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Options for X100 Replacements


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Posted (edited)

Hey all,

 

Was fit into X100s a few months back, but have not liked them much in my rounds. Low ball flights in the long irons and some inexplicable pushes. Also don't love the weight.

 

I hit a ton of shafts today on quad and the ones I liked the best (in this order) were: PX IO, KBS Tour V, and Nippon Modus Tour 3.

 

My swing has a moderate/smooth transition, pretty late release, and low delivered loft (often 10° less than stated loft). I am getting peak heights between 85-95 feet and often descent angles < 45°. I don't think speed is the issue (7i around 90mph), so my goal is to find a shaft that can raise trajectory a bit. Some suggested bending lofts weaker, but even my gap and pitching wedges are only flying 90 feet.

 

Project X IO raised my peak height to around 100 feet with land angles around 46°. Was hitting a T200 7i with ProV1X off mats - not sure how that influences ball flight.

 

Unfortunately the place I tested at only had the PX IO in 6.0 flex, but it felt just fine to me. Ball flight had decent amount of draw, but it seemed pretty predictable. Question is, should I try and find a 6.5 to hit, or keep it simple and just go with the 6.0 flex?

Edited by romeyjdogg
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  • romeyjdogg changed the title to Options for X100 Replacements

Shaft alone isn't going to change trajectory. You mentioned using T200 and Pro V1x. Those two variables have way more to do with you raising your peak height than anything else. Is T200 and Pro V1x what you currently play? If that's what you play with, and the draw is predictable, 6.0 shouldn't be an issue. Unless you insist on seeing the ball go right.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, AllShowNoDough said:

Shaft alone isn't going to change trajectory. You mentioned using T200 and Pro V1x. Those two variables have way more to do with you raising your peak height than anything else. Is T200 and Pro V1x what you currently play? If that's what you play with, and the draw is predictable, 6.0 shouldn't be an issue. Unless you insist on seeing the ball go right.

What you mentioned is basically what I saw - no shaft directly changed trajectory except for the Px IO, which was weird. I also hit T150 for grins and thought I'd see higher flight with more loft, but nope, almost the same as T200.

 

Yes, I play the OG 2019 T200s, so I was trying to compare as apples to apples as possible with newest T200. All shafts were tested with the T200 head, so I could see any differences between while keeping the head and golf ball constant.

 

I hate seeing the long hooks that move way right to left, but I didn't see any of those on Quad. I sometimes get flippy with the hands, which is more my issue than equipment.

Edited by romeyjdogg
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11 hours ago, romeyjdogg said:

Hey all,

 

Was fit into X100s a few months back, but have not liked them much in my rounds. Low ball flights in the long irons and some inexplicable pushes. Also don't love the weight.

 

I hit a ton of shafts today on quad and the ones I liked the best (in this order) were: PX IO, KBS Tour V, and Nippon Modus Tour 3.

 

My swing has a moderate/smooth transition, pretty late release, and low delivered loft (often 10° less than stated loft). I am getting peak heights between 85-95 feet and often descent angles < 45°. I don't think speed is the issue (7i around 90mph), so my goal is to find a shaft that can raise trajectory a bit. Some suggested bending lofts weaker, but even my gap and pitching wedges are only flying 90 feet.

 

Project X IO raised my peak height to around 100 feet with land angles around 46°. Was hitting a T200 7i woth ProV1X off mats - not sure how that influences ball flight.

 

Unfortunately the place I tested at only had the PX IO in 6.0 flex, but it felt just fine to me. Ball flight had decent amount of draw, but it seemed pretty predictable. Question is, should I try and find a 6.5 to hit, or keep it simple and just go with the 6.0 flex?

DG 120 X100

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1 minute ago, romeyjdogg said:

I was hoping to try that one, but the place I was at didn't have it available.

Just seems like a good idea to split the difference between what the fitter chose (x100) but at the weight you prefer, which looks to be about 120g. Did you contact the person that fit you into X100 about your concerns? 

 

The other thing I would think to consider is working on the mechanics of your swing that are causing a lower ball flight. I swing my 7i about 90mph, but have no trouble hitting 110 ft with T150's. My previous set of T100 w/ X100 were right about 90. That's with a swing that's slightly out-to-in and a little too steep. Peak heights would be higher/will be higher when I fix my swing. That would lead me to believe the biggest room for improvement in peak height is going to be changing your delivery into the ball.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

Just seems like a good idea to split the difference between what the fitter chose (x100) but at the weight you prefer, which looks to be about 120g. Did you contact the person that fit you into X100 about your concerns? 

