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Z-Star Diamond almost a 1/2 club shorter than ProV1?


Mike412

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Is there anyone who has played both that can confirm this? According the MGS ball test the Diamond is about 3 yards shorter than a ProV1 with a mid iron at a “mid” swing speed. That’s getting close to a half a club. I know that isn’t much but I need to squeeze all the distance I can out of the irons and everything else about the ball fits what I’m looking for. Yes, I know I’m over thinking this but I am a WRXer. Any input is appreciated.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mike412 said:

Is there anyone who has played both that can confirm this? According the MGS ball test the Diamond is about 3 yards shorter than a ProV1 with a mid iron at a “mid” swing speed. That’s getting close to a half a club. I know that isn’t much but I need to squeeze all the distance I can out of the irons and everything else about the ball fits what I’m looking for. Yes, I know I’m over thinking this but I am a WRXer. Any input is appreciated.

 

 

IMG_1057.jpeg

3yds is about 1/4 club at that speed, but it makes sense since the diamond spins more and has a higher peak height than V1. 9 ft less distance with more stopping power could be very good for some players but bad for others. 

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52 minutes ago, grochol17 said:

The MGS testing is a good place to get info like ball speed and spin rates and do some general comparisons between balls, but beyond that, unless your launch conditions exactly match that of the robot used in the testing, you have to be careful about how much you read into their numbers.  For example, if they set up their testing with a high launch or maybe they were playing into a bit of a breeze, then the higher spin diamond is going to come up shorter than the V1 because the spin would be hurting in that test.  But, if you're someone that needs the help of the ~400 rpms more spin, then you might hit the diamond further. 

 

If you're looking for a new balls, I'd suggest checking out the Ping ballnamic.  They did all of their testing outdoors, so they could track the whole flight, but they made sure weather conditions were the same for their entire testing.  The models they built from that data goes into helping you pick which ball best fits your preferences. 

 

For what it is worth, one of my runs with the ballnamic gave me both the Pro V1 and Z Star XV as possible options.  The iron distance of the two was 0.1 y apart from each other.  So, for my launch conditions (high launch, high spin), PING tells me they should travel the same distance even though MGS tells me the XV should be 3 yards shorter. 

Another VERY important aspect of Balnamic is that the data is collected during the total flight of the ball, and not just using a radar algorithm. So it’s a truer reflection on a ball’s performance.

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37 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Even if we take the MGS stuff at face value w.r.t. launch condition choice, techniques for assuring consistent measurement, etc. their margin for error on their estimates of distance are at least plus or minus a couple yards. So what looks like "about 3 yards shorter", if they ran the exact same test tomorrow might turn out to be "about 5 yards shorter" or even "about 1 yard longer".

 

But even ignoring that, I can't imagine choosing one ball over another because I'm worried about losing 3 yards on every iron shot. That's trivial, all it would mean is taking the trouble to learn your distances with the new ball. Nobody's going to shoot better scores because their 7-iron number is 156 instead of 153. That's why we carry several irons in a set.


Thanks and I promise I get that, but if it’s true it means my 150 7i goes to 147 and I’m just not willing to do that however stupid it may seem.

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Yeah. Robot testing means nothing to mean. Hitting into a screen means nothing to me. 
On course testing with our own unique swings/divots/deliveries and tendencies under the “gun” of play can mean so much more. 
Diamond is an awesome ball. 
 

also enjoy the process. Don’t sweat the small stuff while “testing”

 

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11 minutes ago, Mike412 said:


Thanks and I promise I get that, but if it’s true it means my 150 7i goes to 147 and I’m just not willing to do that however stupid it may seem.

Even if it stops faster and closer to the hole? Also keep in mind depending on your launch conditions you might carry the Diamond further than pro v1. Remember the data mgs publishes is only at one launch condition. YMMV.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, grochol17 said:

The MGS testing is a good place to get info like ball speed and spin rates and do some general comparisons between balls, but beyond that, unless your launch conditions exactly match that of the robot used in the testing, you have to be careful about how much you read into their numbers.  For example, if they set up their testing with a high launch or maybe they were playing into a bit of a breeze, then the higher spin diamond is going to come up shorter than the V1 because the spin would be hurting in that test.  But, if you're someone that needs the help of the ~400 rpms more spin, then you might hit the diamond further. 

