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Is my epoxy going to fail?


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Posted (edited)

I've been using the Golfworks Tour set Epoxy recently vs. the 24 hour epoxy.  I like the faster cure time vs. waiting 24 hours.  I've been doing smaller jobs, one or two clubs so I haven't been mixing a lot.  I've noticed lately with the smaller portions, It doesn't appear to be setting as well.  I really try to mix 1:1 and I feel I am but the syringe is so hard to push evenly sometimes.  

 

My most recent adapter I installed, I ended up playing with the club 6 hours later and it was fine however when I checked the epoxy this morning.  It was firm yet soft.  I could dent it with my finder nail and when I ripped it off the cardboard, It was flexible, not hard and brittle like I expected.  I've used the club already with fine results, but will this epoxy fail eventually?  

 

One side note.  I did put the epoxy outside in the sunlight.  It was in direct sun and about 70 degrees out.  I noticed after about a half hour the epoxy looked very matte instead of glossy.  Not sure if this did anything or just exposed it was still a bad mix.  

Edited by quizzylish

Driver: Ping G410 LST, 9 degree, VA Composites Raijin Black 65 X

3 Wood: Sim Tour Issue, 14.5 degree, VA Composites Synystr 75 X

Utility: Ping iCrossover 3 iron, GD 95X 

Irons: Srixon ZX5/ZX7 Combo, TT X100

Wedges: Vokey 54/58, S300

Putter:  Lajosi, Bellum Winnmore, or Scotty 5.5......We'll see who wins!! 

Ball: Titleist ProV1

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33 minutes ago, quizzylish said:

I've been using the Golfworks Tour set Epoxy recently vs. the 24 hour epoxy.  I like the faster cure time vs. waiting 24 hours.  I've been doing smaller jobs, one or two clubs so I haven't been mixing a lot.  I've noticed lately with the smaller portions, It doesn't appear to be setting as well.  I really try to mix 1:1 and I feel I am but the syringe is so hard to push evenly sometimes.  

 

My most recent adapter I installed, I ended up playing with the club 6 hours later and it was fine however when I checked the epoxy this morning.  It was firm yet soft.  I could dent it with my finder nail and when I ripped it off the cardboard, It was flexible, not hard and brittle like I expected.  I've used the club already with fine results, but will this epoxy fail eventually?  

 

One side note.  I did put the epoxy outside in the sunlight.  It was in direct sun and about 70 degrees out.  I noticed after about a half hour the epoxy looked very matte instead of glossy.  Not sure if this did anything or just exposed it was still a bad mix.  

Nothing seems unusual about the cure. Golf shafting epoxies always cure a little "stickier" than most hardware store 2-part epoxies and that's OK. I'm not an epoxy expert but I believe that brittle epoxies tend to have lower lap shear strengths, which is the opposite of what makes a good golf shafting epoxy.

 

The most important determining factor is going to be the quality of the prep work in the hosel and the shaft tip. The strength of the bond drops off exponentially if the bonding surfaces aren't ideal.

 

With that being said, I use the high-impact epoxy from golfworks even though it has a 24hr cure time. I only use 15min epoxies for putters or shaft extensions, but it's personal preference. The high-impact epoxy is overkill but gives me peace of mind.

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The Tour Set epoxy has many, many threads about failures.  Some guys use it.  Most hate it.  Will yours fail?  The odds are not in your favor.

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51 minutes ago, Socrates said:

The Tour Set epoxy has many, many threads about failures.  Some guys use it.  Most hate it.  Will yours fail?  The odds are not in your favor.

So do you recommend the Golfworks 24 hour epoxy?  

Driver: Ping G410 LST, 9 degree, VA Composites Raijin Black 65 X

3 Wood: Sim Tour Issue, 14.5 degree, VA Composites Synystr 75 X

Utility: Ping iCrossover 3 iron, GD 95X 

Irons: Srixon ZX5/ZX7 Combo, TT X100

Wedges: Vokey 54/58, S300

Putter:  Lajosi, Bellum Winnmore, or Scotty 5.5......We'll see who wins!! 

Ball: Titleist ProV1

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I have had failures with the Golfwork tour sets, they dont seem to adhere to metal shafts as well as the 24 hour version.  I have used Golfworks and Brampton long cure and although I hate the wait, I do have peace of mind that it has never failed me....Usually when u add too much hardener, the epoxy will be more brittle and when u use too little hardener, the epoxy will be softer.

