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Ping G430 Sale On BST Allegations


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Good morning,

 

I recently sold a G430 Fairway Head 15 Degree in the BST.  The buyer received the item promptly and is now leveling that I did not take adequate photos of item and is pointing out blemishes that he states were not in the listing.  Something that is categorically false to me.  Here are the photos in the listing and the subsequent photos are ones sent back to me.  Buyer is using threatening language and demanding a full refund before shipping item back.  I refused. 

 

 

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When you say it's "categorically false" are you implying that your pics adequately showed the blemishes, or that the club was totally blemish free when you mailed it to him? Because those are two very different things.

 

If it's the former, and the pics you included here were the only ones you had in your listing they definitely don't do a great job at showing those blemishes. You can barely make out one blemish by the crown sight dot in your second photo but that's it.

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This is unfortunate.
It looks like the normal Ping finish in which under the right lighting or with bright flash photography one can see odd marks but under most lighting conditions these marks are not visible.  
I think it’s inherent in the matte finish. I’ve noticed this on some of my Pings. 
Or the buyer did something to the club?

I’m on your side but the hassle wouldn’t be worth it to me. I’d refund the guy but only after he’d provided a tracking number and the tracking number shows it was actually shipped.

PayPal usually or often sides with the buyer, if he disputes the transaction , so I’d cut to the chase and just refund him.  

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Posted (edited)

@MidwestHeart

 

Invite the buyer to this thread to get his side of the story.

 

As far as your pics vs his, I can definitely see his issue.  Rule of thumb, you can never have too many well lit pictures in a for sale ad.  Also your original ad makes no mention of any issues with the finish, why?

 

As far as the return/refund goes, I would refund when you receive the item back.

Edited by jblough99

Driver: TaylorMade BRNR 9.5* Tour 2.0 Black 75X

Fairway:  Ping G430 Max 13.5* Tour 2.0 Black 75X

Fairway:  Ping G430 Max 19.5* Tour 2.0 Black 75X

Irons:  PXG 0317 CB 4-GW KBS Tour 130X

Wedge: Ping Glide 4.0 54S Modus 125W

Wedge: Ping Glide 4.0 58S Modus 125W

Putter: LAB Link.1

Ball: Titleist Pro V1

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Posted (edited)

Who was the buyer? Under no circumstances do you issue a full refund before the item is on its way back to you.  

 

The marks do not show up well in your photos if they were present at the time.  That said, with the Ping matte finish, I can probably find something "wrong" with every club if I look hard enough. I am extremely particular about those issues.  If the marks were not present when you got took photos, you did nothing wrong.   Depending on their nature, some of those marks look more like oil from somebody's fingers or something of that nature.  Those will wipe off with some mild dish detergent and water  (I would not recommend magic eraser as it can be abrasive).   If they are scratches, then those should have been disclosed.  I'm mostly siding with you on this one.  The buyer may have a point (don't know yet) but some recent BST trolls and general nature of some BST requests have me somewhat jaded on everybody except buyers/sellers on here with solid reputations and feedback (and most are great).

 

Was the buyer one of those "Looking for a new or mint Ping G430 3 wood with a  Ventus Velocore shaft.  Head must have with no marks, scratches, or any use at all.  Must be under $150 total"  folks that have become more common on here?

Edited by Anser3
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I'd personally refund after receiving the item back.  Those marks wouldn't have bothered me and as stated above Ping matt finishes just are like that.  But with paypal taking the buyer's side many times, probably easier just to agree to undo the deal.  Not sure how you both will trust each other enough to figure out the right time to refund the money.  Think we need to hear from the buyer for sure and see what you all can work out on timing.   Sorry, it's getting to where it's almost not worth selling some things, trading in at the store is certainly more final and simple but increases loss on the transaction.  

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48 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

When you say it's "categorically false" are you implying that your pics adequately showed the blemishes, or that the club was totally blemish free when you mailed it to him? Because those are two very different things.