 

If you're looking for a new balls, I'd suggest checking out the Ping ballnamic.  They did all of their testing outdoors, so they could track the whole flight, but they made sure weather conditions were the same for their entire testing.  The models they built from that data goes into helping you pick which ball best fits your preferences. 

 

For what it is worth, one of my runs with the ballnamic gave me both the Pro V1 and Z Star XV as possible options.  The iron distance of the two was 0.1 y apart from each other.  So, for my launch conditions (high launch, high spin), PING tells me they should travel the same distance even though MGS tells me the XV should be 3 yards shorter. 


Is there any way to compare the balls I want to see with Ballnamic instead of just the ones it recommends? I really just want to compare the Diamond to the Maxfli Tour.

 

 

Edited by Mike412
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14 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Even if it stops faster and closer to the hole? Also keep in mind depending on your launch conditions you might carry the Diamond further than pro v1. Remember the data mgs publishes is only at one launch condition. YMMV.


True about launch conditions….. Distance is just more important to me right now. I understand it doesn’t make sense but it is what it is.

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44 minutes ago, Mike412 said:


Is there any way to compare the balls I want to see with Ballnamic instead of just the ones it recommends? I really just want to compare the Diamond to the Maxfli Tour.

 

 

Like @North Buttesaid, you'll probably have to do two runs of ballnamic with everything the same except listing the diamond as your current ball for one run and maxfli tour as your ball for the other.  You could try to game the system by saying your ball is the maxfli and then guessing at things that you think will give you the diamond... like saying you want lots of stopping power with your irons since the diamond is designed to have high iron spin.  No guarantee that will work, though.

 

What is your end goal in all of this?  I you tell us all what you're playing now and what's wrong with that ball or what you're looking to change, we might be able to help you out.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, grochol17 said:

Like @North Buttesaid, you'll probably have to do two runs of ballnamic with everything the same except listing the diamond as your current ball for one run and maxfli tour as your ball for the other.  You could try to game the system by saying your ball is the maxfli and then guessing at things that you think will give you the diamond... like saying you want lots of stopping power with your irons since the diamond is designed to have high iron spin.  No guarantee that will work, though.

 

What is your end goal in all of this?  I you tell us all what you're playing now and what's wrong with that ball or what you're looking to change, we might be able to help you out.


Honestly I’m just considering the Diamond because of the Srixon B2G1 on right now. I gamed the Z-Star for a while and liked it but it was short. I’m currently playing the Maxfli Tour. I’ve had a fitter tell me I fit best into a ProV1x type ball. If anything I’m looking to squeeze a little more out of my driver but I’m not willing to give up anything on the irons distance wise. I’m steep and fight an out to in swing but when I’m focused I can get neutral or slightly in to out. I’m not a high spin player but I can stop them pretty well and irons are my strength. I can spin them fine around the green as well but I could easily adjust to more spin with irons and wedges. I’m struggling a little right now distance wise. I went from hitting a 7i 158-160 to barely covering 150 but still fairly accurate. I’m 39 and haven’t lost speed but I just can’t find that old swing atm. I can’t say on trajectory, if anything I’d say I skew a little low with irons and a decent trajectory with driver. Driver has always been a little short for me because of the out to in/ott I mentioned before.
 

I play the Tour because imo those are more consistent manufacturing wise than the Tour X. Now that probably doesn’t matter one bit to my game since I’m about a 13 (10 when my distance was up) handicap but it’s in my head so that is just that haha.

 

I’m using the MGS test because I can plot all the balls I’m interested in and compare. I really wish Ballnamic would allow that. But that’s all it is just trying to see if the Diamond would be better than what I have in some areas while not costing me any iron distance.

 

FYI: I keep saying longer Driver without losing distance with irons because the MGS test shows that the while the Diamond is shorter in the mid irons it is longer with the driver. That’s my only source on that.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike412
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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Mike412 said:


Honestly I’m just considering the Diamond because of the Srixon B2G1 on right now. I gamed the Z-Star for a while and liked it but it was short. I’m currently playing the Maxfli Tour. I’ve had a fitter tell me I fit best into a ProV1x type ball. If anything I’m looking to squeeze a little more out of my driver but I’m not willing to give up anything on the irons distance wise. I’m steep and fight an out to in swing but when I’m focused I can get neutral or slightly in to out. I’m not a high spin player but I can stop them pretty well and irons are my strength. I can spin them fine around the green as well but I could easily adjust to more spin with irons and wedges. I’m struggling a little right now distance wise. I went from hitting a 7i 158-160 to barely covering 150 but still fairly accurate. I’m 39 and haven’t lost speed but I just can’t find that old swing atm. I can’t say on trajectory, if anything I’d say I skew a little low with irons and a decent trajectory with driver. Driver has always been a little short for me because of the out to in/ott I mentioned before.
 

