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Ghostdunc27

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I've been away from golf for a very long time, over 15 years.  I am getting up to speed on equipment changes.  For the most part, the improvements and price increases make sense to me.  I understand the improvement in driver tech, increased MOI in everything including putters.  I even understand the "reasoning" behind making what used to be a 9 iron a PW (likely to sell more clubs in the simulator). 

 

One thing I don't really understand is all of the different shafts options in putters, and what difference they make.  I was looking at LAB putters, they are incredibly expensive stock, and they have a $400 upcharge for certain shafts.  This seems insane to me.  I can get paying $750 for a driver with the shaft you want.  That would have cost around $500 15 years ago.  But the increase in price of putters has outpaced everything. 

 

Are any of these developments of real value? Or is it just marketing and charging insane prices just because some of these companies can get away with it?

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You know how some people play very soft wood/iron shafts and some people like very stiff wood/iron shafts? Well that can translate to putters too. 

Lefty - WITB Thread

Driver: 10° Cobra LTDxLS | AD-IZ 6X 

3W: 15° Callaway Paradym X | AD-IZ 7X

3H: 19° Ping G410 | Tensei CK Pro Orange 90TX

Irons: PXG 0311P 4-6 | 0317CB 7-PW | DG 120 X100

Wedges: SM9 50° - 54° - 58° 

Putter(s): Ping PLD Anser 4K | CMD Gauge R | and more. 

Ball: TP5X 2024

Bag: Ghost Katana

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IMP, they prey on people who cannot putt and charge them an arm and a leg with terms, jargon and "tech."  If you cruise through some of the posts of the people who love the new putters, then look at their signatures and they already have different putters - not all, but a lot.

 

You might be able to find a super slight difference (not a gain or loss, just a difference) with some things, but if you can putt, then you can putt.

 

I can already hit a putt where I want it, so how is a shaft gonna help me?  Maybe it if helped with my reads.

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2 hours ago, Ghostdunc27 said:

I've been away from golf for a very long time, over 15 years.  I am getting up to speed on equipment changes.  For the most part, the improvements and price increases make sense to me.  I understand the improvement in driver tech, increased MOI in everything including putters.  I even understand the "reasoning" behind making what used to be a 9 iron a PW (likely to sell more clubs in the simulator). 

 

One thing I don't really understand is all of the different shafts options in putters, and what difference they make.  I was looking at LAB putters, they are incredibly expensive stock, and they have a $400 upcharge for certain shafts.  This seems insane to me.  I can get paying $750 for a driver with the shaft you want.  That would have cost around $500 15 years ago.  But the increase in price of putters has outpaced everything. 

 

Are any of these developments of real value? Or is it just marketing and charging insane prices just because some of these companies can get away with it?

Is it worth it?  Probably not.  What's the biggest difference?  More feel than performance IMO.  That being said I'm upgrading my DF3 from steel to TPT.  Stupidly expensive but I want to do it.  Honestly I'm not in love with the feel of the stock so trying something new.

 

Also - I put a CT Tour in my OG White Hot.  I putt worse with it I think than the stock steel.  Too boardy and my distance control is worse.

Edited by StoutKing
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High end wood shafts, which utilize high modulus materials, do provide objective advantages when the shaft is in deflection. The retail price of these models provides the manufacturer with roughly a 1000% markup over their manufacturing costs. “High end” putter shafts can offer a 2000% for carbon models to approaching 10,000% markup for steel. Yes, ten thousand percent.

 

Additionally, the only condition where advanced graphite shafts offer an advantage is when they are under deflection. If you are hitting putts with enough swing speed to significantly deflect your putter shaft, perhaps a Ventus putter shaft could be a consideration. Note: that’s a joke.

 

There are two areas where alternative shafts are indeed different. The first is feel. The second is weight distribution. The Strokelab line is the obvious example of the latter. 

Edited by Jeff58

Driver - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 5S

FW - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 6S

Hybrid - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 7S

Irons - ZX5 / C-Taper Lite S

Wedges - SM9 50/08 56/10 60/04

Putter - Odyssey Ai-One Milled #7 T

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4 hours ago, Ghostdunc27 said:

I've been away from golf for a very long time, over 15 years.  I am getting up to speed on equipment changes.  For the most part, the improvements and price increases make sense to me.  I understand the improvement in driver tech, increased MOI in everything including putters.  I even understand the "reasoning" behind making what used to be a 9 iron a PW (likely to sell more clubs in the simulator). 