 

If it's the former, and the pics you included here were the only ones you had in your listing they definitely don't do a great job at showing those blemishes. You can barely make out one blemish by the crown sight dot in your second photo but that's it.

I’m implying that the buyer, in bad faith, is making a stink about an item that wasn’t up to the standard he “wanted” and just wants his money back with no strings attached.  This isn’t Roger Dunn.  

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9 minutes ago, larryd3 said:

I'd personally refund after receiving the item back.  Those marks wouldn't have bothered me and as stated above Ping matt finishes just are like that.  But with paypal taking the buyer's side many times, probably easier just to agree to undo the deal.  Not sure how you both will trust each other enough to figure out the right time to refund the money.  Think we need to hear from the buyer for sure and see what you all can work out on timing.   Sorry, it's getting to where it's almost not worth selling some things, trading in at the store is certainly more final and simple but increases loss on the transaction.  

I agreed to refund him minus the shipping and packaging once I received the item back.  He began to use a threatening tone, i.e. Filing claims on PayPal, getting the admin on golfWRX involved, giving me feedback, etc.  if I didn’t “refund immediately” “all of it”.  You are absolutely right about it not being worth it.  Guy gets a clean head for a club that is $349 new and cry’s after he paid $175 for it with no tax or shipping.  Insane.

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42 minutes ago, jblough99 said:

@MidwestHeart

 

Invite the buyer to this thread to get his side of the story.

 

As far as your pics vs his, I can definitely see his issue.  Rule of thumb, you can never have too many well lit pictures in a for sale ad.  Also your original ad makes no mention of any issues with the finish, why?

 

As far as the return/refund goes, I would refund when you receive the item back.

I never mentioned the finish or condition actually, I just posted the photo as I thought they were adequate, especially given the price that was accepted.  I definitely did list the item as “mint” or “like new” or anything.  He simply didn’t hesitate, and wanted the club, paid, and I shipped it.  For reference, I’ve sold hundreds of items on golfwrx and have 100% feedback.  My only ding was years ago when I had to ask a seller if I could back out of a sale, which I compensated him for.  

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Just now, MidwestHeart said:

I’m implying that the buyer, in bad faith, is making a stink about an item that wasn’t up to the standard he “wanted” and just wants his money back with no strings attached.  This isn’t Roger Dunn.  

 

I get where your frustrations are coming from, but to me this seems like a prime example of a situation where both parties are partially to blame.

 

The buyer should have enough common sense to realize if he/she is getting a really good price on a club they can't expect it to be in pristine condition, and threatening language is never a good route to take.

 

On the other hand, just because you didn't list it as "blemish free" doesn't mean you shouldn't be accountable for not taking pictures that adequately show the condition of the item. The only description of the item in your add was "Ping G430 Max 15 Degree Head +HC". It doesn't mention anything about the marks on the head regardless of how normal those may be for a used Ping wood.

 

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5 minutes ago, MidwestHeart said:

No.  I listed the item for $200 (Head only) he offered $175 and I accepted.  I did not list the item as “mint” or blemish free.  I’m getting a little tired of the WRX crowd as well who demand new items for 50% of what they would cost new when it’s going to look like that after a few rounds anyway.  I’m over this place. 

 

I was being facetious with my comment.   It was not an attack on you in any way.  I'm tired of that crowd as well.  There is a whole thread about this.     I also get tired of seeing WTB posts that read like "Looking for a Taylor Made hookup" for "Looking for someone with a Footjoy hookup" with no other details.  I want to dm them and say "go to any Taylor Made dealer" or "Go to Fototjoy.com".  I don't DM them because it is a waste of time. 

 

 I am all about finding deals.  Golfwrx is the first place I check if I am looking for equipment and sometimes I even have a set price in mind.  But some people's posts range from the lazy (asking for items that can easily be found pretty much anywhere online if they are willing to pay) to the entitled "I want a brand new Qi10 LS with an Autoflex shaft for $400". 

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While I understand it’s frustrating your photos were taken in pretty low light, this able to “hide” the blemishes or whatever you call it even if it’s unintentional. 
 