 

The other thing I would think to consider is working on the mechanics of your swing that are causing a lower ball flight. I swing my 7i about 90mph, but have no trouble hitting 110 ft with T150's. My previous set of T100 w/ X100 were right about 90. That's with a swing that's slightly out-to-in and a little too steep. Peak heights would be higher/will be higher when I fix my swing. That would lead me to believe the biggest room for improvement in peak height is going to be changing your delivery into the ball.

Yep, I've been in contact with my fitter about it. I won't belabor the point, but even the trackman data from our fitting session shows 7i land angles at about 44° with the X100s. He's going to pull the shafts for me and install whatever new ones I want. I tend to swing faster outside, but I think that happens to a lot of people.

 

I was messing around with ball position and moving a ball or two forward gave me higher trajectories, so maybe it's as simple as that. My path is typically 3-5° from inside, so I don't spin the ball a lot either. When I played PX LZ (5.5) with the same heads, I would see peak heights up to 115 feet, but I'm guessing it's more a delivery and setup thing going on now.

Edited by romeyjdogg
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18 minutes ago, romeyjdogg said:

I was hoping to try that one, but the place I was at didn't have it available.

I recently switched from the OG Dynamic Gold to DG 120. Obviously lighter, but also a bit softer under the handle which would likely suit your smoother tempo very well. Having said that, I'd be remiss to recommend ordering them without hitting them first. Would it be worth the effort to try them for yourself? Most certainly yes.

You already had a high launch, high spin ball in the loop so that lever has already been pulled.

 

The T200 is a strong lofted iron, and they're not for everybody even though they're "forgiving", however one chooses to define that. Peak height is a function of both launch angle and ball speed, so I wouldn't let the low peak heights of your shorter irons sway you off of trying weaker lofts. Have to match the static lofts to your delivery characteristics and it sounds like you deliver less dynamic loft than most...which is fine but it likely means that stronger static lofts aren't the best solution for you.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, bcflyguy1 said:

I recently switched from the OG Dynamic Gold to DG 120. Obviously lighter, but also a bit softer under the handle which would likely suit your smoother tempo very well. Having said that, I'd be remiss to recommend ordering them without hitting them first. Would it be worth the effort to try them for yourself? Most certainly yes.

You already had a high launch, high spin ball in the loop so that lever has already been pulled.

 

The T200 is a strong lofted iron, and they're not for everybody even though they're "forgiving", however one chooses to define that. Peak height is a function of both launch angle and ball speed, so I wouldn't let the low peak heights of your shorter irons sway you off of trying weaker lofts. Have to match the static lofts to your delivery characteristics and it sounds like you deliver less dynamic loft than most...which is fine but it likely means that stronger static lofts aren't the best solution for you.

Yeah that's a great point, thanks. I think I have to explore weakening the lofts anyway on 7i-5i because they aren't gapped appropriately anymore. Not sure if that's something I'm doing, or if I'm just more cognizant of it now that I've seen longer carries on Trackman.

 

I'm also trying to stick with my T200s because they're in great shape, and I'm being cheap not wanting to spring for a new set 😆

Edited by romeyjdogg
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Posted (edited)

If you're wanting to try the DG 120 X100, I'd also throw in the Modus 115X. The DG 120 and Modus 115 have a super similar profile. I play the 115S right now and love them.

Edited by etodd
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15 hours ago, romeyjdogg said:

 

My swing has a moderate/smooth transition, pretty late release, and low delivered loft (often 10° less than stated loft). I am getting peak heights between 85-95 feet and often descent angles < 45°. I don't think speed is the issue (7i around 90mph), so my goal is to find a shaft that can raise trajectory a bit. Some suggested bending lofts weaker, but even my gap and pitching wedges are only flying 90 feet.

What I don't see is your spin rate.  That 7 iron is really a 6 iron so I would want to see 5,500 to 6,000 RPMs on a stock swing.

 

Rule of thumb for swing speed/peak height relationship is about perfect.  My question would be if spin loft or dynamic loft is getting it there.  If Dynamic Gold is a good fit for your swing the ball should basically climb until it's ready to fall out of the sky.

 

Most good swing coaches will tell that when your swing is in a good place every club in your bag should have basically the same peak height. The only difference is how far away that peak happens.