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1 hour ago, quizzylish said:

I've been using the Golfworks Tour set Epoxy recently vs. the 24 hour epoxy.  I like the faster cure time vs. waiting 24 hours.  I've been doing smaller jobs, one or two clubs so I haven't been mixing a lot.  I've noticed lately with the smaller portions, It doesn't appear to be setting as well.  I really try to mix 1:1 and I feel I am but the syringe is so hard to push evenly sometimes.  

 

My most recent adapter I installed, I ended up playing with the club 6 hours later and it was fine however when I checked the epoxy this morning.  It was firm yet soft.  I could dent it with my finder nail and when I ripped it off the cardboard, It was flexible, not hard and brittle like I expected.  I've used the club already with fine results, but will this epoxy fail eventually?  

 

One side note.  I did put the epoxy outside in the sunlight.  It was in direct sun and about 70 degrees out.  I noticed after about a half hour the epoxy looked very matte instead of glossy.  Not sure if this did anything or just exposed it was still a bad mix.  

As I am prepping the club, I fill a small plastic container with hot water from the tap, and sit my Tour Set epoxy in the container. My stuff is in the basement, and it doesn't get much above 60* down there in the winter. The stuff wouldn't come out of the tube otherwise.

I've never had a failure with the quick cure, but I also wait overnight before using the club.

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32 minutes ago, Socrates said:

This is what I have used for the last 10+ years.

vb1001__35894.1676061826.jpg?c=1

Opinions on Brampton's 24-hour epoxy in comparison?  I've had some failures with the faster-setting stuff too (non-Brampton), and the whole experience is tempting me very strongly to just get the 3M gun and 816 or whatever that's always mentioned here, and be done with it.

 

I'd thought I'd roughed up the hosel and shaft surfaces adequately, then cleaned rigorously.  Guess not.  Nothing like seeing your iron-head sailing peacefully downrange...then very humbly asking the staff if the ballpicker could go and retrieve it for you.  Definitely do not want a repeat.

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1 hour ago, rsballer10 said:

Golf shafting epoxies always cure a little "stickier" than most hardware store 2-part epoxies and that's OK.

 

Interesting.  Definitely not true with the Golfsmith 24 hr epoxy I've been using.   But I haven't used anything else for a long time now.

 

Maybe I should get a small batch of the golfworks to test. 🤔

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Interesting.  Definitely not true with the Golfsmith 24 hr epoxy I've been using.   But I haven't used anything else for a long time now.

 

Maybe I should get a small batch of the golfworks to test. 🤔

The golfworks epoxies have been that way for me. 

Edited by rsballer10

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34 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Opinions on Brampton's 24-hour epoxy in comparison?  I've had some failures with the faster-setting stuff too (non-Brampton), and the whole experience is tempting me very strongly to just get the 3M gun and 816 or whatever that's always mentioned here, and be done with it.

 

I'd thought I'd roughed up the hosel and shaft surfaces adequately, then cleaned rigorously.  Guess not.  Nothing like seeing your iron-head sailing peacefully downrange...then very humbly asking the staff if the ballpicker could go and retrieve it for you.  Definitely do not want a repeat.

I have used some Brampton's in the past.  It was okay.  Didn't use it long enough to give an opinion.  The only epoxy I didn't like as the 3M DP810.  Just me.

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Get the bottles....should not be an issue with equal amounts.  Can't get it out of the bottle?  Place in microwave for 10 seconds!

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If you want faster set times but still looking for max strength, I use this.  Have never had an issue.  According to Golfworks its formulated to match 3M epoxy.

 

I've always avoided the regular Tour Set because of all the stories of failure.  

 

Screenshot_20240529_163445_Chrome.jpg.2814c9e6be85e37a86c85aca02605700.jpg

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3 hours ago, jblough99 said:

If you want faster set times but still looking for max strength, I use this.  Have never had an issue.  According to Golfworks its formulated to match 3M epoxy.

 

I've always avoided the regular Tour Set because of all the stories of failure.  

 

Screenshot_20240529_163445_Chrome.jpg.2814c9e6be85e37a86c85aca02605700.jpg

Thanks!!  I just ordered some!!  

Driver: Ping G410 LST, 9 degree, VA Composites Raijin Black 65 X

3 Wood: Sim Tour Issue, 14.5 degree, VA Composites Synystr 75 X

Utility: Ping iCrossover 3 iron, GD 95X 

Irons: Srixon ZX5/ZX7 Combo, TT X100

Wedges: Vokey 54/58, S300

Putter:  Lajosi, Bellum Winnmore, or Scotty 5.5......We'll see who wins!! 