There is a noticeable dark blemish near the sighing dot but even I was not able to really see it until it was pointed out by the buyer and his pictures. 
 

this isn’t Roger Dunn, but just try to take better pictures in the future with good lighting that can show the entire head in all angles.

 

in this case, a return/refund wouldn’t be a bad resolution. 

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Posted (edited)

If anything, I understate the condition of clubs I sell (they are much cleaner than I describe--but again, I have issues and my definition of clean is probably too anal retentive.).  Personally, I don't consider the OP's head to be "clean" by any means. It isn't bad either.  It's what I expect from a used Ping 3 wood.  Depending on what the mark is by the alignment dot, it may wipe off.  For $175, i would not have complained as a buyer. 

 

That said, the fact the buyer used threatening language means he just made his way to my ignore list (if I ever find out his name). 

Edited by Anser3
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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, MidwestHeart said:

I’m implying that the buyer, in bad faith, is making a stink about an item that wasn’t up to the standard he “wanted” and just wants his money back with no strings attached.  This isn’t Roger Dunn.  


Im not disagreeing with you at all, and believe me I get where your coming from with the current state of the BST being full of cheapskates, I’ve been around for quite a while and there definitely has been a huge change in the “community”

 

Do us all a favor and list the buyer so we can all avoid them in future transactions.

Edited by jblough99
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Driver: TaylorMade BRNR 9.5* Tour 2.0 Black 75X

Fairway:  Ping G430 Max 13.5* Tour 2.0 Black 75X

Fairway:  Ping G430 Max 19.5* Tour 2.0 Black 75X

Irons:  PXG 0317 CB 4-GW KBS Tour 130X

Wedge: Ping Glide 4.0 54S Modus 125W

Wedge: Ping Glide 4.0 58S Modus 125W

Putter: LAB Link.1

Ball: Titleist Pro V1

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, jblough99 said:


Im not disagreeing with you at all, and believe me I get where your coming from with the current state of the BST being full of cheapskates, I’ve been around for quite a while and there definitely has been a huge change to the “community” here.

 

Do us all a favor and list the buyer so we can all avoid them in future transactions.

 

 

I posted in another thread, I believe users should not be allowed to post anything it the WTB until they reach a minimum number of posts (similar to the restriction on selling). There have been several of those recently and I had such users respond toa  recent BST ad I had. One is a golfwrx member that claims to Richard Audi personally.  But he has been a member for  years and hasn't made a single post.

Edited by Anser3
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52 minutes ago, MidwestHeart said:

I’m implying that the buyer, in bad faith, is making a stink about an item that wasn’t up to the standard he “wanted” and just wants his money back with no strings attached.  This isn’t Roger Dunn.  

Regardless of the price he paid, the pics you posted are pretty low quality.  Clear pics that show the condition are a must. Not an assumption based on the price and chance.  

 

I agree that he shouldn't get a refund until you receive the head back though.  They should know that any refund would require a return first.  Threatening language is BS.  

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1 hour ago, Anser3 said:

 

I was being facetious with my comment.   It was not an attack on you in any way.  I'm tired of that crowd as well.  There is a whole thread about this.     I also get tired of seeing WTB posts that read like "Looking for a Taylor Made hookup" for "Looking for someone with a Footjoy hookup" with no other details.  I want to dm them and say "go to any Taylor Made dealer" or "Go to Fototjoy.com".  I don't DM them because it is a waste of time. 

 

 I am all about finding deals.  Golfwrx is the first place I check if I am looking for equipment and sometimes I even have a set price in mind.  But some people's posts range from the lazy (asking for items that can easily be found pretty much anywhere online if they are willing to pay) to the entitled "I want a brand new Qi10 LS with an Autoflex shaft for $400". 

LOL.  Qi10 with autoflex for $400 is hilarious bro, touché.  And I know you weren’t taking a dig it’s all good. 

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2 hours ago, larryd3 said:

 But with paypal taking the buyer's side many times, probably easier just to agree to undo the deal.  

