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Iron length phobia !!! Help me figure this out


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Normal height, 5 11 .  Just ordered and received the 245 irons with graphite shafts.   I’ve learned to order clubs over length so that I can trim

to desired lengths rather then take a chance on a build that is too short or subject to a manufacturers build that is not exact.   I usually play irons at least plus 1/4 but these were ordered at plus 3/4 with grips loose in box.  However I’ve learned mizuno will install grips even with special instructions not to.   So,  I’ve hit the irons several times at plus 3/4 and surprisingly hit them quite well.  But the swingweight is so high d6 and despite choking down I know I’ve got to take some length off.  I hate a club that “feels” short so I’m hesitant to pull the trigger on any changes.   Any advice other then counselling to get these new clubs trimmed.   My gut tells me to take a small increment at a time (say ) 1/4 then give ‘em a try.   I know 1/4 will not have much effect on swingweight but what am I losing in playing irons that are simply too long?   

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Have you confirmed that they really are +3/4 in comparison to whatever measuring method and standard you prefer?

 

If so, taking 1/4" off would be in the middle of what you normally use and where they currently are.  So not too short.  Swing-weight should go down just below D5

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Those clubs seem too long to me.  I'd trim them down a little.  1/4" would be a fine start.  The grips may not come off clean, though, so be prepared for that.

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You only give your height info, which doesn't tell all, but guessing at 3/4+, it's a fair bit long for you. I would use the tape mark method on the grip to test and help determine your ideal length and what the swing weight will look like. Then, pull grips and trim to length along with any swingweight change. It would give a closer target for shaft length on first shot, instead of going back several times with the arbitrary 1/4" reduction. 

 

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Posted (edited)

This is where it is helpful to blow grips on and off to experiment with adding counterbalance weights under the butt end of the grip.

Counterbalancing may give you the feel you want without having to shorten the lengths.

I bought some cheap weights made by Hireko from Amazon.

Once you find something you like you can use grip tape to hold the grips firmly in place if that is what you desire.

Edited by ShortGolfer
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Also, be aware that many manufacturers will build their irons with graphite shaft +1/2" as standard, so they may be +1-1/4" from their stock steel shaft length.

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11 minutes ago, Ger21 said:

Also, be aware that many manufacturers will build their irons with graphite shaft +1/2" as standard, so they may be +1-1/4" from their stock steel shaft length.

FWIW, my hot metals with custom graphite shafts were ordered as "standard" length and they came at the normal length, same as steel shafted Hot Metals. So apparently Mizuno is not one of those brands to which you refer.

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, North Butte said:

FWIW, my hot metals with custom graphite shafts were ordered as "standard" length and they came at the normal length, same as steel shafted Hot Metals. So apparently Mizuno is not one of those brands to which you refer.

 

FWIW, that's actually true for most of the major OEM's, the practice has largely been discontinued for several years now.   As someone who exclusively plays graphite shafts in irons, it's something I've paid close attention to - at least for the brands and models I'm interested in trying.

 

But just now did a quick check of at least one random iron from each company:

TM P790's - same length

Callaway Paradym AI smoke - same length

Titleist all T series - same length

Ping G430 - same length

Cobra Darkspeed - same length

Mizuno JPX Tour - same length

 

 

Now, that doesn't mean there might not be a few hold outs - so it's always a good idea to check the published specs of the specific brand and model you're looking at.

 

 

10 hours ago, quine said:

Any advice other then counselling to get these new clubs trimmed.   My gut tells me to take a small increment at a time (say ) 1/4 then give ‘em a try.   I know 1/4 will not have much effect on swingweight but what am I losing in playing irons that are simply too long?   

 

Since it's really a subjective feel or visual thing for you, I don't think anyone else is going to be able to help you out much.    But - I will say a few things:

 

1) I would think that simply choking up should sufficient to give you an idea of how a certain length feels and looks at address - which is what seems to be the source of your problems.  So you shouldn't have to cut them down 1/4" at a time to figure it out.

 

2) Too short is usually much more of a problem in the shortest irons than the longer ones - so I would think that you could go right down to the standard length in all but the shorter irons in the set. 

 

3) There is nothing magic about maintaining the 1/2" length increment once you get to the shortest length you are comfortable in playing.   So you can play all the longer clubs at their standard length.   You just might need to tweak the lofts to even out the distance gaps.

 

4) Too long - as long as the swing weight is managed properly - too long generally results in a drop in consistency and accuracy of the delivery.  How much of a drop for any given length is something you'll have to test out for yourself.  Everyone is different.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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Thanks, really appreciate the responses.   A couple of things .   I’m leaning towards a 1/4 inch trim and using a slightly heavier grip. This may knock off one sw point    The shaft weight is in the 80 gram category so even at d5/d6 it’s not like I’ve got a dynamic gold swingweighting that high.  I need to remember that and not let it get into my head so much.   I guess if I have to,  I prefer a heavier sw then an abnormally low one.  Right??    I did email a friend at mizuno (Canada) who said they no longer use b weighted heads .  Super appreciative of advice . Thank you 

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I'm so confused. There are so many confounding variables with this. I think ordering the wrong specs is causing more issues than it solves. Here is what I would do.

  1. Get fit for the exact specifications you need and/or want in your irons.
  2. Place a custom order through a reputable shop.
  3. Have the shop verify the specifications of clubs upon delivery.
  4. If you are a club builder, double check the build once you get the clubs.

The problem is now you have guaranteed an incorrect build instead of taking a chance on one. I'm not saying they get it right 100% of the time, but this does not seem like an effective way to custom order golf clubs. It seems more intelligent to spec the right clubs first, and then return them if they do not measure to the correct spec.

