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Hello!

 

New to the forum here as a poster, but have been an avid reader for some time!

I would like some advice on my swing! 

 

Looking at the data I usually have a swing path and face path of around <2 degrees from neutral. However I feel like I don't have any high level of consistency in my strikes, sometimes I hit them a bit fat, sometimes I hook or pull and sometimes I feel overall stiff in my strike. I have tons of ideas on what I should change, but rather than me continued to guess I would like some input from others as well! I am planning to book coaching session soon as well!

 

These two videos of my swing are not my best, I think I pushed one and hit one fat. But I think they maybe just highlights the inconsistency I have.

Please let me know if you have any guidance! Thank you!

 

Not sure how relevant it is; HCP around 28, can hit a 7iron around 145m and driver club head speed of around 105mph.

 

Video1

 

Video2

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Everything here is a more extreme version of exactly what was discussed in this thread

In your case a severe restriction in wrist set is being compensated for by an equally severe over-rotation of the shoulders. You're in excess of 150* of shoulder rotation because you have no wrist set by the time you've reached a more appropriate 90*-100* in the backswing so it has to continue to allow that wrist set to happen later, and in doing so you get *way* out of bounds by the time you reach the "top". It's pure hand-eye coordination that you're able to hit the ball with any speed from here because none of where your backswing ends up is conducive to hitting good shots.

You're clearly flexible and athletic enough to be able to even physically do this, but it's all bad what you're doing with that ability. A bit of a "with great power comes great responsibility" Spider-Man lesson here in that you're using all your powers for evil right now, if that makes sense lol. The wrist drills I linked in the post above are even more relevant to you as you're going to need to feel some drastic shifts to get your backswing back into a good fundamental range. It will likely feel like 200% less shoulder rotation and 200% more wrist hinge to get them back in balance which each other so you can make a properly sequenced downswing, and the swings themselves might even feel like a half swing compared to what you're doing now, and it should, because you're making a 250% swing now. The "left arm parallel with power" backswings Padraig mentions in the video I linked are where you should definitely start, because they are the fastest way to force correct wrist action and get you to feel the lack of it you currently have.

Also ironically you're leaving a lot of speed on the table right now because of these issues. 105mph driver clubhead speed with your build and the amount of effort you're expending to make this swing work suggests some significant power leaks, to my eye you should easily be 115mph+ with proper wrist/hand fundamentals and a better sequenced backswing. 

Edited by Valtiel
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Posted (edited)

@ValtielThank you Valtiel! This is exactly the type of guidance I was hoping for! I had a feeling that I'm rotating to much, but had no clue about the wrist action. I can definitely feel the overrotation in the body as my back can get quite sore after an hour or two on the range!

 

Will take a look at the videos and try out the drills to see if I can get something working! Will share my progress / non-progress when I have tried some! Thank you again!

 

Edit: I think I have maybe in part actively been working against wrist hinge at some point. As in my driver swing I actively think to take the club back very wide, which I guess would stop any wrist hinge.

Edited by markusw
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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, markusw said:

@ValtielThank you Valtiel! This is exactly the type of guidance I was hoping for! I had a feeling that I'm rotating to much, but had no clue about the wrist action. I can definitely feel the overrotation in the body as my back can get quite sore after an hour or two on the range!

 

Will take a look at the videos and try out the drills to see if I can get something working! Will share my progress / non-progress when I have tried some! Thank you again!

 

Edit: I think I have maybe in part actively been working against wrist hinge at some point. As in my driver swing I actively think to take the club back very wide, which I guess would stop any wrist hinge.


No problem, and yeah that is a very common reason to start doing that. I was looking at old videos of my swing recently when I was going through a similar phase; big wide takeaway with very little wrist hinge. It's a massive power leak and can lead to all sorts of sequencing and low point control issues. You're very likely rotating as much as you are instinctively because your wrists don't start to hinge until you're turned 90*:

image.png.c002ebb29d485f6c983a342a850c62a6.png

Not properly engaging your wrists leads to many common problems; the aforementioned over-rotation and subsequent back pain inducing attempts to generate speed from such an extreme edge of your range of motion, and all sorts of shaft plane issues where the club gets inside/flat/stuck/across the line etc etc which requires additional compensations to hit the ball, leading to inconsistencies. If you're curious, please browse the other threads and you'll notice how common this issue is. Padraig's wrist drills and their goal of getting you to effectively hit half swings shots with power helps address so many of these problems all at once while simultaneously giving you new shots that you never had before. Because if you tried to make a left arm parallel swing like he recommends with your current wrist conditions:

ScreenShot2024-05-21at12_10_25AM.png.a53d93a39584d9efcd44847b697e4635.png

You'd have trouble even making contact. Getting the wrists active in the same way high level golfers do via Padraig's drills will give you the foundation to build a far better swing and will eliminate the need to torque your upper body into a pretzel just to generate power. And for reference, my driver swing was around 110-112mph back when I swung with restricted wrists, and i'm 118-122mph now with the ability to go 125mph+ on a good day, and you're noticeably leaner and stronger looking than I am currently so you've got tons of untapped potential. 