I play the Tour because imo those are more consistent manufacturing wise than the Tour X. Now that probably doesn’t matter one bit to my game since I’m about a 13 (10 when my distance was up) handicap but it’s in my head so that is just that haha.

 

I’m using the MGS test because I can plot all the balls I’m interested in and compare. I really wish Ballnamic would allow that. But that’s all it is just trying to see if the Diamond would be better than what I have in some areas while not costing me any iron distance.

 

FYI: I keep saying longer Driver without losing distance with irons because the MGS test shows that the while the Diamond is shorter in the mid irons it is longer with the driver. That’s my only source on that.

 

 

 

 

As it happens, one of my latest ballnamic fittings had those exact two balls as my 4th/5th options.   Here are screenshots of the comparison with my numbers, but you can extrapolate.  These are also at 5000 ft because I live and play in Colorado, just an FYI. 

 

Screenshot_20240524_185250_Chrome.jpg.ab701b268ea1eb13263585c4a6d9d599.jpgScreenshot_20240524_185259_Chrome.jpg.55c219c780ef4aa76898adfefd411e8c.jpgScreenshot_20240524_185306_Chrome.jpg.fc125f04aff92c60c8349e3e47ca4488.jpg

Edited by runningblind11
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Diamond was 8 yards shorter with irons for me compared to lower spinning urethane balls for me.  10 yards shorter with driver.  I'm a high spin player though.  Diamond works best for players that need the spin and height which is usually slower swingers. 

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24 minutes ago, runningblind11 said:

As it happens, one of my latest ballnamic fittings had those exact two balls as my 4th/5th options.   Here are screenshots of the comparison with my numbers, but you can extrapolate.  These are also at 5000 ft because I live and play in Colorado, just an FYI. 

 

Screenshot_20240524_185250_Chrome.jpg.ab701b268ea1eb13263585c4a6d9d599.jpgScreenshot_20240524_185259_Chrome.jpg.55c219c780ef4aa76898adfefd411e8c.jpgScreenshot_20240524_185306_Chrome.jpg.fc125f04aff92c60c8349e3e47ca4488.jpg


Very helpful, thank you! Looks like they’re within a yard of each other with a 7i. I’m about 600’ but I wouldn’t think that would change too much comparison wise. Looks like you’re significantly faster than me but where would you consider yourself spin wise?

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Mike412 said:


Very helpful, thank you! Looks like they’re within a yard of each other with a 7i. I’m about 600’ but I wouldn’t think that would change too much comparison wise. Looks like you’re significantly faster than me but where would you consider yourself spin wise?

I float around 2700 with the driver, and 5400 with a 6 on good strikes.  These numbers are at those values.

Edited by runningblind11
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17 hours ago, Mike412 said:


Honestly I’m just considering the Diamond because of the Srixon B2G1 on right now. I gamed the Z-Star for a while and liked it but it was short. I’m currently playing the Maxfli Tour. I’ve had a fitter tell me I fit best into a ProV1x type ball. If anything I’m looking to squeeze a little more out of my driver but I’m not willing to give up anything on the irons distance wise. I’m steep and fight an out to in swing but when I’m focused I can get neutral or slightly in to out. I’m not a high spin player but I can stop them pretty well and irons are my strength. I can spin them fine around the green as well but I could easily adjust to more spin with irons and wedges. I’m struggling a little right now distance wise. I went from hitting a 7i 158-160 to barely covering 150 but still fairly accurate. I’m 39 and haven’t lost speed but I just can’t find that old swing atm. I can’t say on trajectory, if anything I’d say I skew a little low with irons and a decent trajectory with driver. Driver has always been a little short for me because of the out to in/ott I mentioned before.
 

I play the Tour because imo those are more consistent manufacturing wise than the Tour X. Now that probably doesn’t matter one bit to my game since I’m about a 13 (10 when my distance was up) handicap but it’s in my head so that is just that haha.

