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I've been out of golf since December trying to recover from tennis elbow in my left elbow. I finally felt like trying some practice swings and identified a particular moment in my swing when this pain is sharply occurring. Its about 4-5pm in the swing (a ft or two after impact). It looks like my left arm is flexing weird around this time. Any thoughts on what is going on? I linked a screenshot of the approximate moment when its occurring. It doesn't seem to hurt when I hit punch shots. 

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/FNNeIaY

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Trying too hard to keep left arm straight in backswing and hyper extending it.  Very common issue.

IMG_1954.png

Edited by MonteScheinblum
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All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Razor4888 said:

I've been out of golf since December trying to recover from tennis elbow in my left elbow. I finally felt like trying some practice swings and identified a particular moment in my swing when this pain is sharply occurring. Its about 4-5pm in the swing (a ft or two after impact). It looks like my left arm is flexing weird around this time. Any thoughts on what is going on? I linked a screenshot of the approximate moment when its occurring. It doesn't seem to hurt when I hit punch shots. 

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/FNNeIaY

 

 

 

 


You might want to examine the amount of practise as well as technique. For the problem appeared with me in the height of our summer season when I played a lot. 
 

Medical advice confirmed the above and that a tendon bulges outwards just south of one’s elbow.  As you can see from the device design below. I relaxed my grip and wore one of the devices ( see a pic of Jimenez ) but if I could suggest sparse use until you obtain medical advice. 
 

I recall that a gentle massage in line with the lower arm was also advised.  Good luck. 

IMG_1215.jpeg

Edited by Pastit
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19 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

Although those mats look decent, prolonged hitting off of them isn't going to help your elbow joints at all.

This.   And those thin mats are likely on a concrete base.  No give there.  
And what Monte said about hyper extending.  You also look like you’re gripping the club too tight. Your left wrist looks to me like it’s extended too much as well, I’ll let the experts confirm that.  

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Not qualified to give results on your swing, I'll leave that to the pro's. As someone who has been dealing with lateral epicondylitis (tennis elbow) for about 8 years now and has read hours upon hours of material on the subject, I'll share what is finally getting me to a better place with it.

 

First- Tyler twists with a Theraband Flexbar. You can look them up online, but they do wonders. Despite the fact that it sounds like awful advice, I recommend doing them even when/especially when sore. They hurt at first but eventually alleviate the pain. Contrary to popular advice, rest has never worked for me. I took a couple months off this winter, it didn't make a stitch of difference. I do at least 3 sets of 20 with the green bar a day if I do them at work, or 3 sets of 15 with the blue bar (heavier resistance) if at home. Don't read too much into that, I just happen to have both colors and keep one at work. Sometimes I'll do multiple sets a day. Basically, the more of them I do, the better it feels. 

 

Second- shoulder stability should be looked at. In many cases, lateral epicondylitis is a result of that tendon overcompensating for weak should stability. I have added kettlebell swings into my workouts as well as various shoulder PT exercises.


Third- Ice. As much direct ice as possible (I recommend making ice cups) and Freeze Sleeves for when I need to be more active while icing. 

 

Fourth- I recommend against cortisone shots. I had them twice, both times it came back twice as bad as before getting the shots. This time when it came back it came back bad enough that I couldn't swing a club, where previously I could, I just had to manage volume. 

 

Finally- fix whatever mechanics are causing the issue. I have been fighting a "chicken wing" follow through, it's taking time but the closer my elbows get, the less aggravated the tennis elbow gets.

 

At this point, I can hit a bag of balls as a warmup, play 36 holes, and go back and practice tomorrow. The more aggravated it gets, the more aggressive I get with doing Tyler Twists and icing. I've been hitting 60+ balls a day and it's been bothering me less and less. After 8 years, mind you. 

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Thanks for the reply. I started using the theraband but stopped after it seemed like it was only aggravating the injury. You're right about resting it - its not working. My orthopedic did tell me she's seen cases that take 18 months to go away. 

 

What barbell exercise helps with shoulder stability? 

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I fought similar symptoms for years and ended up going to lighter weight shafts with a bit more flex in my irons.  I went from PX 6.5 to Nippon 950 GH S flex.  It's made a huge difference for me.  I don't have any scientific data to prove that is what made the difference, but I rarely suffer symptoms now.