 

It it were me I would try the X100 in a higher spinning head and see what happens.  I would not simply weaken the lofts to get more spin.  That is fine in longer irons but will take out offset and and increase bounce, PW and 9 iron that appear to have onset and a raised leading edge isn't optimal.  If you hit the T200 try the T150 and T100.  My guess is you might pick up a few yard of carry and a better decent angle.

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4 hours ago, romeyjdogg said:

I don't spin the ball a lot either.

This statement says a lot in the context of the question you are asking.  If you are a low spin player putting a low spin/launch shaft in a lower spin head doesn't make a lot of sense.  

 

If you go in to be re-fit forget total distance numbers and concentrate on efficiency, carry, spin, and dispersion numbers. With the swing speed and head you mentioned I would say carry in the low 180s with spin in the low 5,000s be a really good place for you.

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1 hour ago, ProV1Killa said:

What I don't see is your spin rate.  That 7 iron is really a 6 iron so I would want to see 5,500 to 6,000 RPMs on a stock swing.

 

Rule of thumb for swing speed/peak height relationship is about perfect.  My question would be if spin loft or dynamic loft is getting it there.  If Dynamic Gold is a good fit for your swing the ball should basically climb until it's ready to fall out of the sky.

 

Most good swing coaches will tell that when your swing is in a good place every club in your bag should have basically the same peak height. The only difference is how far away that peak happens.

 

It it were me I would try the X100 in a higher spinning head and see what happens.  I would not simply weaken the lofts to get more spin.  That is fine in longer irons but will take out offset and and increase bounce, PW and 9 iron that appear to have onset and a raised leading edge isn't optimal.  If you hit the T200 try the T150 and T100.  My guess is you might pick up a few yard of carry and a better decent angle.

If I recall correctly, I saw spin rates (on the mat) between 4850 - 5300 rpm, so pretty low. Perhaps the mat has some influence on this, but I've always been a low spin player. When I hit the T150, numbers were about the same, which confused me.

 

Based on the 2023 ball test data, I've moved to a Vice Pro Plus to get steeper descent and higher spin. I can't recall any issues on the course holding greens, but I also haven't hit many 6i or 5i into greens.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, ProV1Killa said:

This statement says a lot in the context of the question you are asking.  If you are a low spin player putting a low spin/launch shaft in a lower spin head doesn't make a lot of sense.  

 

If you go in to be re-fit forget total distance numbers and concentrate on efficiency, carry, spin, and dispersion numbers. With the swing speed and head you mentioned I would say carry in the low 180s with spin in the low 5,000s be a really good place for you.

Looking at my last trackman report and I see 7i carry right about at 180 on the button, spin 5100-5200, land angle 44° dynamic loft 20° (30° club loft), -5° AoA.

Edited by romeyjdogg
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11 minutes ago, romeyjdogg said:

Looking at my last trackman report and I see 7i carry right about at 180 on the button, spin 5100-5200, land angle 44° dynamic loft 20° (30° club loft), -5° AoA.

That isn't far off what I would want to see.  Loft wise that is really a 6 iron with COG to promote higher launch.  My swing speed is a bit higher, 94 average 7 iron.  My 7 iron is 4 degrees weaker than yours and my avg carry is 174 at 6,800 RPMs, 6 iron at 30 degrees is 186 at 5,700 RPMs.  Peak height at 100 for both.  I have X100 soft stepped  in my irons for reference.  I would say height and carry difference is just the difference in spin rate.  

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5 minutes ago, ProV1Killa said:

That isn't far off what I would want to see.  Loft wise that is really a 6 iron with COG to promote higher launch.  My swing speed is a bit higher, 94 average 7 iron.  My 7 iron is 4 degrees weaker than yours and my avg carry is 174 at 6,800 RPMs, 6 iron at 30 degrees is 186 at 5,700 RPMs.  Peak height at 100 for both.  I have X100 soft stepped  in my irons for reference.  I would say height and carry difference is just the difference in spin rate.  

Good to know I'm in the ballpark.

 

I was just very confused as to why my land angles were so shallow with decent impact dynamics.

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32 minutes ago, romeyjdogg said:

Good to know I'm in the ballpark.

 

I was just very confused as to why my land angles were so shallow with decent impact dynamics.

I’d the ball turning left?  From what you posted it makes me think the spin axis is promoting a low draw.  Those can start to get a little divey with the hollow bodies irons.

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7 minutes ago, romeyjdogg said:

My natural shot shape is a draw, yes.

 

Even the T150 came in at about the same land angle.

I think that’s having a bigger influence.

 

if you can hit the t150s, give the t100s a shot.  They aren’t any harder to hit, you have enough club head speed, and spin should and extra dynamic loft give you a it more peak height.