This is a HUGE problem with ebay and paypal right now.

 

Luckily in golf there isnt too much of it since it's generally good people with money to spend, but paypal and ebay have created an air of 'buyer is always right' and screw the sellers at every turn. It's gotten REALLY BAD. Individual sellers are not, and cannot, afford to be like Amazon.

 

I had a recent ebay case on my seller account like this and ebay's responses were an absolute joke and were crafted to alienate the seller at all turns under the guise of being helpful. Its a joke.

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Posted (edited)

@MidwestHeart This is unfortunate. I'm not going to say that either party is 100% in the right. His approach to asking for a possible refund is not correct though. You've been here longer than I have, think we even did a deal on some wedges a couple years ago if I remember correctly. With that said I'd tag him in this post to try and see what his reaction and side of things is. If it wasn't what he was expecting that happens and is part of buying used equipment. Demanding a full refund before shipping the head back is in bad faith when doing a deal with someone who has a long-standing membership and solid feedback to go with it. Either way, hopefully a positive resolution can be achieved in this case. 

Edited by Broken3wood
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I would go through the Pyapldispute/refund process to the letter. just to hopefully avoid any further issues.

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Very unfortunate. I've been in this situation with a G425 7 wood I sold. Sometimes it's tough to catch every minute detail given lighting conditions and the finish material on the Ping woods. Fortunately the buyer and I were able to work it out amicably in what ultimately was a win/win solution. Not ideal when the other side of the transaction isn't willing to sort it out. FWIW $175 seems like a great deal for a Ping G430 Max head regardless.

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I'll be honest, I don't condone threatening tone, but anytime I list something that has a blemish, I call it out in text, AND take a photo where it is visible. Would it bother me? No, but I can see where the buyer is coming from. Again, not condoning his method, but as for the pics, the more transparent the better.

 

Josh

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Buyers tone and demands are highly unnecessary, and some frustration is warranted. Certainly do not send funds until you receive the club. However, I dont believe its right to claim that price ($175 being a great deal) should dictate what the buyers expectation for condition should be. Expectation should always align with photographs. Acceptable condition is always going to subjective and documenting all blemishes will always cover you. You truly can never post enough photos and when in doubt, as many have mentioned, it is always safer to photograph, describe, and rate your clubs as cautiously as possible. We know paypal always sides with the buyer, so best to issue the refund and use it as a lesson going forward. 

 

I do not blame you for not wanting to do business with the buyer again, but I also understand why the buyer may be disappointed that the crown marks were not properly displayed (even if you felt they should be assumed).

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9 minutes ago, jlevitt9 said:

I'll be honest, I don't condone threatening tone, but anytime I list something that has a blemish, I call it out in text, AND take a photo where it is visible. Would it bother me? No, but I can see where the buyer is coming from. Again, not condoning his method, but as for the pics, the more transparent the better.

 

Josh

Honestly, I just looked at all of my Ping woods and hybrids.  Some angles in all kind of light, smudges just don't show up and if I twist it a different way, they kind of show up.  Stuff I didn't even notice on them before this thread and I may very well have missed it in the description if I was selling any of them.  I don't see much perfection from any of us.   To me if a buyer wants perfect, buy new and inspect the heck out of it before you leave the store.  The matt finish just makes it more difficult.  But once again, asking for a full refund while still in possession of the club is just wrong.  

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51 minutes ago, KingKong said:

How is this different than your Roger Dunn comment? 

 

image.png.27a43ceac8bdcd9898724b69caec5673.png

As I can recall, you are a troll.  But I’ll explain anyway.  I’ve done business with the aforementioned member you quoted prior to THAT transaction with no problems.  In that particular case I had a change of heart and kindly asked if I could cancel before shipping.  He gave me a hard time about it and I offered to compensate him by keeping the shipping fee for his trouble.  He ended up refunding me anyway and then proceeded to leave that negative mark anyway (which I mentioned earlier in this thread as the sole instance this has happened.).  So if anyone on here questions if I do business in good faith, that’s up to you to determine.  

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