Ball: Titleist ProV1

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, quizzylish said:

I like the faster cure time vs. waiting 24 hours.  I've been doing smaller jobs, one or two clubs so I haven't been mixing a lot. 

 

7 hours ago, Socrates said:

This is what I have used for the last 10+ years.

vb1001__35894.1676061826.jpg?c=1

 

7 hours ago, rsballer10 said:

this is the stuff I use and it's bomb-proof


Agreed with the above. @quizzylish one of the absolute best things you can do if you want maximum strength + a shorter curing time is to use heat. IMO the concept of heat curing is objectively superior to using "fast cure" epoxies to the point said epoxies wouldn't even exist if heat curing was commonly understood/practiced. You get all the benefits of the (on average) higher strength of 24hr epoxies when compared to their faster curing counterparts plus the assurance that your epoxy is thoroughly cured. Many epoxies actually cure *stronger* with heat than they would otherwise, partially due to how thoroughly the epoxy cures. 

image.png.197ca75ee11b0e2a6bfeef6bb1ac4d57.png 

High heat guarantees you end up in the "solid" phase. I've stress tested this as well and have never had a failure when building a single club with 24hr epoxy, heat curing at 160* for 60min, then taking it straight to the driving range. 

Personally i'll never use a quick set/fast cure epoxy with this option available. 

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I use 24hr epoxy and heat cure it for 1 hr at 150*F with my heat gun (about 2.5' away). I made a drying chamber out of plywood which is nothing more than two sides and a back out of 1/2" 5" high. I place the clubs vertical and lay a piece of 1/8" over the top and slide it back against the shafts. I can play them in 2 hrs.

 

BT

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17 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I use 24hr epoxy and heat cure it for 1 hr at 150*F with my heat gun (about 2.5' away). I made a drying chamber out of plywood which is nothing more than two sides and a back out of 1/2" 5" high. I place the clubs vertical and lay a piece of 1/8" over the top and slide it back against the shafts. I can play them in 2 hrs.

 

BT

 

This right here.  Best of both worlds.  Reliable epoxy, and hit the club in 2 hours.  Please don't whine about having to build a box.  I use scrap lumber and just haphazardly stack cut-off boards around the clubs, with the hot air gun laying on the garage floor from a few feet away, blowing into an opening in the wood dam.  It's stupid easy to pull this off.

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40 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

This right here.  Best of both worlds.  Reliable epoxy, and hit the club in 2 hours.  Please don't whine about having to build a box.  I use scrap lumber and just haphazardly stack cut-off boards around the clubs, with the hot air gun laying on the garage floor from a few feet away, blowing into an opening in the wood dam.  It's stupid easy to pull this off.

I have everything I would need to give this a go. Just stack the clubs inside the box and give it some heat.  Sounds pretty simple.  

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3 Wood: Sim Tour Issue, 14.5 degree, VA Composites Synystr 75 X

Utility: Ping iCrossover 3 iron, GD 95X 

Irons: Srixon ZX5/ZX7 Combo, TT X100

Wedges: Vokey 54/58, S300

Putter:  Lajosi, Bellum Winnmore, or Scotty 5.5......We'll see who wins!! 

Ball: Titleist ProV1

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nessism said:

 

This right here.  Best of both worlds.  Reliable epoxy, and hit the club in 2 hours.  Please don't whine about having to build a box.  I use scrap lumber and just haphazardly stack cut-off boards around the clubs, with the hot air gun laying on the garage floor from a few feet away, blowing into an opening in the wood dam.  It's stupid easy to pull this off.

I appreciate all the responses and tips but I'm still wondering what to do with the current shaft adapter I glued up?  Do I pull it and restart or should I be okay since I have swung it aggressively several times and it seems fine, or will this fail over time?  

 

I've had two heads fly off in my playing career.  One driver and one 3 wood.  These were done by someone else, which honestly led me to start doing my own work.  The one 3 wood head was never found since it tumbled off straight ahead in the weeds and I'm pretty sure sank into a pond.  If no one has experienced this situation, it honestly is the strangest feeling to all of a sudden lose all that weight while performing a full swing.  

Edited by quizzylish

Driver: Ping G410 LST, 9 degree, VA Composites Raijin Black 65 X

3 Wood: Sim Tour Issue, 14.5 degree, VA Composites Synystr 75 X

Utility: Ping iCrossover 3 iron, GD 95X 

Irons: Srixon ZX5/ZX7 Combo, TT X100

Wedges: Vokey 54/58, S300

Putter:  Lajosi, Bellum Winnmore, or Scotty 5.5......We'll see who wins!! 

