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US Open is Length :: Length is US Open


OBbogey5

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Finkle?
 

I apologize but I’d like to jump in here.

Remember, you don’t have to read this.

 

This topic has become my fake obsession in the world of golf since I simply cannot wrap my Dumbo ears around the LIV debate, which doesn’t affect me at all, and length adjustments will.


Something easy. Distance debate, What the USGA should do about it. There will be a lot of cross governance with the PGA & Tour

 

I don’t think it’s course length at all that protects par. I read it here a lot that these courses are too short to challenge the boys. Reason I say that is because it was never length before which kept scores high. A hole that’s 600 yds has to be a par 5. No problem for today’s game. A 550yds par 4, well it’s a 300yds drive 50yds rollout, and a 185 sky high 8i to the front center and bounce and roll. Length simply means nothing to them. Never heard them say, “Damn, course is too long.” Except Pat Perez at Torrey in January, but that’s another story. 
 

So it’s not length — It’s trouble. Rough, bunkers, doglegs, trees, water, OB (yeah.. here in Southern California seems I’m always playing courses lined with lateral… these guys, never). 

 

In the length vs tricks debate, tricks is the answer to protecting par at the US Open.
 

Now, that stuff’s going to be negated by the ridiculous equipment. That’s where golf screwed all this up. All they do is point fingers at whose fault that is. Their favorite patsy: US, you and me. We the regular a** golfers demanded the steroid equipment (we also put a gun to Barry Bonds’s head and forced him to hit the long ball…. ). Such a crock. I would play any top equipment that’s available, and would not care if it’s difficult. Every golfer would do the same because we love the game, even the pros- I hope. Show up at a car lot and pick your poison.. Hellcat or Bolt, what are we talking about here. Simply as consumers, HELL YEAH! We want the rocket. 
 

-If the ball gets going sideways. If the mid irons don’t grab from the rough-
 

This would be the only way length becomes a consequence of actions needed to fix the US Open without overly tricking up the rough, and the tee placements, and the hazards, and give back the golf courses to the public to enjoy the experience of playing the US Open courses. Fix the damn equipment.
 

I get it, golf is unique as length is a huge factor in scoring. In bowling, power helps but the pins are reachable for everyone. Same with all the sports. You can go to the Hall of Fame without hitting 500 HRs. There are just not many sports, if any, that are full send. Full send until you get really really close, then… tappidy tappidy tap tap. 
 

So we never should’ve gotten to this point. USGA… “fairways and green, fairways and greens.” That’s all they ever preached. All I heard growing up, fairways and greens. No idea what the kids are hearing now… “&@$! the fairways, hit the flagstick.” ????
 

In a simpler time, the way to stricken a US Open competitor’s success was to take away fairways and greens, with skinny fairways and thick patchy rough and hard fast greens. 
 

Length is only a component to the solution because it’s a consequence of shortened equipment. 
 

Get the game back by ending iron injections (Jesus, am I taking about Hollywood and wives or golf here… same trouble, same answer).. get rid of the injections and implants. if you want to call a 7i a 9i, go for it. 
 

I’m borderline calling for persimmon only for woods.. put some tech in it and make things bigger and shallower and whatnot. Graphite shafts, don’t really care.

 

Golfball- have to go back in time here. I’d go with the Titleist Professional era ball, mainly because it was so durable. Would love everyone to play balata if it would last and wasn’t so expensive. Maybe now it’ll be cheap as China, and we could.
 

I think the US Open could play to an over par winner every year, it’s just that course length is not it. 
 

Obviously, nothing drastic will happen, EVER. The money is flowing, and they don’t care. If they cared, the fixes are so simple.. copying yourself from 30 years ago.. easy. So this is the argument of the hour. 
 

Because I want to keep talking, I think the USGA should only hold national championships at public places. No more privates. There’s a whole world of snobs that get to enjoy country club life, they don’t need the National Open as well. Give it back to the public golfers. If the USGA can’t find enough venues to do this, then it’s time they look in the mirror—it’s a reflection of golf in America. So get it in gear and create what should be. Build resorts, whatever. Charge a ton, okay. That’s capitalism. But public is what it should be. 
 

And finally,,, on topic (in my mind) the golf courses need a seat at the table. Nobody speaks for the golf course. Let me explain.
 

In metal bat baseball, restrictions were implemented and the bats aren’t as hot. Watch a YouTube video, kids crush older bats just the same. Somebody spoke up for the pitcher. But in golf, if the golf course had similar representation it would have held the equipment in check. So there needs to be a very influential golf course body that has negotiating power in the “distance debate”. Not sure if any of those fancy name designers realize they could have played a bigger part. Nicklaus. 
 

