your Adams driver. If you're mishitting it (looking at your inefficiency with the driver), the newer drivers should provide you more ballspeed/smash factor retention. If you're hitting it in the center and your old driver is inefficient because of a slower face, the new driver should still provide more distance. If you're able to provide launch/spin/delivery numbers, a lot of members will know how to best optimize distance. It may also be a swing issue if you generate too much spin for example and you need to be in a different style of head.

Edited by BlueDragonKorea

Driver: Sim 10.5 WB 73 TX
3w: Taylormade Stealth 2 Plus 15/BRNR Mini Diamana D+Plus 80TX

5w: Paradym AI Smoke 18 Tensei Pro White 1k 90 TX
4i: Srixon ZX Mk II AD IZ 95x

5i: Srixon U85 Oban CT 125x

6-PW: Miura TC-201 Oban CT 125x

50/54/59: Cleveland RTX Zipcore DG S400

Putter: Jailbird 380 WH
 

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Difference between what you have and newer drivers is forgiveness.  Drives hit on the sweet spot should be similar distance wise.  New heads retain higher ball speeds across the face whereas you could see a massive drop off in ball speed on mishits for the older heads.  Spin numbers tend to stay more consistent with the newer heads as well.  For example, the AI Smoke TD I have doesn't drop spin so much off the toe so that my drives stay in the air longer, don't curve hard left and are much more playable in general.    These factors are what make the newer heads more attractive compared to the older ones. 

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Callaway AI Smoke Paradym 💎💎💎9* - Tour AD VF-7TX

TM SIM ti 15* - Diamana GT 80TX

TM Tour Issue Rescue 11 TP Deep Face Proto 16* - Ventus Black HB 9TX

New Level NLU-01 21* - KBS Hybrid Proto 105X

New Level 623-M 5-PW - MMT 125TX

Miura Tour 54* HB - KBS 610 125 S+, New Level SPN forged M-grind 58* - KBS Tour 130X

Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2

 

 

 

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The current maximum COR value of 0.830 was proposed in 1998. Your driver and every current model share the same ability to produce ball speed *when they’re new*. As they are used, the face becomes more flexible, and their COR increases. At least in theory, your driver should produce more distance than any new model, not less.

 

@phizzy30 is of course correct. The only significant advantage newer models tend to have is speed and trajectory maintenance on non-optimal impacts.

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Driver - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 5S

FW - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 6S

Hybrid - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 7S

Irons - ZX5 / C-Taper Lite S

Wedges - SM9 50/08 56/10 60/04

Putter - Odyssey Ai-One Milled #7 T

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I had that same driver and made a post on here years ago that it was a decent driver and every now and then I'd hit what seemed like a routine drive and it'd go about 50 yards farther than expected.  Someone replied, that they've seen the same with that driver.  I found that driver to be unforgiving on off center hits.  Getting fit for a driver will maximize your carry, launch, and spin to achieve the best results.  As Phizzy says, it's all about forgiveness on the new heads.  

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3 hours ago, bobby12 said:

I am looking to upgrade my driver. Using an ok Adam’s Speedline Fast 12 LS with the Fubuki Alpha 60. Driver is fine but feel it is time for an upgrade given it is 12 years old at this point. Driver swing speed is 105 ball speed is around 148( I know not very efficient) and carry on average is 250 and 260 on really good ones. 
 

While I use a Trackman inside without RCT those numbers seem on par (pun intended) with what makes sense. Since the driver is old and my research says drives over the last 5 years are similar that is what I am looking toward. I hit many at my local shop and while they use full swing not a single driver I tried was longer or faster than what I currently have. 
 

Is this a product of an unfair test between Trackman and Full Swing? I find it hard to believe that any driver with in the last 5 years is unable to beat one from 2012. The best drives of my test matches the numbers of my gamer albeit total is less but I’ll just say that is sim range firmness. 
 

Trackman Optimizer puts me at 270 carry which seems very attainable but nothing more current can achieve that? 
 

Anyone have any thoughts? 

Same thing Phizzy said. The CT rule is still the same so shots hit on the cg will be very similar ballspeed wise between your driver and new drivers. However, the major improvement over the last 4 or 5 years has been to increase ball speed on mishits. So, no doubt a new driver will perform considerably better on mishits versus yours both in distance and dispersion. How much of an improvement is hard to say but a good fitting would answer that.

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Ping G425 3wd @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg 
Ping G425 7wd @ -1 Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 6 Reg
Ping G425 22 hybrid @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue HB 6 reg
PXG Gen 4 0311XP 6-GW Fujikura Axiom 75 R2 

Cleveland CBX Zipcore 50*, 56*, 60* DG Spinner Stiff stepped soft
Evnroll ER7  33” Rosemark grip

 

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I've used an Adams F11 since it came out ... Tried to replace it with everything. Latest was an Epic. I'm still using the Adams.

Driver #1: Adams Speedline F11, 9.5°

Driver #2: Adams InSight XTD, 10.5°

Fairway: Callaway Rogue ST Max LS, 18°

Utility Iron: Titleist 718 AP3, 19°

Irons: Titleist 718 AP1, 5-GW, 24°-48°
UW: Titleist Vokey SM8, 52°F

LW: Titleist Vokey SM8, 60°D
Putter: On a rotating basis
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B RX
Bag: Sun Mountain Metro Sunday Bag

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There’s no doubt about it. New drivers are night and day better at delivering impressive ball speeds on impacts around the face and also at mitigating side spin (should not be undervalued). And that speed zone on the face has been expanding little by little. Never mind best strikes — no one hits the middle all the time. These newer heads are amazing at making off-center hits perform like middle strikes. I have zero doubt this Qi10 I have would crush past drivers I’ve had. I can see it in where my misses end up on the course. Some are so much better than I expected, not only in distance but how it corrects left/right misses. A difference maker for sure. 

Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5 w/Diamana TB 60S

PXG GEN6 5 wood w/Diamana S-plus 70 stiff

Yamaha RMX VD 7 wood w/Diamana S-plus 70 stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro hybrid (22) w/Aldila Tour Blue 85 stiff hybrid

Wilson Staff Model CB 5-G w/DG s300 shafts

Edel T grind 54 w/Nippon 125 wedge shaft

Fourteen RM-12 58 w/Dynamic Golds400

Axis1 Rose putter, 34 inches

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Interesting points. I guess my knowledge was wrong! Been watching a lot of YouTube golf and old vs new comparison and while it seems the last handful of years are fairly consistent it does seem that even the best players who hit the middle 99% of the time are seeing gains in ball speed. Regardless below is an average of 5 shots sample of what I am working with via indoor track man no RCT. Also worth mentioning it is a 9.5 opened to 8.5 and plays 45” in stiff flex. 

 

Club Speed: 105

Ball Speed: 149

Smash: 1.42 (desperately need to get this up)

Carry: 250

Total: 270

Height 107ft

Spin: 2578

AoA: 4.7

Dynamic Loft: 16.5

Face Angle: -2.4

 

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1 hour ago, bobby12 said:

Interesting points. I guess my knowledge was wrong! Been watching a lot of YouTube golf and old vs new comparison and while it seems the last handful of years are fairly consistent it does seem that even the best players who hit the middle 99% of the time are seeing gains in ball speed. Regardless below is an average of 5 shots sample of what I am working with via indoor track man no RCT. Also worth mentioning it is a 9.5 opened to 8.5 and plays 45” in stiff flex. 

 

Club Speed: 105

Ball Speed: 149

Smash: 1.42 (desperately need to get this up)

Carry: 250

Total: 270

Height 107ft

Spin: 2578

AoA: 4.7

Dynamic Loft: 16.5

Face Angle: -2.4

 

1.42 smash is just about the only number that looks inefficient, the rest of it seems pretty decent. (Maybe dynamic loft is a little high?)

 

Are you catching it low on the face or on the heel by chance? With newer drivers, getting smash worse than 1.45 normally means a swing/impact location issue, so you should have seen a slight ball speed increase with newer models.

Driver: Sim 10.5 WB 73 TX
3w: Taylormade Stealth 2 Plus 15/BRNR Mini Diamana D+Plus 80TX

5w: Paradym AI Smoke 18 Tensei Pro White 1k 90 TX
4i: Srixon ZX Mk II AD IZ 95x

5i: Srixon U85 Oban CT 125x

6-PW: Miura TC-201 Oban CT 125x

50/54/59: Cleveland RTX Zipcore DG S400

Putter: Jailbird 380 WH
 

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6 hours ago, bobby12 said:

Interesting points. I guess my knowledge was wrong! Been watching a lot of YouTube golf and old vs new comparison and while it seems the last handful of years are fairly consistent it does seem that even the best players who hit the middle 99% of the time are seeing gains in ball speed. Regardless below is an average of 5 shots sample of what I am working with via indoor track man no RCT. Also worth mentioning it is a 9.5 opened to 8.5 and plays 45” in stiff flex. 

 

Club Speed: 105

Ball Speed: 149

Smash: 1.42 (desperately need to get this up)

Carry: 250

Total: 270

Height 107ft

Spin: 2578

AoA: 4.7

Dynamic Loft: 16.5

Face Angle: -2.4

 


Everything seems "ok", except for your smashfactor (ball-speed), thats where you loose distance, so you might be better off with a re-fitting of that club, and you can do it yourself, just follow this guide, and you will make it.
Its NO need for any special tools at all, or any former knowledge about fitting or club tech.  When you are able to judge a Trackman report like you are, you are "over qualified" for whats needed to improve your own driver.
 

 

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14 minutes ago, Nickeagle said:

I have tried to replace my 983e/x200 combo for awhile now and it always seems to end up back in the bag. I just don’t feel the the newer drivers are as workable or controllable. My misses tend to turn into really big misses with the newer stuff. 

 

That really has little to do with the head design and more to do with getting a good fit for things like playing length, shaft weight, swing weight, and even shaft stiffness profiles (unless maybe the visual of the new heads are off-putting mentally).   Stock setups are really not very good for the average amateur when it comes to dispersion and control and most "fittings" don't do much to really help the buyer figure out the best specs to help with that problem.

 

If you want to try a new head, trying setting up with the same specs and shaft that you know are a good it for you from that club that works so well.

Edited by Stuart_G
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41 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

That really has little to do with the head design and more to do with getting a good fit for things like playing length, shaft weight, swing weight, and even shaft stiffness profiles (unless maybe the visual of the new heads are off-putting mentally).   Stock setups are really not very good for the average amateur when it comes to dispersion and control and most "fittings" don't do much to really help the buyer figure out the best specs to help with that problem.

 

If you want to try a new head, trying setting up with the same specs and shaft that you know are a good it for you from that club that works so well.


A had a few of those players, i simply call them "old school", they are used to HEAVY shafts, and shorter play length's than todays norm. Anything below 70 grams as shaft wgt, or longer than 44.00 is "no go zone", so to you @Nickeagle, keep this in mind, and see if you can locate a "heavy" (75-90 grams uncut) but SOFT shaft, and start testing around 44.00"

That shaft will be low priced since hardly nobody ask for them today, so if you do your own clubmaking, look for a heavy but relative soft "classic" model (UST V2 85 grams S flex as example, dont go X, your DG has the label X, but its soft)


 

Edited by Howard_Jones
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