 

One thing I don't really understand is all of the different shafts options in putters, and what difference they make.  I was looking at LAB putters, they are incredibly expensive stock, and they have a $400 upcharge for certain shafts.  This seems insane to me.  I can get paying $750 for a driver with the shaft you want.  That would have cost around $500 15 years ago.  But the increase in price of putters has outpaced everything. 

 

Are any of these developments of real value? Or is it just marketing and charging insane prices just because some of these companies can get away with it?

I never really thought about what shaft was in my putter until about a year ago.  I picked up a LAGP and I just love the way they feel.  It's mostly just the weight of them but there are a ton of options that I really only think you can know you'll like by demoing them.

 

The Odyssey shafts are really light steel but they have a brass weight under the grip to increase MOI while maintaining the same overall weight.  I personally hate the feel of counterbalanced putter but love the heavy LAGP shafts.

 

I think the biggest difference is in feel and how it affects tempo more than the consistency on off-center strikes.

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9 minutes ago, svlido said:

I never really thought about what shaft was in my putter until about a year ago.  I picked up a LAGP and I just love the way they feel.  It's mostly just the weight of them but there are a ton of options that I really only think you can know you'll like by demoing them.

 

The Odyssey shafts are really light steel but they have a brass weight under the grip to increase MOI while maintaining the same overall weight.  I personally hate the feel of counterbalanced putter but love the heavy LAGP shafts.

 

I think the biggest difference is in feel and how it affects tempo more than the consistency on off-center strikes.

 

The weight is one big thing that steel cannot do. There are graphite shafts as light as 85g but still stiff where there are also shafts pushing 180g so options for everyone on what they want to build. 

Lefty - WITB Thread

Driver: 10° Cobra LTDxLS | AD-IZ 6X 

3W: 15° Callaway Paradym X | AD-IZ 7X

3H: 19° Ping G410 | Tensei CK Pro Orange 90TX

Irons: PXG 0311P 4-6 | 0317CB 7-PW | DG 120 X100

Wedges: SM9 50° - 54° - 58° 

Putter(s): Ping PLD Anser 4K | CMD Gauge R | and more. 

Ball: TP5X 2024

Bag: Ghost Katana

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Just now, MattM97 said:

 

The weight is one big thing that steel cannot do. There are graphite shafts as light as 85g but still stiff where there are also shafts pushing 180g so options for everyone on what they want to build. 

They can make a steel shaft almost as light and heavy as they want.  The True Temper T2C was 200 grams and the Odyssey AI is around90 grams.

 

The LAGP shaft is on the heavy side but I just like the way the weight is distributed.  I truly was dumb luck for me.

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48 minutes ago, svlido said:

They can make a steel shaft almost as light and heavy as they want.  The True Temper T2C was 200 grams and the Odyssey AI is around90 grams.

 

The LAGP shaft is on the heavy side but I just like the way the weight is distributed.  I truly was dumb luck for me.

 

They can but they can't make an 80g steel shaft that is as stiff as a 130g steel shaft and at the same time cannot make a 180g shaft that is softer in flex. 

 

That's the advantage graphite has over steel. 

Lefty - WITB Thread

Driver: 10° Cobra LTDxLS | AD-IZ 6X 

3W: 15° Callaway Paradym X | AD-IZ 7X

3H: 19° Ping G410 | Tensei CK Pro Orange 90TX

Irons: PXG 0311P 4-6 | 0317CB 7-PW | DG 120 X100

Wedges: SM9 50° - 54° - 58° 

Putter(s): Ping PLD Anser 4K | CMD Gauge R | and more. 

Ball: TP5X 2024

Bag: Ghost Katana

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If you get one club completely correct, it should be your putter.  I’m actually going to argue the exact opposite - why would you allow yourself to play with a piece of equipment in a facet of the game that requires precision to be played with something that is less precise?  Why wouldn’t that be worth as much as a driver, that you may use 13x a round instead of 25-35x? (And would last you a lifetime when treated well).  
 

Even if the $400 shaft is 3% better than a stock steel, that 3% adds up - especially for the most-used club in your bag.

Edited by manVSgolf
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I do think the putter is the most important club in your bag and you should get it correct.

But I think 95% of these expensive putter shafts are bought without a fitting, just hoping that new tech and expense will translate into results.

 

I would make the argument that you could take equal golfers and run an experiment.

Golfer A practices putting an additional hour per week with their existing putter.

Golfer B gets a $400 shaft that fits him perfectly and doesn't practice any extra.

 

I would put a wager on golfer A shaving more strokes than B. 