 

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2 hours ago, wagolfer7 said:

@Razor4888 - I would look into this post more.  It looks really uncomfortable especially coming into impact and after.  

 

OPOverStraight.png.483de6f5c9a62b202c852c474b17398b.pngRoryBentLeadArm.png.3449f35c528c50aef46361a396f254fe.png

150 years of golfers being told to keep their left arm straight creates a dynamic of no one wanting to hear not to do that.  Someone who buys that narrative will post a picture of that female Asian major winner (name escapes me at the moment) who hyper extends her left elbow 30* as a reason I’m wrong….🤪

 

When you give thousands of lessons and ALL of the guys with left elbow pain get rid of their forearm band a week after playing with a soft left elbow……it’’s more than correlation.

 

The narrative of finding one or a few golfers who do a nasty move and succeed as justification for that move, needs to die a more painful death than those captured by Vlad the Impailer.

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All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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21 hours ago, Razor4888 said:

I've been out of golf since December trying to recover from tennis elbow in my left elbow. I finally felt like trying some practice swings and identified a particular moment in my swing when this pain is sharply occurring. Its about 4-5pm in the swing (a ft or two after impact). It looks like my left arm is flexing weird around this time. Any thoughts on what is going on? I linked a screenshot of the approximate moment when its occurring. It doesn't seem to hurt when I hit punch shots. 

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/FNNeIaY

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please heed this advice.  The turf you are hitting off could be a GIANT problem.  My club had the same turf setup and it caused more than a few injuries to players at the club.  I ended up needing surgery on my right elbow due to the excessive impact on the tendon.  

 

Those 1 piece turf ranges are typically much much firmer than a quality mat thus compounding the force of each shot.  

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Good luck.  I had a case of tennis elbow earlier this year that has thankfully gone away.  I'm not going to blame the orange whip but I'd give it a break if you're using one.  Those theraband things seems to help me.  I like the exercise that you fight the band from pulling your tendons looser.  My bad arm tendons still feel stiff and tougher when massaging them compared to the good arm but there's no pain or symptoms except my golf swing in the toilet.  LOL.  That's another discussion.  Hope you feel better, soon!  

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6 hours ago, Razor4888 said:

Thanks for the reply. I started using the theraband but stopped after it seemed like it was only aggravating the injury. You're right about resting it - its not working. My orthopedic did tell me she's seen cases that take 18 months to go away. 

 

What barbell exercise helps with shoulder stability? 

 

The Theraband/Tyler Twist takes a bit of time to alleviate the pain.  I had bad tennis elbow several years ago - each arm in successive years.  I tried everything - PT, icing, meds, but the only thing that worked was the Theraband.  It took 3-4 weeks for me doing several sets of 15 reps a day for the pain to subside, but it worked.

 

I also switched to graphite shafts in my irons.  I haven't had a recurrence in either elbow.  I'll get a twinge from time to time, but I just do a few sets with the Flexbar and it's all good.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, dwboston said:

 

The Theraband/Tyler Twist takes a bit of time to alleviate the pain.  I had bad tennis elbow several years ago - each arm in successive years.  I tried everything - PT, icing, meds, but the only thing that worked was the Theraband.  It took 3-4 weeks for me doing several sets of 15 reps a day for the pain to subside, but it worked.

 

I also switched to graphite shafts in my irons.  I haven't had a recurrence in either elbow.  I'll get a twinge from time to time, but I just do a few sets with the Flexbar and it's all good.

Same here, had it in both elbows,  theraband started the recovery, then graphite shafts. 

 

But what seems to have made it go away permanently is strength training,  both forearms and  upper arms   Bicep curls, tricep extensions,  wrist  curls, everything to make my arms stronger.   Start with light weight and build up,  but never push it real, real hard.  Slow and steady,  more reps less weight if in doubt. It builds stability in the arms and reduces stress on the joints. 

Edited by Mike_C
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17 hours ago, Razor4888 said:

Thanks for the reply. I started using the theraband but stopped after it seemed like it was only aggravating the injury. You're right about resting it - its not working. My orthopedic did tell me she's seen cases that take 18 months to go away. 

 

What barbell exercise helps with shoulder stability? 