The one guy who is able and qualified in every area to fix it is Tiger Woods. I wouldn’t put the super intellectual stuff on his plate, but his gravitas properly framed would do the job, and I can go back to shotmaking and watching pros suffer one week a year. 
 

Watching on TV, does anyone really care if the ball flies 300yds or 250yds?? Makes no difference 🤣

 

And whatever equipment that makes 2024 Billy Bob better than 1994 Billy Bob IS NOT the same equipment that makes Scottie Scheffler the player is compared to who he’d been. So Billy Bob can have his hybrids. Scottie don’t need them. There’s room to play. 
 

Screw it. I’m hitting the post button. Suffer. 

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17 minutes ago, OBbogey5 said:


TM, how much would you love a modern Taylormade 360-400cc permission driver. All the bells and whistles of fine grain and polish. C’mon.. 

I would rather not play haha. I started in the 360-400cc era and just couldn’t imagine playing persimmons.

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16 minutes ago, TM golf guy said:

I would rather not play haha. I started in the 360-400cc era and just couldn’t imagine playing persimmons.

They weren’t that hard to play! 😏

Can you hit a three wood as hard as you want? Same same.

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@OBbogey5 : That was probably one of the most epic rants I have read on this forum! Not having a go at you, I mean that sincerely! Bravo! 👏

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WITB (Spring 2024):

Driver:               Mizuno MP600 (9.5*)

3W:                    Titleist 909F2 (15.5*)

Hybrid:              TaylorMade Burner Rescue (19*)

Irons:                 Mizuno MX-200 (4-G)

Wedges:            Vokey Oil Can (54*); Mizuno MP-T (58*)

Putter:               Odyssey White Steel 2-ball SRT

Ball:                   Srixon Q-Star Yellow / Kirkland Signature v3 Yellow

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46 minutes ago, AZBRONCFAN said:

Growing the rough and tightening fairways only helps the bombers. Nobody hits enough fairways that makes being short and accurate an advantage. There were a lot of myths repeated over the years and fairways and greens is one of them. Because the guys at 150 yards in the rough will hit more greens than the guy at 200 in the fairway 


Everything helps the bombers then. I know making something longer helps the bombers more than making it more narrow and penalizing.

 

Immediately remedy is tricks. But the only solution is equipment control. 

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10 minutes ago, OBbogey5 said:


Everything helps the bombers then. I know making something longer helps the bombers more than making it more narrow and penalizing.

 

Immediately remedy is tricks. But the only solution is equipment control. 

That will help them too. The shorter guys will get shorter. Hitting it far is a skill

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3 minutes ago, AZBRONCFAN said:

That will help them too. The shorter guys will get shorter. Hitting it far is a skill


Of course. Everything helps bombers. That’s sports. But the bombers and the grinders will have to figure it out with lesser equipment. And they will. It gives more of an opportunity to the shotmakers who work on their craft, than robot man who wakes up, makes one swing all day long — high and far — and downs his shakes. 
 

Bombers make it look easy when they’re on because it’s big high power on repeat. Grinders find a variety ways to get it in the hole. Both can exist. Grinders should want a rollback in equipment, simply because their Bonner competitors will have more issues finding fairways and holding greens from the rough. 

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Anything under 400 yards is a par 3 ... anything between 400-600 yards is a par 4 ... there are no more par 5s. All of sudden, par is a good score again.

Edited by tatertot

Driver: Titleist TS3, 8.5°

2 Wood: Adams InSight XTD, 10.5°

Fairway: Callaway Rogue ST Max LS, 18°

Utility Iron: Cleveland UHX, 20°

Irons: Titleist 718 AP1, 5-GW, 24°-48°
UW: Titleist Vokey SM8, 52°F

LW: Titleist Vokey SM8, 60°D
Putter: Bettinardi inovai 6.0 slant neck, 34"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B RX
Bag: Sun Mountain Metro Sunday Bag

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3 hours ago, OBbogey5 said:


TM, how much would you love a modern Taylormade 360-400cc permission driver. All the bells and whistles of fine grain and polish. C’mon.. 

 

Driver heads are 200-210g. Persimmon at 400cc (as far as I can tell from google) would be a 320g head. We're talking wedge head weight on a 43-46" shaft. Yeah, that'd be fun to swing. 

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I’m generally not a fan of long rough and narrow fairways as it doesn’t separate the best players but I’d love the USGA to lose the course again like they did at Shinnecock in 2018. Grow the rough to 6 inches, put the pins on the slopes and have the greens rolling 15. This used to be the one event that used to give us chaos and that’s been taken away.

