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Junior Golf Hub New Ranking System


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56 minutes ago, jigsaw1011 said:

Neither, put out by Junior Golf Hub. It was just launched yesterday.

JGH does a decent YouTube podcast but they’re the equivalent of being Fiskser in the EV industry for their ranking service. JGH has Notah’s endorsement & were early trying to get this going but despite working on for 5 years they’re still struggling. 

Software development is not easy & none of the top guys know IT. Some have tried to share feedback but there’s no process for them to get this fixed. The website was down this am & they should have had a few interns check as even basic info like dates of recruits had typos…and they’re still prioritizing gettijg people to pay $119 to sign up 😂

 

 

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2 hours ago, wegobomber31 said:

It seems to reward quantity. Any name that jumps out as being higher than other ranking system is usually a player with 20+ tournaments. 

It rewards weak events on easy courses where you kick a bunch of people’s butts. It’s an awful methodology. It’s also the only system that has my son ranked inside top 100 overall, so we will definitely use it for IG posts 😉 

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2 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

Just did a random check of 2024 class - what a joke!  


One unsigned kid outside of top 300 is ranked top 100 overall in JHG - while two top 100 kids who consistently shoots below par & going to top D1s are ranked near 600 😂

Sounds like something my boy needs. Sign me up for 2 accounts.😅

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On 4/19/2024 at 7:03 PM, Pinewood Golfer said:

It rewards weak events on easy courses where you kick a bunch of people’s butts. It’s an awful methodology. It’s also the only system that has my son ranked inside top 100 overall, so we will definitely use it for IG posts 😉 

No different than Spikemark/Clippd Scoreboard.

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I listened to their podcast explaining their ranking system. A main priority was to include US Kids tournaments so there would an ability to see development over time. I personally see no need for kids under 13 to be ranked. It will just make US Kids parents crazier. They start ranking kids when they have at least played one 9 hole tournament. It is pretty low threshold. Another focus was to include as many international players and have a system to compare with US players. Also, they are keeping stats in a 2 year cycle. One positive is they are trying to eliminate the need to travel to chase ranking.  They developed the system based on input from college coaches as well as parents. 
 

They believe it will replace other ranking systems. . Time will tell.

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26 minutes ago, jigsaw1011 said:

They believe it will replace other ranking systems. . Time will tell.

They can believe whatever they want, but they've been saying this for 5 years and they're still clueless as they don't know who the audience is. As for their pitch about PDI as a predictor of future performance...yawn. 

 

I think JHB doesn't realize that college coaches can see JGS for historical #s - not just the last 12 months that players/parents see. Therefore, they can see the trends, and certainly without going back to US Kids data. 

 

Also, JGH is too caught up on the ages 8 to 12...and they've been pushing this for a while at the Notah Begay tournaments too. Perhaps they need it for TV golf sponsorships, but that tournament has really gone down hill the past two years even as they tout how good the players are. The broadcast is a two hour commercial an none of the top junior college recruits are playing in the regionals, and they certainly aren't flying into Louisiana in November to be surrounded by 8 to 12 year olds. 

 

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Ryan Burr, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Burr , is the owner of the Notah. I believe he purchased the College X tour as well. For what it's worth, his son was kicked off of Boston College golf team for cheating. Allegations of the cheating go back as far as high school days, including dad dropping balls for him.

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19 minutes ago, LawGenius305 said:

Ryan Burr, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Burr , is the owner of the Notah. I believe he purchased the College X tour as well. For what it's worth, his son was kicked off of Boston College golf team for cheating. Allegations of the cheating go back as far as high school days, including dad dropping balls for him.

No Bueno! 

 

Same thing happened for a norcal kid at Pepperdine. 

 

There's another norcal kid that has a reputation for cheating, so we'll see what happens this fall when he starts college. It would be sad if true as he's a very good golfer & certainly doesn't need to do that. 

 

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2 hours ago, jigsaw1011 said:

I listened to their podcast explaining their ranking system. A main priority was to include US Kids tournaments so there would an ability to see development over time. I personally see no need for kids under 13 to be ranked. It will just make US Kids parents crazier. They start ranking kids when they have at least played one 9 hole tournament. It is pretty low threshold. Another focus was to include as many international players and have a system to compare with US players. Also, they are keeping stats in a 2 year cycle. One positive is they are trying to eliminate the need to travel to chase ranking.  They developed the system based on input from college coaches as well as parents. 
 

They believe it will replace other ranking systems. . Time will tell.


Glad this is not my problem but it sure seems like they want to figure out if juniors are worthy by the time there 12.

 

2 years of tournaments is horrible for juniors.  With juniors there game changes and this really punishes kids who improve.


The last 10 tournaments is all that matters.

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On 4/23/2024 at 8:36 AM, LawGenius305 said:

No different than Spikemark/Clippd Scoreboard.

Very different. But I get your point. I talked with a college coach recently who explained some of his issues with it.  So I’ll retract my earlier statement, and just go with “it’s on the right track”. 
 

JGH is very much NOT on the right track

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12 hours ago, Pinewood Golfer said:

Very different. But I get your point. I talked with a college coach recently who explained some of his issues with it.  So I’ll retract my earlier statement, and just go with “it’s on the right track”. 
 