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11 hours ago, quine said:

Normal height, 5 11 .  Just ordered and received the 245 irons with graphite shafts.   I’ve learned to order clubs over length so that I can trim

to desired lengths rather then take a chance on a build that is too short or subject to a manufacturers build that is not exact.   I usually play irons at least plus 1/4 but these were ordered at plus 3/4 with grips loose in box.  However I’ve learned mizuno will install grips even with special instructions not to.   So,  I’ve hit the irons several times at plus 3/4 and surprisingly hit them quite well.  But the swingweight is so high d6 and despite choking down I know I’ve got to take some length off.  I hate a club that “feels” short so I’m hesitant to pull the trigger on any changes.   Any advice other then counselling to get these new clubs trimmed.   My gut tells me to take a small increment at a time (say ) 1/4 then give ‘em a try.   I know 1/4 will not have much effect on swingweight but what am I losing in playing irons that are simply too long?   

What was Mizuno's response to their not following the special instructions to not install the grips? Since it was their mistake, would they supply you, at no charge, replacement grips? Just a thought.

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Cleveland CBX 56° Full Face, Project X Catalyst 80 R

Evnroll ER10 34" Winn ProX 1.18 grip

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9 minutes ago, quine said:

I have been told that even if requested mizuno will not send grips loose.  Apparently this is to combat people ordering the most expensive no up charge grip eg. multi compound  and then selling those  or swapping for a cheaper grip 

Hmm, not disputing what you were told, but seems strange Mizuno would be so concerned with someone selling  grip(s),that I imagine would already be built into the cost of the club(s). I guess I will find out shortly as I have a set of irons coming to which I ordered grips loose and DD didn't mention any issue with doing so.🤷‍♂️

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Yes, in special instructions section of our build, from golftown ( in Canada) we asked specifically for grips loose in box.   However I was told at time of ordering from

golftown sales rep that he was sure they wouldn’t comply with this request .   I agree, I don’t know why if you pay for something you couldn’t get as requested.  

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5 minutes ago, quine said:

Yes, in special instructions section of our build, from golftown ( in Canada) we asked specifically for grips loose in box.   However I was told at time of ordering from

golftown sales rep that he was sure they wouldn’t comply with this request .   I agree, I don’t know why if you pay for something you couldn’t get as requested.  

Are the grips at least put on correctly? I've been reading horror stories of sloppy grip installs from Mizuno. That is the reason why I requested loose.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, quine said:

Thanks, really appreciate the responses.   A couple of things .   I’m leaning towards a 1/4 inch trim and using a slightly heavier grip. This may knock off one sw point    The shaft weight is in the 80 gram category so even at d5/d6 it’s not like I’ve got a dynamic gold swingweighting that high.  I need to remember that and not let it get into my head so much.   I guess if I have to,  I prefer a heavier sw then an abnormally low one.  Right??    I did email a friend at mizuno (Canada) who said they no longer use b weighted heads .  Super appreciative of advice . Thank you 

Keep in mind many manufacturers (and custom club builders/companies) measure their clubs differently. Along with differing measuring techniques, some measure from top of grip cap and others don’t include grip cap in their length specs. So your +3/4” might really be +1/2”, or possibly +1”, in comparison to other manufacturers. Idk how Mizuno measures, I’m sure they state it somewhere. Just something to keep in mind.

 

And when you choke down you’re effectively reducing the swing-weight and counterbalancing in some sense

Edited by mjo23

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, mjo23 said:

Idk how Mizuno measures, I’m sure they state it somewhere.

 

If the link in this to the Mizuno site is correct, it looks like it will be 3/8" longer than clubs of the same spec from companies that measure to the ground plane.   Unless maybe that reference is specific to clubs built for their Japanese customers (not uncommon for Japanese customers to be dealt with differently in many aspect of club specs).   Others in the thread seem to think the specs are accurate to the ground plane and not 3/8" longer.

 

So take your pick on what to believe 🤔

 

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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10 hours ago, quine said:

Thanks, really appreciate the responses.   A couple of things .   I’m leaning towards a 1/4 inch trim and using a slightly heavier grip. This may knock off one sw point    The shaft weight is in the 80 gram category so even at d5/d6 it’s not like I’ve got a dynamic gold swingweighting that high.  I need to remember that and not let it get into my head so much.   I guess if I have to,  I prefer a heavier sw then an abnormally low one.  Right??    I did email a friend at mizuno (Canada) who said they no longer use b weighted heads .  Super appreciative of advice . Thank you 

 

Don't worry about what grip weight does to the swing-weight scale.  You're better off choosing the best grip for your hands and how you grip the club, regardless of it's weight

 

 

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Consider keeping the shorter irons longer ,, trim less there 

 

I like swingweights progressing thru a set, ymmv 

 

for example, leave your pw at d6, 9 at d5, 8 at d4, 5 thru 7 at d3 ….

 

what are your GW and SW and LW swingweights ?  D7 would be perfect 

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9 hours ago, quine said:

Yes, in special instructions section of our build, from golftown ( in Canada) we asked specifically for grips loose in box.   However I was told at time of ordering from

golftown sales rep that he was sure they wouldn’t comply with this request .   I agree, I don’t know why if you pay for something you couldn’t get as requested.  

 

They only do this for Golf Pride. I was told by our regional rep (in Canada as well FWIW) that this is 100% a GP issue and other grip companies are fine to order loose. The shop I work for orders Lamkin grips from Mizuno loose all the time with no issues.

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This forum is amazing because of its members taking the time to comment, help, advise  and genuinely try to help each other.  I really appreciate it! Thanks !! Going to reread all of the comments, summarize and take what works best for my somewhat       Indecisive personality (at times).  Feel a lot better about how to move forward !! 

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