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53 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Driver heads are 200-210g. Persimmon at 400cc (as far as I can tell from google) would be a 320g head. We're talking wedge head weight on a 43-46" shaft. Yeah, that'd be fun to swing. 

I'm glad you looked this up, saving me the effort.  The thing would have to have a massive neck to protect the head from the muscle heads who could swing it.

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2 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

I’m generally not a fan of long rough and narrow fairways as it doesn’t separate the best players but I’d love the USGA to lose the course again like they did at Shinnecock in 2018. Grow the rough to 6 inches, put the pins on the slopes and have the greens rolling 15. This used to be the one event that used to give us chaos and that’s been taken away.

Stop giving these guys 50+ yards of roll.  (Unless it's designed to roll them into a waste area.)  Ok, don't water the greens.  Water the fairways instead.

 

Then, if Bomber John manages to land their +6 AoA, 16° launch, 1550 of spin amd 190 ball speed monster in the fairway, tip your cap and let them reap the rewards.  Like Sungjae Im's shot on the Tour's Twitter feed today, that landed 7' from the cup, stopped, and then rolled into the bunker...

 

These guys are strong, these guys are coordinated:  these guys are good.  There's absolutely no reason why they should be hitting it back where Jack did, or with the same club.

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3 hours ago, OBbogey5 said:


Of course. Everything helps bombers. That’s sports. But the bombers and the grinders will have to figure it out with lesser equipment. And they will. It gives more of an opportunity to the shotmakers who work on their craft, than robot man who wakes up, makes one swing all day long — high and far — and downs his shakes. 
 

Bombers make it look easy when they’re on because it’s big high power on repeat. Grinders find a variety ways to get it in the hole. Both can exist. Grinders should want a rollback in equipment, simply because their Bonner competitors will have more issues finding fairways and holding greens from the rough. 

You idea of grinders is a fairytale. No matter what era you take, the bombers have dominated. Distance is a skill. The problem with golf is now that there are actually measurable stats, the long time myths everyone were told as truth have never been farther from the truth. 

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1 minute ago, AZBRONCFAN said:

The players would adjust to it. Does anyone pay attention anymore? I'm pretty sure these guys would have zero issues, like everyone seems to think, if they shrink the heads. 

SmartSelect_20240613_202018_Chrome.jpg

SmartSelect_20240613_201947_Chrome.jpg

Agree that 300 won't do it, but 150 or persimmon will make them think.  I still remember that 150 driver with 43 inch shaft and a balata.  You couldn't play around with that combo.

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Just now, StoutKing said:

Agree that 300 won't do it, but 150 or persimmon will make them think.  I still remember that 150 driver with 43 inch shaft and a balata.  You couldn't play around with that combo.

It will also affect the short knockers that aren't near as straight as everyone seems to think they are. Making these guys who bomb it shorter is only going to increase their accuracy. When I have watched Scotty and Bryson play in the real world, I couldn't imagine anyone hitting it very much straighter. 

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Just now, AZBRONCFAN said:

It will also affect the short knockers that aren't near as straight as everyone seems to think they are. Making these guys who bomb it shorter is only going to increase their accuracy. When I have watched Scotty and Bryson play in the real world, I couldn't imagine anyone hitting it very much straighter. 

Not doubting that at all.  Just would like to see more skill back into hitting driver; something where consequences are serious if you go all out and miss.  150cc will do that.

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22 minutes ago, AZBRONCFAN said:

You idea of grinders is a fairytale. No matter what era you take, the bombers have dominated. Distance is a skill. The problem with golf is now that there are actually measurable stats, the long time myths everyone were told as truth have never been farther from the truth. 

The game is easier when you’re closer to the hole. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out

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19 minutes ago, StoutKing said:

Not doubting that at all.  Just would like to see more skill back into hitting driver; something where consequences are serious if you go all out and miss.  150cc will do that.

Persimmons ran 190cc….and we didn’t have an issue hitting them.

 

In the USGA press conference on Tuesday Whan mentioned they had discussed driver reduction when the upcoming ball parameters was announced.  However they felt the ball rollback would affect the long hitters the most BUT a driver change would affect amateur play the most.

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35 minutes ago, AZBRONCFAN said:

You idea of grinders is a fairytale. No matter what era you take, the bombers have dominated. Distance is a skill. The problem with golf is now that there are actually measurable stats, the long time myths everyone were told as truth have never been farther from the truth. 


What exactly is the fairytale?

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