Edited by oxHadokenxo
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2 minutes ago, Sp4zRX said:


Or why not do both?

Absolutely.  The comparison I would try to make is that practicing an additional hour with an ill-fitting driver probably will not translate into as many strokes shaved as practicing an hour with any putter, even if it's not your gamer.

Though the caveat would be practicing on an actual green so you're making reads and not on a static mat.

Edited by oxHadokenxo
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2 minutes ago, oxHadokenxo said:

Absolutely.  The comparison I would try to make is that practicing an additional hour with an ill-fitting driver probably will not translate into as many strokes shaved as practicing an hour with any putter.


I don’t think anyone is trying to make an argument that practicing with any putter will not make you better. The discussion is whether upgraded putter shafts increase performance, however small that performance increase may be. 

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19 hours ago, Ghostdunc27 said:

I've been away from golf for a very long time, over 15 years.  I am getting up to speed on equipment changes.  For the most part, the improvements and price increases make sense to me.  I understand the improvement in driver tech, increased MOI in everything including putters.  I even understand the "reasoning" behind making what used to be a 9 iron a PW (likely to sell more clubs in the simulator). 

 

One thing I don't really understand is all of the different shafts options in putters, and what difference they make.  I was looking at LAB putters, they are incredibly expensive stock, and they have a $400 upcharge for certain shafts.  This seems insane to me.  I can get paying $750 for a driver with the shaft you want.  That would have cost around $500 15 years ago.  But the increase in price of putters has outpaced everything. 

 

Are any of these developments of real value? Or is it just marketing and charging insane prices just because some of these companies can get away with it?

It’s all marketing. I play professionally and I used a 6 iron shaft in my putter lol.  No reason to pay 400 dollars for a putter shaft. It’s all marketing it’s a joke what they think of to get people to believe stuff. You can sell anything to a golfer.  They made me try and change driver heads but I was like no if it’s not broke don’t fix it.  The best one I think is face milling just because it looks cool lol.  Why I will never sell one of my putters with a face mill.   

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17 minutes ago, Grsl said:

It’s all marketing. I play professionally and I used a 6 iron shaft in my putter lol.  No reason to pay 400 dollars for a putter shaft. It’s all marketing it’s a joke what they think of to get people to believe stuff. You can sell anything to a golfer.  They made me try and change driver heads but I was like no if it’s not broke don’t fix it.  The best one I think is face milling just because it looks cool lol.  Why I will never sell one of my putters with a face mill.   

 

Face milling isn't there to look cool.  If you ever want to find out what texture on a face does, find one of the de la Cruz putters they made in the early 2000's with a completely flat face.  They feel awful.  It's a very harsh clicky feel when you don't take away some surface area on metals as hard as steel. 

 

On the other hand, I think putter shafts being better because they're low torque or stiffer is marketing nonsense.  

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13 hours ago, MattM97 said:

 

They can but they can't make an 80g steel shaft that is as stiff as a 130g steel shaft and at the same time cannot make a 180g shaft that is softer in flex. 

 

That's the advantage graphite has over steel. 

Making a heavy "softer" steel putter shaft is probably easier than doing it in graphite and I don't see the benefit of making a 90 gram steel shaft any stiffer than what Odyssey uses.

 

I don't think there is a performance advantage to graphite, but I do think there is a feel and weight distribution design advantage to graphite over steel.

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1 minute ago, svlido said:

 

Face milling isn't there to look cool.  If you ever want to find out what texture on a face does, find one of the de la Cruz putters they made in the early 2000's with a completely flat face.  They feel awful.  It's a very harsh clicky feel when you don't take away some surface area on metals as hard as steel. 

 

On the other hand, I think putter shafts being better because they're low torque or stiffer is marketing nonsense.  

That’s my point. A face mill will make anything feel soft.  So you don’t know what type of metal they are using.  As far as clicky or soft that’s from the thickness in the head.  I stop playing professionally because of an injury and personal problems.   Why is it that the only way to get a Scotty without a face mill is to have status?  They offer that for some reason to the tour guys but not just your average golfer.  The face mill also takes away the moi. I can make a 1018 feel totally different than another 1018 without a face mill or thickness of the face.  It’s all marketing. Shafts they want you to chase numbers to sell more stuff. Why I used a 6 iron shaft in my putter than a putter shaft.  

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2 minutes ago, svlido said:

Making a heavy "softer" steel putter shaft is probably easier than doing it in graphite and I don't see the benefit of making a 90 gram steel shaft any stiffer than what Odyssey uses.