 

they will probably fly 10 yards shorts, but come in about 47-50 degrees with a 7.

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1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

 

if you can hit the t150s, give the t100s a shot.  They aren’t any harder to hit, you have enough club head speed, and spin should and extra dynamic loft give you a it more peak height.

 

they will probably fly 10 yards shorts, but come in about 47-50 degrees with a 7.

Exactly, same thought just far more concise wording.

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On 5/22/2024 at 3:56 AM, romeyjdogg said:

Hey all,

 

Was fit into X100s a few months back, but have not liked them much in my rounds. Low ball flights in the long irons and some inexplicable pushes. Also don't love the weight.

 

I hit a ton of shafts today on quad and the ones I liked the best (in this order) were: PX IO, KBS Tour V, and Nippon Modus Tour 3.

 

My swing has a moderate/smooth transition, pretty late release, and low delivered loft (often 10° less than stated loft). I am getting peak heights between 85-95 feet and often descent angles < 45°. I don't think speed is the issue (7i around 90mph), so my goal is to find a shaft that can raise trajectory a bit. Some suggested bending lofts weaker, but even my gap and pitching wedges are only flying 90 feet.

 

Project X IO raised my peak height to around 100 feet with land angles around 46°. Was hitting a T200 7i with ProV1X off mats - not sure how that influences ball flight.

 

Unfortunately the place I tested at only had the PX IO in 6.0 flex, but it felt just fine to me. Ball flight had decent amount of draw, but it seemed pretty predictable. Question is, should I try and find a 6.5 to hit, or keep it simple and just go with the 6.0 flex?

 

 

PX IO is the softest PX model, so you clearly have use both too much weight and too strong flex
In your shoes, i would go for them, and tweak lofts to get ball flight right.

Loft is loft, no matter what makes it, be it a shaft that bends and deliver more loft, or by tweaking static loft.
BOTH options has the same consequence for ALL return value, (Launch, spin, apex descent, carry, roll and bounce)
Its NO way to overrule that, so when shafts feels good, but ball flight is still off, tweak static lofts.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

 

PX IO is the softest PX model, so you clearly have use both too much weight and too strong flex
In your shoes, i would go for them, and tweak lofts to get ball flight right.

Loft is loft, no matter what makes it, be it a shaft that bends and deliver more loft, or by tweaking static loft.
BOTH options has the same consequence for ALL return value, (Launch, spin, apex descent, carry, roll and bounce)
Its NO way to overrule that, so when shafts feels good, but ball flight is still off, tweak static lofts.  

Thanks. I'll be honest, I'm one of those people that can't tell much difference between shafts. Some feel slightly different than others, but I think I notice mostly weight and balance point rather than bend profile.

 

In fact, I hit the Project X Rifle 6.5 for grins and it also felt fine. I could probably play a bunch of different shafts and never notice the difference.

 

So the IO 6.0 would be overall softer than the 6.0 PX LZ as well? And out of curiosity, what does the PX IO profile look like? I read similar to dynamic gold or Modus Tour 3 (softer handle, stiff mid, stiff tip)

Edited by romeyjdogg
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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, romeyjdogg said:

Thanks. I'll be honest, I'm one of those people that can't tell much difference between shafts. Some feel slightly different than others, but I think I notice mostly weight and balance point rather than bend profile.

 

In fact, I hit the Project X Rifle 6.5 for grins and it also felt fine. I could probably play a bunch of different shafts and never notice the difference.

 

So the IO 6.0 would be overall softer than the 6.0 PX LZ as well? And out of curiosity, what does the PX IO profile look like? I read similar to the PX LS, but maybe a more active tip section? Stiff handle, stiff mid, active tip?



IO takes over for PXI, and IO came after i retired, so i have no first hand experience with it like i have with PXI

If you know how a SET of shafts looks like as EI profile, and have that in mind when we compare standard PX with PXI, we get to see the same profile, only as a way softer shaft, or like it was "soft-stepped a few times", but without moving bending points.

Standard PX vs PXI as EI profile

image.jpeg.6fa7fb05d250ce8431fb91e9c8495d05.jpeg


Here is how a SET of shafts looks like (not PX but you get the picture)
image.jpeg.af021ad5c69cc9f445359ef21a96875c.jpeg

So, PXI/IO is simply a softer shaft over all, like it was the standard PX soft stepped a few times, but with the "signature PX profile" intact.

 

Edited by Howard_Jones
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