Edited by Valtiel
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3 minutes ago, Valtiel said:


No problem, and yeah that is a very common reason to start doing that. I was looking at old videos of my swing recently when I was going through a similar phase; big wide takeaway with very little wrist hinge. It's a massive power leak and can lead to all sorts of sequencing and low point control issues. You're very likely rotating as much as you are instinctively because your wrists don't start to hinge until you're turned 90*:

image.png.c002ebb29d485f6c983a342a850c62a6.png

Not properly engaging your wrists leads to many common problems; the aforementioned over-rotation and subsequent back pain inducing attempts to generate speed from such an extreme edge of your range of motion, and all sorts of shaft plane issues where the club gets inside/flat/stuck/across the line etc etc which requires additional compensations to hit the ball, leading to inconsistencies. If you're curious, please browse the other threads and you'll notice how common this issue is. Padraig's wrist drills and their goal of getting you to effectively hit half swings shots with power helps address so many of these problems all at once while simultaneously giving you new shots that you never had before. Because if you tried to make a left arm parallel swing like he recommends with your current wrist conditions:

ScreenShot2024-05-21at12_10_25AM.png.a53d93a39584d9efcd44847b697e4635.png

You'd have trouble even making contact. Getting the wrists active in the same way high level golfers do via Padraig's drills will give you the foundation to build a far better swing and will eliminate the need to torque your upper body into a pretzel just to generate power. And for reference, my driver swing was around 110-112mph back when I swung with restricted wrists, and i'm 118-122mph now with the ability to go 125mph+ on a good day, and you're leaner and stronger looking than I am currently so you've got tons of untapped potential. 

 

Thank you for this detailed response! Seeing this side by side comparison it's very obvious how late my wrists are moving! And I think I might have worked on improving my impact consistency by trying to create some form of lag, but without any of the wrists. Which maybe just have exaggerated my shoulder rotation even more!

 

I watched the videos and just so I'm sure I'm focusing on the right exercises; it's in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtyPwYs5IE&t=12s video around the 4:20 mark?

 

Padraig also mentions about the issues with short wedge swings from not working with your wrist, which I can definitely relate to. I almost always-always hit my short wedges on the toe and pull them to the left. 

 

Can't wait to try this out! Been searching for what piece of the puzzle I have been missing! 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/21/2024 at 12:32 AM, markusw said:

 

Thank you for this detailed response! Seeing this side by side comparison it's very obvious how late my wrists are moving! And I think I might have worked on improving my impact consistency by trying to create some form of lag, but without any of the wrists. Which maybe just have exaggerated my shoulder rotation even more!

 

I watched the videos and just so I'm sure I'm focusing on the right exercises; it's in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtyPwYs5IE&t=12s video around the 4:20 mark?

 

Padraig also mentions about the issues with short wedge swings from not working with your wrist, which I can definitely relate to. I almost always-always hit my short wedges on the toe and pull them to the left. 

 

Can't wait to try this out! Been searching for what piece of the puzzle I have been missing! 

 

 


Yup exactly that, that whole section from 4:00-4:30. And yes this will directly impact and improve wedge play and anything involving a partial swing. When your wrists aren't active in the right ways, or actively being restricted, the rest of your swing mechanics start becoming like a scar tissue that forms around this deficiency, from full swings all the way down to pitches. They twist and stretch into unseemly positions to compensate for the abnormality, and often more so the more physically fit and flexible you are. It's a very common comment from people struggling with this to say "I feel like I can't physically make a shorter swing" or when prompted to make as short a swing as possible with something like a wedge to still execute something as long as some professional's driver swings. Tha hands and wrists create TONS of speed in every single pro's golf swing, whether it looks like they do or not. 

The thread I tagged you in originally is poking fun at how common this issue is. The OP Monte is a well respected instructor and former long drive champion that could still outdrive 98% of the entire golfing population despite looking like the manager of a Jiffy Lube. He posted this video recently highlighting some of the things i'm referring to above. 

Edited by Valtiel
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  • 3 weeks later...

Finally got some time to go and practice all these amazing tips! I have only had time for one range session trying out the Padraigs wristdrills so I am no where near done with them!

 

But wanted to share an update of my experience! I feel like there is massive speed to be found when activating my wrists! Although it is also quite hard, generally I feel that when I try to go full speed with my wrists it's my torso that starts working instead of the wrists. I now try to take back the club with the wrists first and immediately I have a new feeling of where to stop the backswing, which is way earlier. I think I still overrotate, but not as much. At home I've been practicing a bit with a broom and it feels way easier to increase speed in my wrists with a light object in comparison to my golfclub. Going from padraigs drill to my full swing I'm not yet finding a smooth flow, so I definitely need some more practice!

 

Comparing this session with 150 golfballs compared to my last one, my back is already thanking me - it is so much more forgiving!