JGH is very much NOT on the right track

I disagree it is on the right track and talking to college coaches they disagree as well. A points system is terrible and the philosophy behind the Mark Broadie rankings will always fail. Using strokes gained only works if the fields are equal strength, the courses are similar, and set ups are similar. The reason the PGA works with strokes gained is because it is on such a small scale. It will never work for College Golf and the bulk of the college coaches know it won't work. This ranking system rewards shooting low red numbers in a weak field and winning by 20 strokes. It sends the wrong message and why all levels of college are not using this rankings system to determine who gets into the post season because it is that broken. They are actually have committees using the Golf Stat formula and doing it by hand to determine the post season fields.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/25/2024 at 8:24 AM, LawGenius305 said:

I disagree it is on the right track and talking to college coaches they disagree as well. A points system is terrible and the philosophy behind the Mark Broadie rankings will always fail. Using strokes gained only works if the fields are equal strength, the courses are similar, and set ups are similar. The reason the PGA works with strokes gained is because it is on such a small scale. It will never work for College Golf and the bulk of the college coaches know it won't work. This ranking system rewards shooting low red numbers in a weak field and winning by 20 strokes. It sends the wrong message and why all levels of college are not using this rankings system to determine who gets into the post season because it is that broken. They are actually have committees using the Golf Stat formula and doing it by hand to determine the post season fields.

 

In the end, the NCAA fields went straight down the line of the Broadie rankings, for better or worse

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4 hours ago, Golfquant said:

Perhaps he should compete in more US Kids and Hurricane Tour events to shore up that Golf Hub ranking

 

US Kids & Hurricane?  I'm guessing that was said in jest.

 

His WAGR is lower than Golf Hub rank.  Top 30 in class on Junior Scoreboard (JGS).  In addition to competing in 2023 US Amateur (...that's US Amateur, not US Junior Amateur), qualified & made cut at Texas Amateur, top 5 at Middle Atlantic Amateur, top 10 at St Augustine Amateur, competed in 3 PGA Monday Qualifiers.  And his rank is 3700+.  LOL

 

Bottom Line:  Golf Hub ranking system is garbage.  And for the record: both JGS & Golfweek suck too.

 

College coaches primarily use these ranking services to simply track what & where juniors compete.  And for power conference golf programs, a junior's WAGR is their primary resource.

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1 hour ago, jawsmonster said:

US Kids & Hurricane?  I'm guessing that was said in jest.

 

His WAGR is lower than Golf Hub rank.  Top 30 in class on Junior Scoreboard (JGS).  In addition to competing in 2023 US Amateur (...that's US Amateur, not US Junior Amateur), qualified & made cut at Texas Amateur, top 5 at Middle Atlantic Amateur, top 10 at St Augustine Amateur, competed in 3 PGA Monday Qualifiers.  And his rank is 3700+.  LOL

 

Bottom Line:  Golf Hub ranking system is garbage.  And for the record: both JGS & Golfweek suck too.

 

College coaches primarily use these ranking services to simply track what & where juniors compete.  And for power conference golf programs, a junior's WAGR is their primary resource.

@jawsmonster - are you txjm???

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8 hours ago, Tugu said:

 

@wegobomber31 This is literally teed up for you.


If JGS and Golfweek suck, then WAGR is definitely saying “hold my beer”. 

 

I always find it interesting when International kids play in AJGA, to see how they do against US kids who are usually always much higher in WAGR. It’s happening right now in Mexico. You’d think the kids from Latin America would have more of a home court advantage. 
 

image.png.b96339d3914ab57b0ecd9bb8da9b4b5b.png

 

8 of the top 13 WAGR ranked players are International. Their scores through 2 rounds: +8, +11, +28(!), +13, +15, +12, +12, +14

 

The 5 US WAGR kids in the top 13: -1, -1, -1, +17, +5. 
 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, wegobomber31 said:


If JGS and Golfweek suck, then WAGR is definitely saying “hold my beer”. 

 

I always find it interesting when International kids play in AJGA, to see how they do against US kids who are usually always much higher in WAGR. It’s happening right now in Mexico. You’d think the kids from Latin America would have more of a home court advantage. 
 

image.png.b96339d3914ab57b0ecd9bb8da9b4b5b.png

 

8 of the top 13 WAGR ranked players are International. Their scores through 2 rounds: +8, +11, +28(!), +13, +15, +12, +12, +14

 

The 5 US WAGR kids in the top 13: -1, -1, -1, +17, +5. 
 

 

@wegobomber31 You didn't disappoint.

 

Now wait til this summer for the kids that came through CT Pan's AJGA qualifying series. Playing 2 day events, 4 kids received full exemptions. 3 winners and an overall points winner + others who played other events who got exemptions into CT Pan's AJGA events in Texas. Fully exempted kids are high ranked WAGR kids. But one 2024 recruit is about to play JUCO cause he can't seriously break par but for a -1 for the round here or there.

 

These kids are guided by a consulting firm called Pegasus and have plotted the same path each year with AJGA events in the most obscure/weak locations possible (I dont know about the girls).

 

Interestingly they are catching on to the JGS game too. From having zero, the place has exploded to 20 JGS ranked events. Due to a plethora of high WAGR ranked players in these events that bolsters the field, look for positive CCA adjustments and a new wave of high ranked JGS players from one specific location going forward.

 

None but one so far can effectively break par, but the consulting firm (charging up to 50k usd) has professionalised "the rankings game" for a whole group willing to pay.

Edited by Tugu
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