I've read a ton on the subject and it seems like modern understanding has shifted a bit. A lot of the old "rest it until it's better" has been contested. From personal results, using the Flexbar, even when it seems to feel like it's making it worse, seems to make it better if you power through it. My results may be different than yours, and I'm not a licensed medical professional, but I've found that the more I Flexbar, the better it feels. Sometimes that takes powering through a bit of pain and trusting that it is actually making it better. If I have a heavy use day, often the first set will hurt but by the end of the third it feels 90% better. Occasionally I need to ice it. It's been a while since I have felt like I should skip a day swinging a club though.

 

As far as exercises- as noted, kettlebell swings seem to help quite a bit. There is another protocol online suggesting you do a ton of small sets of chins- same principal of working through it until it gets better: 

 

 

Finally, here is the protocol I have been following for rehab exercises. I do this separate from my weight workouts, where the kettlebell swings are done as a warmup prior to my weight workouts:

tennis_elbow_in_text.jpg

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2 hours ago, bm11 said:

I've read a ton on the subject and it seems like modern understanding has shifted a bit. A lot of the old "rest it until it's better" has been contested. From personal results, using the Flexbar, even when it seems to feel like it's making it worse, seems to make it better if you power through it. My results may be different than yours, and I'm not a licensed medical professional, but I've found that the more I Flexbar, the better it feels. Sometimes that takes powering through a bit of pain and trusting that it is actually making it better. If I have a heavy use day, often the first set will hurt but by the end of the third it feels 90% better. Occasionally I need to ice it. It's been a while since I have felt like I should skip a day swinging a club though.

 

As far as exercises- as noted, kettlebell swings seem to help quite a bit. There is another protocol online suggesting you do a ton of small sets of chins- same principal of working through it until it gets better: 

 

 

Finally, here is the protocol I have been following for rehab exercises. I do this separate from my weight workouts, where the kettlebell swings are done as a warmup prior to my weight workouts:

tennis_elbow_in_text.jpg

What is that dudes website? Where is the "elbow" excersises protocol?

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2 hours ago, Wardonation said:

What is that dudes website? Where is the "elbow" excersises protocol?

He's a strength training guru, but a lot of people have reported success for his "tennis elbow cure."

 

As far as the exercises, do you see the attached picture at the bottom of the post?

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On 5/17/2024 at 6:58 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Someone who buys that narrative will post a picture of that female Asian major winner (name escapes me at the moment) who hyper extends her left elbow 30* as a reason I’m wrong….🤪

I'm going to get rid of this vomit I now have in my mouth, thanks!

 

JFC, his linked video still was bad enough AFA that goes.

 

Reverse Tyler twists and pullups (along with embracing graphite in all the things) has cured mine, OP. Though it wasn't as bad as yours sounds.

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I'll offer a caveat to the pull-ups: Grip orientation. Unless I'm doing supinated (aka, chin-ups), I use angled grip handles rather than just grabbing the bar with a typical pronated grip. After I recovered from elbow surgery and started back on the pull-up bar, I noticed that the typical pronated grip was putting additional stress on my elbow. I hadn't noticed that prior, but it was suddenly pretty obvious when the elbow was still slightly tender. 

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On 5/17/2024 at 4:58 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

150 years of golfers being told to keep their left arm straight creates a dynamic of no one wanting to hear not to do that.  Someone who buys that narrative will post a picture of that female Asian major winner (name escapes me at the moment) who hyper extends her left elbow 30* as a reason I’m wrong….🤪

 

When you give thousands of lessons and ALL of the guys with left elbow pain get rid of their forearm band a week after playing with a soft left elbow……it’’s more than correlation.

 

The narrative of finding one or a few golfers who do a nasty move and succeed as justification for that move, needs to die a more painful death than those captured by Vlad the Impailer.


Folks, Monte absolutely nailed the root cause of the problem!!  Your video looks like lots of tension in the left arm which should just be passive and go along for the ride.  
 

Most golfers don’t realize it’s the trail arm extensor action that makes the lead arm appear relatively straight.  But lead arm needs to stay relatively soft and relaxed.  
 

Like Monte, I’ve seen countless lead elbow problems clear up when golfers realize they can just relax that arm and not try to force it straight throughout the swing.  