 

I’m using the MGS test because I can plot all the balls I’m interested in and compare. I really wish Ballnamic would allow that. But that’s all it is just trying to see if the Diamond would be better than what I have in some areas while not costing me any iron distance.

 

FYI: I keep saying longer Driver without losing distance with irons because the MGS test shows that the while the Diamond is shorter in the mid irons it is longer with the driver. That’s my only source on that.

 

 

 

 

The Diamond is definitely longer off the driver than the regular Z Star. 

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17 hours ago, runningblind11 said:

As it happens, one of my latest ballnamic fittings had those exact two balls as my 4th/5th options.   Here are screenshots of the comparison with my numbers, but you can extrapolate.  These are also at 5000 ft because I live and play in Colorado, just an FYI. 

 

Screenshot_20240524_185250_Chrome.jpg.ab701b268ea1eb13263585c4a6d9d599.jpgScreenshot_20240524_185259_Chrome.jpg.55c219c780ef4aa76898adfefd411e8c.jpgScreenshot_20240524_185306_Chrome.jpg.fc125f04aff92c60c8349e3e47ca4488.jpg

Curious what the top options were?

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2 minutes ago, runningblind11 said:

ProV1x was a 98% match, and the Tour B X was a 97% match in second.  The other recommendation was the LA Golf ball.

It's funny, my launch conditions could hardly be more different than yours (for instance 71mph and 4200 spin for a 7-iron, yikes!) but I got almost the same recommendations, although with different percentages. 

 

I told it Pro V1x was my current ball and got 86.6%.

 

Its suggestions for me were:

Tour B X in 4th at 91.3%

LA Golf is 3rd at 91.4%

Maxfli Tour in 2nd at 91.5%

Wilson Staff Model at 92.6%

 

So two opposite ends of the spectrum player-wise but except for Diamond vs. Wilson Staff, the same balls. Fascinating. 

 

FWIW, I've long felt that the two balls I can sub in for Pro V1x with almost no adjustment time were Tour B X and Pro V1. 

 

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2 minutes ago, North Butte said:

It's funny, my launch conditions could hardly be more different than yours (for instance 71mph and 4200 spin for a 7-iron, yikes!) but I got almost the same recommendations, although with different percentages. 

 

I told it Pro V1x was my current ball and got 86.6%.

 

Its suggestions for me were:

Tour B X in 4th at 91.3%

LA Golf is 3rd at 91.4%

Maxfli Tour in 2nd at 91.5%

Wilson Staff Model at 92.6%

 

So two opposite ends of the spectrum player-wise but except for Diamond vs. Wilson Staff, the same balls. Fascinating. 

 

FWIW, I've long felt that the two balls I can sub in for Pro V1x with almost no adjustment time were Tour B X and Pro V1. 

 

It is fascinating.  Just goes to show you can’t go by things like swing speed alone, and lots of different golfers can benefit from balls they might not normally play. 

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1 hour ago, hammergolf said:

The Diamond is definitely longer off the driver than the regular Z Star. 

I'm a Srixon guy, but they need to re-work that ball next release.  Not sure how much market there is anymore for a ball that soft and spinny.

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40 minutes ago, Choclab said:

I'm a Srixon guy, but they need to re-work that ball next release.  Not sure how much market there is anymore for a ball that soft and spinny.

Yeah I would think the overwhelming majority of their tour staff either play the XV or Diamond.

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I play the Diamond and hit 7-iron similar distance to OP (150). No idea my swing speed. Switched to the Diamond from original z-star because I needed more mid to long iron spin when I moved to zx4 mkii irons last year. I’ve played ProV1s on occasion and ProV1x’s gifted to me at Xmas. Neither longer off irons that I could tell, though Prov1x feel firmer to me. Diamond stopping power off mid/long irons is second to none for me.

Some people find the extra spin hurts them (spinning balls off the green), but it is exactly what I need. ProV1 seemed to roll out more from pitch mark. Prov1x seemed more similar to diamond off mid irons, but I like Diamond better around greens. Just bought 3 more boxes in the sale. So should be good for rest of the season at least. Love the ball. 

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I just posted something about the three Srixon models, three Titleist, and three Maxfli models.  I think I fall into the higher swing speed, also I am not a robot, but the Diamond and Tour X are similar in distance, the Diamond is higher spin for me on a 7 iron, by about 400RPM's.  It is also longer than the Tour X for me by about 2-3 yards.