 

As I focused on the feeling of activating my wrists I didn't really pay much attention to the performance and numbers of the swing. Although I could see that I almost reached my full 9iron distance on the Padraig exercise as with my previous full swing, 115m in compared to 120-125m. It was also quite interesting to note that I got an out-to-in swing path with these changes, around -6 degrees club path. 

 

Front - Padraig drill

 

Front - Full swing

 

Back - Full swing

 

 

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A few things.

 

At set up you have your feet too close together. Think of the legs as a good base. If you were to jump as high as you could, would u put your feet together? Try to have them a little wider than your shoulders.

 

The biggest issue i see is the takeaway. @Valtiel is right. You need to get the wrist set earlier. I dont see it yet. I think its because you throw the club behind you. Its why you have such a long backswing. Work instead on bringing the club up with the arms. The arms should never be moved horizontal. The turn will bring the club back behind you, not your arms. Do some practice swings where you simply pick the club vertically. No lower body movement. No turn. Then you can slowly start adding in some shoulder turn to grt the club behind you. I think Monte's no turn backswing would help, but as Valtiel says, you gotta set the wrists earlier as well.

 

The golf swing is dynamic. If you start with the club sucking behind in the takeaway, it will want to come over the top in the downswing due to forces, which is what you are still doing.

Edited by slytown
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@markusw Agreed with the points above. While this *is* better, the main issue I see is that in the Padraig Drill video you're still attempting to make full swings. The point of the drill is to force you to set your wrists earlier because you're supposed to be restricted to making *half* swings, so if you try to force your old full swing feel/pattern into the drill then you risk missing the point of it. That first video's swing should be 50% shorter, basically left arm parallel. The reason for this is that your full swing (third video) has functionally no effective wrist set until WAY into the backswing. The lack of correct earlier wrist set gets the club flat and behind you as @slytown noted, and then the late wrist set gets your left wrist extremely cupped and all the extension is gone from your right wrist, basically one of those "backwards" patterns where both are 180* from where they should be.

Additional note to that, both of your full swings have you completely ignoring any sort of weight sequencing with your lower body. You're going up to the top, setting your wrists late and getting out of position, all while basically staying planted on your back leg, which you then start your downswing from. Don't this either, this is encouraging you to get completely stuck in your downswing because you can't rotate off your back leg. If I ever felt this in my swing when doing a drill:

image.png.05848636cb8341bcb52c0d8d959e65a9.png

I'd stop everything and reassess, especially given that this drill is meant to encourage maximum use of the hands/arms with a quieter body, and you're using a ton of body and comparatively much less hand/arm, which is backwards, and the body you are using isn't correct

These points have to be harped on because without someone in person to correct you, you're going to revert to instincts which is exactly what you (and most adult golfers) need to reprogram. It's like the adult version of this:

image.gif.8fa3d2874f7fda0014f2768297b3a7d9.gif

While more extreme, this kid is doing what most golfers struggle with, especially self taught ones. Backwards use of the body via stepping forward with the wrong leg (attempting to incorrectly use the dominant side for power), attempting to propel the ball with just the arm (no wrist involvement), and issues with coordinating any amount of rotation. Kids that struggle with gross motor development issues revert to the most base movement patterns in the same way many adult golfers do and for similar reasons; the correct pattern is unintuitive and learned. The problems is that adults are strong enough to basically bulldoze over these fundamentals and get away with doing things "wrong". You quickly run into a pretty low ceiling however and realizing it's a set of intuitive instincts that trapped you there, recognizing what those are, unlearning them, and relearning the correct ones is the overall lesson plan, but that is VERY hard to do alone, hence emphasizing the severity and proposing very restrictive drills.

Based on your first swings + these latest videos, you need to keep doing the "feet together" portion of the drill but VERY strictly limit yourself to a left arm parallel to the ground backswing. Anything further than that is going to continue encouraging all the things you're doing wrong right now. Check yourself in face on video looking for that combo of left arm parallel/club vertical that Padraig describes, and attempt to generate power ONLY from the hands. If you can take both face on and DTL videos of that then that is the only thing we need to see right now.

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Had to reread and watch a couple of times just to sink in all the information and advice you are giving me. Thank you for taking the time to help me out, i really appreciate it!

 

@slytown Rewatching I can now really see what you are talking about! Valtiel also mentioned it but I didn’t have the eyes to see it yet. I think I try to activate my wrists by taking the club backwards instead of upwards! And I can see it in my glove on just the first frames trying to rotate in that direction first rather than setting the wrists! 

 

@Valtiel Yes! The video was me doing the Padraig swing when he tries to generate full power! Which I probably should avoid as I’ve yet to set the basics! I think I didn’t quite fully grasp the wrist set before but think I have clearer picture now! 

 

I think I before actually had a quite good weight shifting going on. But somewhere along the path of trying to improve my swing on my own has lead me here. 

 

I’ll continue on the Padraig half swings and get back to you all with some videos soon! Thanks for your patience! 

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