Ball: Titleist ProV1

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20 minutes ago, quizzylish said:

I appreciate all the responses and tips but I'm still wondering what to do with the current shaft adapter I glued up?  Do I pull it and restart or should I be okay since I have swung it aggressively several times and it seems fine, or will this fail over time?  

 

I've had two heads fly off in my playing career.  One driver and one 3 wood.  These were done by someone else, which honestly led me to start doing my own work.  The one 3 wood head was never found since it tumbled off straight ahead in the weeds and I'm pretty sure sank into a pond.  If no one has experienced this situation, it honestly is the strangest feeling to all of a sudden lose all that weight while performing a full swing.  

My rule is: if in doubt, pull it apart.  No need to fool around and guess.

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I've used the Tour Set for quite a few builds - including my current gamers - and have never, ever had a single problem at all. 

 

Certainly seen it get flak around here but in my experience; it's done what it's supposed to do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, aenemated said:

I've used the Tour Set for quite a few builds - including my current gamers - and have never, ever had a single problem at all. 

 

Certainly seen it get flak around here but in my experience; it's done what it's supposed to do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

My son uses the Tour Set and swears by it.  He chuckles at me for being stubborn with using the 24 hour set. 

 

Old timers like myself are just creatures of habit I guess.  😉

Edited by Port and Starboard
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13 hours ago, jblough99 said:

If you want faster set times but still looking for max strength, I use this.  Have never had an issue.  According to Golfworks its formulated to match 3M epoxy.

 

I've always avoided the regular Tour Set because of all the stories of failure.  

 

Screenshot_20240529_163445_Chrome.jpg.2814c9e6be85e37a86c85aca02605700.jpg

Not a big fan of the regular tour set either, but the plus is great. No issues for many years. 

 

If in doubt, pull it apart and redo it. 

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3 hours ago, aenemated said:

Certainly seen it get flak around here but in my experience; it's done what it's supposed to do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

a handful of failures get reported (and frequently re-referenced) on the internet and the perception of the failure rate is always going to be way higher than the reality.   it might be a bit higher than some of the other options but it's still likely even better than a 1 in 10k failure rate.   I personally think it's much more likely just an indication that it's less forgiving to user error than any kind of problem with the formulation.   But everyone has to make their own decision - and that's fine whichever way they lean.

 

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20 hours ago, quizzylish said:

I've been using the Golfworks Tour set Epoxy recently vs. the 24 hour epoxy.  I like the faster cure time vs. waiting 24 hours.  I've been doing smaller jobs, one or two clubs so I haven't been mixing a lot.  I've noticed lately with the smaller portions, It doesn't appear to be setting as well.  I really try to mix 1:1 and I feel I am but the syringe is so hard to push evenly sometimes.  

 

My most recent adapter I installed, I ended up playing with the club 6 hours later and it was fine however when I checked the epoxy this morning.  It was firm yet soft.  I could dent it with my finder nail and when I ripped it off the cardboard, It was flexible, not hard and brittle like I expected.  I've used the club already with fine results, but will this epoxy fail eventually?  

 

One side note.  I did put the epoxy outside in the sunlight.  It was in direct sun and about 70 degrees out.  I noticed after about a half hour the epoxy looked very matte instead of glossy.  Not sure if this did anything or just exposed it was still a bad mix.  

I have used the GolfWorks Tour set for years and have never had a failure. But I recently changed over to 3M products and I have been very impressed. While it is a bit more costly I feel it’s well worth it.

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On 5/29/2024 at 2:28 PM, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Opinions on Brampton's 24-hour epoxy in comparison? 

I've been using the 20/20 Long Cure for the last few years, and have not had any issues. I've never used any quick cure epoxy, but have never had a failure in 35 years of building clubs.

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23 hours ago, quizzylish said:

I appreciate all the responses and tips but I'm still wondering what to do with the current shaft adapter I glued up?  Do I pull it and restart or should I be okay since I have swung it aggressively several times and it seems fine, or will this fail over time?  

 

I've had two heads fly off in my playing career.  One driver and one 3 wood.  These were done by someone else, which honestly led me to start doing my own work.  The one 3 wood head was never found since it tumbled off straight ahead in the weeds and I'm pretty sure sank into a pond.  If no one has experienced this situation, it honestly is the strangest feeling to all of a sudden lose all that weight while performing a full swing.  

I’ve seen clubheads fly off before (from other peoples builds) and in every instance I can remember the shaft surface was inadequately prepped, if it had been prepped at all. I think if you are confident that step was done correctly, you can trust the epoxy to do it’s job.

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