 

The Diamond is my unicorn ball.  It is higher spin, especially off of the irons, but loses no distance, and into the wind I can flight it down and take spin off.  The Tour X is OK at my club(super hard Bermuda Greens) but not quite as good.  I play it in the winter since it's cheaper and I worry less about losing them to leaves or plugging in a few wet spots around my course.

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8 minutes ago, driveandputtmachine said:

I just posted something about the three Srixon models, three Titleist, and three Maxfli models.  I think I fall into the higher swing speed, also I am not a robot, but the Diamond and Tour X are similar in distance, the Diamond is higher spin for me on a 7 iron, by about 400RPM's.  It is also longer than the Tour X for me by about 2-3 yards.

 

The Diamond is my unicorn ball.  It is higher spin, especially off of the irons, but loses no distance, and into the wind I can flight it down and take spin off.  The Tour X is OK at my club(super hard Bermuda Greens) but not quite as good.  I play it in the winter since it's cheaper and I worry less about losing them to leaves or plugging in a few wet spots around my course.

What is your swing speed?  I am curious ProV1x vs Diamond with driver distance wise, and in windy conditions.  The ProV1x fits me, but the diamond is so much cheaper and was a decent ballnamic fit also. 

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My speed hovers between 112-116 with the driver.  Not super speed but not slow either.  I have played on decently windy days and not had a major issue.  The dimple pattern seems to do pretty good in the wind, not as good as Bridgestone's(which I think is bar none the best as far as stability in the wind) but just as good or better as any Titleist I have played.

 

If you are already super spinny with your driver, then it may not be a great fit.  I was 23-2500, I think last I checked with the Diamond and my Ping G400 10k turned down a tick I am 2400-2600.

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On 5/24/2024 at 12:55 PM, Mike412 said:

Is there anyone who has played both that can confirm this? According the MGS ball test the Diamond is about 3 yards shorter than a ProV1 with a mid iron at a “mid” swing speed. That’s getting close to a half a club. I know that isn’t much but I need to squeeze all the distance I can out of the irons and everything else about the ball fits what I’m looking for. Yes, I know I’m over thinking this but I am a WRXer. Any input is appreciated.

 

 

IMG_1057.jpeg

Personally I’d take the extra spin and height- the stopping power is worth more than the 3yds- you could be more aggressive to a tucked pin.  It’ll help even more with a mid -lower iron.

Flash

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      Jackson Buchanan - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Carter Jenkins - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Parker Bell - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Omar Morales - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Neil Shipley - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Casey Jarvis - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Carson Schaake - WITB - 2024 US Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       

      Tiger Woods on the range at Pinehurst on Monday – 2024 U.S. Open
      Newton Motion shaft - 2024 US Open
      Cameron putter covers - 2024 US Open
      New UST Mamiya Linq shaft - 2024 US Open

       

       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 5 replies
    • Titleist GT drivers - 2024 the Memorial Tournament
      Early in hand photos of the new GT2 models t the truck.  As soon as they show up on the range in player's bags we'll get some better from the top photos and hopefully some comparison photos against the last model.
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 282 replies
    • 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Monday #1
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #1
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #2
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Keith Mitchell - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Rafa Campos - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      R Squared - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Martin Laird - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Paul Haley - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Tyler Duncan - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Min Woo Lee - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Austin Smotherman - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Lee Hodges - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Eric Cole's newest custom Cameron putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      New Super Stroke Marvel comic themed grips - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Ben Taylor's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Tyler Duncan's Axis 1 putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cameron putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Chris Kirk's new Callaway Opus wedges - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      ProTC irons - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Dragon Skin 360 grips - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cobra prototype putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      SeeMore putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 0 replies
    • 2024 PGA Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put  any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 PGA Championship - Monday #1
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Michael Block - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Patrick Reed - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cam Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Brooks Koepka - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Josh Speight - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Takumi Kanaya - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kyle Mendoza - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Adrian Meronk - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jordan Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jeremy Wells - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jared Jones - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      John Somers - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Larkin Gross - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Tracy Phillips - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jon Rahm - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Keita Nakajima - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kazuma Kobori - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      David Puig - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Ryan Van Velzen - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ping putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Bettinardi covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cameron putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Max Homa - Titleist 2 wood - 2024 PGA Championship
      Scotty Cameron experimental putter shaft by UST - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
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