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On 5/19/2024 at 8:31 AM, johnrobison said:

I'll offer a caveat to the pull-ups: Grip orientation. Unless I'm doing supinated (aka, chin-ups), I use angled grip handles rather than just grabbing the bar with a typical pronated grip. After I recovered from elbow surgery and started back on the pull-up bar, I noticed that the typical pronated grip was putting additional stress on my elbow. I hadn't noticed that prior, but it was suddenly pretty obvious when the elbow was still slightly tender. 

I haven't done the chin up protocol, so I can't speak to it with certainty, but I believe in watching the video that the whole point is minor aggravation- you keep hitting it over and over again with mild aggravation and eventually it causes an adaptation. 

 

I'm a bit of an odd case though- I have had tendonitis for 8 years, it's in both of my elbows, but other than feeling it in my golf swing it doesn't really effect much. My chin up bar at home is angled, so maybe that's why, but I can do sets of 12 of (wrist strapped) chins with a 45 pound weight and not feel it at all in my elbows. It isn't just the straps, either, as when I'm doing deload weeks I don't bother to strap up because I'll do them unweighted and I still don't feel it. Could be the angled bar though, it's just what I have so it's what I use. I do have to avoid straight bar barbell curls- those do kill my elbows. And reverse straight bar curls. 

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Same here. Reverse curls are a definite no - hammer curls, sometimes. And my bicep curls have to be done out to the side so never a straight bar, always with dumbbells. I think your angled pull-up bar is a big plus for you since it helps to reduce the amount of internal rotation at full extension.

 

I don't disagree entirely with stressing the tissue a bit to strengthen and stretch it. A bit. My surgeon was telling me how tricky that joint and tendon is and I think there are ways to strengthen and stretch it and a fine line between that and over-aggravating it. For me, the internal rotation while fully extended was definitely causing aggravation over time. So a bit of stressing it that way with the FlexBar is helpful. But under load, like with a weighted pull-up, is too much.

 

YMMV

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1 hour ago, johnrobison said:

My surgeon was telling me how tricky that joint and tendon is and I think there are ways to strengthen and stretch it and a fine line between that and over-aggravating it.

I know when my elbow was the worst, I was rehabing regularly at home with light weights and things were slowly getting better. One day I stupidly tried to up the weight some, and I took it just a bit too much and I instantly regretted it, set myself back a month or two I swear......

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3 hours ago, johnrobison said:

Same here. Reverse curls are a definite no - hammer curls, sometimes. And my bicep curls have to be done out to the side so never a straight bar, always with dumbbells. I think your angled pull-up bar is a big plus for you since it helps to reduce the amount of internal rotation at full extension.

 

I don't disagree entirely with stressing the tissue a bit to strengthen and stretch it. A bit. My surgeon was telling me how tricky that joint and tendon is and I think there are ways to strengthen and stretch it and a fine line between that and over-aggravating it. For me, the internal rotation while fully extended was definitely causing aggravation over time. So a bit of stressing it that way with the FlexBar is helpful. But under load, like with a weighted pull-up, is too much.

 

YMMV

At this point, for me personally I tend to believe that my issue may be pain sensitivity more than anything. I've read some that chronic tendonitis (especially lateral epicondylitis) can be that- essentially what happens is that the nerves get really good at producing pain signals, and don't ever really stop. That may be why the more I throw stuff at it, the better it seems to get. In my case, it shouldn't be as a result of any weak forearm muscles at this point, my forearms are bigger than the average male bicep and strong enough to produce a grip great enough to deadlift in the 400's for reps without straps. Regardless, I seem to have gotten it to the point where it's manageable, the pain never is much worse than a simmer. I'm hoping that as my mechanics continue to improve, I continue to make strides. I only recently have come to discover how tension free a good swing really is supposed to be after years of struggling. I hit a bag of balls as a warmup and then played 36 yesterday, today I'm fine.

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I may have just had an epiphany- I've read about the chronic pain perspective, and that massaging the site can help. Today, with minor aggravation after yesterdays full day of swinging clubs, I decided to try an experiment- I found the most sensitive (to touch) point and pressed it hard into the corner of my desk. Think "9 out of 10" on the pain scale. I used the corner of the desk to painfully massage it. After doing so, the aggravation I was feeling is completely gone. Like "can't even locate it by touch" gone.


I'm not qualified to give that as a recommendation, and logic would say that this solution would only be a potential for long term aggravation, not a recent injury. 

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