 

I don't think there is a performance advantage to graphite, but I do think there is a feel and weight distribution design advantage to graphite over steel.

Totally agree. 

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2 minutes ago, svlido said:

Making a heavy "softer" steel putter shaft is probably easier than doing it in graphite and I don't see the benefit of making a 90 gram steel shaft any stiffer than what Odyssey uses.

 

I don't think there is a performance advantage to graphite, but I do think there is a feel and weight distribution design advantage to graphite over steel.

Other tour guys would use a 3 iron shaft.  

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34 minutes ago, Grsl said:

  Why I will never sell one of my putters with a face mill.   

 

What's your putter company name? 

Lefty - WITB Thread

Driver: 10° Cobra LTDxLS | AD-IZ 6X 

3W: 15° Callaway Paradym X | AD-IZ 7X

3H: 19° Ping G410 | Tensei CK Pro Orange 90TX

Irons: PXG 0311P 4-6 | 0317CB 7-PW | DG 120 X100

Wedges: SM9 50° - 54° - 58° 

Putter(s): Ping PLD Anser 4K | CMD Gauge R | and more. 

Ball: TP5X 2024

Bag: Ghost Katana

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I prefer the smooth face or one with very light milling.  I swing up with the putter and it does not grab the ball as much.  Most of these are carbon steel, so they are softer to begin with.

 

Also, I would putt with a queue ball and granite face if it made putts better.  Feel is worthless to me.

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38 minutes ago, Grsl said:

It’s all marketing. I play professionally and I used a 6 iron shaft in my putter lol.  No reason to pay 400 dollars for a putter shaft. It’s all marketing it’s a joke what they think of to get people to believe stuff. You can sell anything to a golfer.  They made me try and change driver heads but I was like no if it’s not broke don’t fix it.  The best one I think is face milling just because it looks cool lol.  Why I will never sell one of my putters with a face mill.   

I am in the process of buying LAB putters with each of their shafts, across the different head models.  I am going to start making videos with real data soon to either prove or disprove this with the help of a Capto.  
 

This has been debated endlessly here without any real data.  I’m working on giving real data to truly answer this soon.

 

and I have no doubt that in your experience you are crushing it with the 6 iron shaft lol, that’s a cool flex 

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59 minutes ago, Grsl said:

It’s all marketing. I play professionally and I used a 6 iron shaft in my putter lol.  No reason to pay 400 dollars for a putter shaft. It’s all marketing it’s a joke what they think of to get people to believe stuff. You can sell anything to a golfer.  They made me try and change driver heads but I was like no if it’s not broke don’t fix it.  The best one I think is face milling just because it looks cool lol.  Why I will never sell one of my putters with a face mill.   

What brand/flex iron shaft are you using in your putter?

Have Fun - Ready Golf - Repair Divots/Marks - FORE

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8 hours ago, manVSgolf said:

If you get one club completely correct, it should be your putter.  I’m actually going to argue the exact opposite - why would you allow yourself to play with a piece of equipment in a facet of the game that requires precision to be played with something that is less precise?  Why wouldn’t that be worth as much as a driver, that you may use 13x a round instead of 25-35x? (And would last you a lifetime when treated well).  
 

Even if the $400 shaft is 3% better than a stock steel, that 3% adds up - especially for the most-used club in your bag.

If you are a bad putter and you always aim / stroke it some direction you should not.  A very precise instrument would assure all those putts will miss.  If you have an instrument with a high degree of variability, of your 100% bad putts, some will go in.  Sounds like a plan.

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22 hours ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

What brand/flex iron shaft are you using in your putter?

Sorry it only lets me post so many a day. It’s dynamic golf x100 tour issue. I really don’t know if the tour issue does anything. I have had tour issue golf pride grips I didn’t notice anything besides the box it came in lol.   

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23 hours ago, manVSgolf said:

I am in the process of buying LAB putters with each of their shafts, across the different head models.  I am going to start making videos with real data soon to either prove or disprove this with the help of a Capto.  
 

This has been debated endlessly here without any real data.  I’m working on giving real data to truly answer this soon.

 

and I have no doubt that in your experience you are crushing it with the 6 iron shaft lol, that’s a cool flex 

Will be cool to see the data.  But when it comes down to it. It’s what ever gets the ball in the hole with the least amount of hits.  People love chasing numbers now.  Heck if I made more puts with a garden hose for a shaft I would use it. Looks or what fits me doesn’t matter unless it’s going in the hole with fewer strokes.  

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